Mr Lester J Hendershot's magnetic generator.

[mikec_ut]

MK1 continue

I didn't dismiss what you were thinking. I believe the magnet inside coil L6 is in coil L8 but the notion of a magnet in the motor to boost the power and keep the process going is not out a though that should not be looked at.

I have had many patents processed and the patent lawyer takes a good stab at what he thinks is going on and then waits for corrections from the engineer. If the engineer, in the case of Hendershot does not answer then we don't really know if the information we have is very accurate. I have had thoughts that the meg ohm resistor might have been a capacitor instead, but the circuit does not make sense if it was. So to me all things are open for thought.

I had not considered the original motor to be just an off-the-shelf miniature motor. If it was (it would make more sense) it could explain why it only took him 2 week to complete the toy plane modification. which means build all of the coils adjusting them to his unknown magic, fitting them in the space required, modifying the toy plane, etc., etc.

I think the circuit and diagrams we have are just as you have stated, a power unit that drives the motor. Now whether the motor was special or not that I believe is a different issue. I like you have read as much as possible and I decided to replicate what I though was the results of my reading with a few minor changes. I have tried both basket weave and honey comb for coil L8 with a few variations along the way. I posted 2 very blurry pictures of my build with L8 using interleaved basket weave. Of course none of my test resulted in any success.

Not knowing what the collector was for I made mine 2 inch by 3 inch plate of aluminum, attached a flexible strip with a magnetic end piece that hung down to the core of coil L4. I am thinking that the collector which is over the top of coil L4 when energized will draw in the magnetic strip to the core and it then would send this energy or signal or produce something that would go down wire 5 to coil L6 and neutralize the magnet that is the core of L6. Coil L4 would oscillate and release the magnet strip L2 which in turn would break the connection for wire L5 and the bemf of coil L6 would continue the oscillation process. Something like that.

Having the collector plate as a capacitance does make some sense.

The ugly "pencil" drawing is NOT the coil L6 with the magnet as the core but is the combination of L30, L31, L28, etc. This combination of ring magnet, plates and flipper is what made the second version of the toy plane omnidirectional. The patent stated that the only difference between MK1 version 1 and MK1 version 2 was the coils and magnets with coil L8. I was thinking that this second version with the ring magnet has a coil internal to it not external, I could be wrong I will have to look at it again. I thought that in Hilton's book he tries to show different configuration of this part of the device. Too confusing for me at the moment but this version is the ultimate goal. The build I did was the first version that only works in one direction.

I believe your statement "this is NOT radio we are tuning, but magnetic wave reception" is spot on. I don't understand it yet but I think like you that we must just experiment with each section until we find something good happening.

As I stated above that my collector was much larger but maybe the collector/antenna is really the size to receive a signal at 1400Khz.

Lots of questions and not many answers but if we break it down and try to isolate each section we might find something of use.

I do believe that the Magnetic Amplification you are talking about in post #304 is the most likely thing that is happening. I think this group of parts, either version 1 or version 2 is the oscillator and starting point that will make all of this work. The other coils and core are a booster of a magnetic amplifier to get the signal up to operational voltage. I have not found out how the part work together yet but I think this is where some serious experimentation needs to be done.

The adventure continues.

[morpher44]

magnetic amplification...

Well as I describe to you some of the thoughts I've been having this week
about the MK1, and putting them into written words, I am flooded
with more thoughts.

Suppose the magnetic STRIP hanging down is the
FIRST "simpathetic" receiver of the 1400Khz signal.
It is a very "weak" magnetic strip that is dangling physically
on a "spring mounting block". Think of this as similar to
a "guitar" pick up or musical instrument pick up device ...
allowed to vibrate mechanically as it is affected by subtle
magnetic influences. A little thing like this:
http://www.indigo.com/images/product/1137.jpg
often shown to students when discussing the Earth's field.
This little pre-magnetized strip will orient itself relative
to the Earth's field and will also vibrate with incoming
reception of magnetic waves.
Next to this you place a BETTER pickup coil. That pick up
coil, almost like a microphone, is a MAGNET with a coil
wrapped around it -- the same way a SPEAKER is wired,
w/o its diaphragm. This "magnet-in-coil" pick-up will HEAR
the oscillations in the tiny strip and induce current.
That current can then be sent to two counter opposing
honeycomb coils, that will BUCK, and increase the effect ...
amplify it. Positive FEEDBACK!

How about this idea?

[morpher44]

MK1: withdrawl of "magnet in motor" idea.

I would like to withdrawl my idea that the "magnet is in the motor".

Certainly a spinning magnet IN a motor would have a little bit
better chance of helping with power generation.
But, here are some statements from the "patent" application
that I think defend the notion that the magnet is just sitting
there in a honeycomb coil OUTSIDE the motor.
These from "From the Archives of Lester J. Hendershot",
compiled & Published by Mark M. Hendershot:

quote:
"I use a small collector 1, preferably a small metallic plate horizontally
disposed and having a downwardly extending flexible strip 2 of
magnetic material terminating opposite a core 3 of a first
coil to be attached therby. The strip 2 has soldered to it one end of
a copper wire 5, which may or may not extend to the collector proper 8,
whose other end is soldered to the middle of the inner winding or layer
of a second coil 6. This coil is composed of ??? turns of no. ???
insulated copper wire, & is provided with a permantently magnetic
core 7, and is preferably parallel to the first coil."

So this does it for me. The magnet is in a coil, and then situated
WITHIN the honeycomb coils. I don't think he would have worded
it this way if the magnet coil was INSIDE the motor.
YET, there is the mystery if this MK1 even needs a motor modification
or not. It may not. Perhaps the motor modification was something
ELSE he was tinkering with -- totally unrelated to his plane.
If that is so, his plane may have just a regular DC (or AC motor).
I would tend to think it would be just a DC motor. Further, if you
look at these tiny motors, they would be NEAR impossible to CRACK
open and re-wire or modify. This is pretty "small" stuff. You would
have to be one of those guys who can pull SHIPS together in a bottle
to do it. So tend to think perhaps his plane motor is off-the-shelf,
and this weird MK1 circuit is the power unit.

Another thing to pay attention to in the above quote is that
the little strip that hangs down is ALSO magnetic material.
I take this to mean that the strip was PRE-MAGNETIZED, perhaps
by rubbing the metal strip with a magnet -- ala Leedskalnin --
to make it magnetic.

So this little strip hangs down. I can't quite visualize what this
would look like. First thing of note ... the so called METAL PLATE
its attached to is a sort of antenna. It is not a magnetic antenna.
And the fact its a plate, and not a pole antenna or simple wire
antenna, seems to indicate its picking up energy with capacitance.

The ugly "pencil" drawing is hard to make heads or tails out of
when looking at the honeycomb coil. The little wire dangling down,
from that strip appears to me to be entering the center of a ring
magnet that is oriented with its faces oriented the same as the solenoid
above... and positioned NOT in the center of the honeycomb
coil but off to the LEFT side with this view. In other words,
if you were to FACE the front of the plane, and see into it,
one of the magnets faces (be it north or south) would be facing
back @ you.

There are TWO obvious ways to wrap a coil around such a ring
magnet. One way would be the traditional way to wrap a toroid,
and the other way would be to go 90 degrees and wrap the coil
around the diameter. I would Guess the coil is the latter,
so that the power going thru the coil can ADD Flux or SUBTRACT
Flux from the magnet inside. My guess.

One thought I had last night in terms of Hendershot being a
hoaxer is that IF you put "pen" batteries INSIDE the two solenoids
on either side of the honeycomb coil, and if this strip-solenoid
thing was a relay-buzzer, then you could convert the battery
DC into AC in this way, and pulse the coils, and have power.
YET, it seems unlikely that Hendershot could FOOL the army with
this hoax ... so I have to think he wasn't a hoaxer.

The solenoid above the magnet should see almost NO power
according to what I know ... especially with that megohm resistor
in-circuit with it. You would need a lot of energy pouring down
that magnetic strip and entering into the coil structure below
for it to light up.

I made such a honeycomb coil last weekend and it does
self oscillate, but the voltage is down in the millivolts to microvolts.
It doesn't respond very much to magnets because its an air coil,
so a magnet being inside would only add just a tiny bit of flux
if it were brought into oscillation.
Also, in his drawing the honeycomb coil doesn't appear to be TIGHT
around the magnet ... There appears to be lots of space here,
to put little toy men sitting around in a circle like its a hot tub,
holding army gear.

In the Barry Hilton material, the magnet is lying FLAT, but
raised up to the middle of the honeycomb coil.
Both orientations should be experimented with I suppose.
The "flat" orientation" would be sending its field UP and DOWN
within the plane.
http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/images/pic5-1.gif
Vertical axis instead of Longitudinal axis.
I would think the "latter" is correct and the patent wording
mentioned longitudinal axis.
Barry Hilton also speculates the honeycomb is no more than 3 inch.
I started to do a 4 inch coil and found this to be pretty SMALL to deal
with. I went to 5 inch, which was more comfortable.
With 3 inch to work with, you would need real fine wire, lots of turns,
and steady hands and good eyesight -- or get a machine to wind it.

So my thinking of late is that we need to just experiment
with the magnet-in-coil, and the honeycomb and see what
sort of energy input will stimulate that structure.
If the magnet-in-coil is the so called "tuner", I have to imagine
this is NOT radio we are tuning, but magnetic wave reception.

The Earth's field is 50uT or so, yes, but the oscillations occuring
are down in the nano-Tesla range. YET, there is a BIG effect
from the 50uT that should be considered. All the incoming energy
to the planet, be they electrons or protons, will SPIN due to this
50uT influence. The frequency of this spin, if electrons, works out
to be 1400Khz. You can pick up this signal on radio as NOISE.
But, you can also pick up this signal "magnetically" with a
loop-of-wire style antenna. The advantage to the "magnetic"
reception is that the signal is probably MORE current ... more gain.
So instead of a quarter-wave radio antenna == dipole ==
that is really long for 1400Khz, you need instead a loop of wire
that can be designed to pick it up. If that coil was an air coil,
the LOOP would still be HUGE. But, if you could CHEAT a bit
and receive that frequency from a "sympathetic" magnetic
object, then the "gain" might be there for a bit of power reception.

Let us suppose, therefore, that we want to tune our honeycomb
coil(s) for 1400Khz -- in terms of there self-resonance.
I don't have the formulas for this style coil. Some searching
around for that would be in order.
If it was a solenoid-style coil, with say 100pF of self-capacitance,
you would need a coil of about 129.24uH or so.
On a 3inch diameter structure, with say 1 inch width of winding area,
you would need ONLY 24 turns to get an inductance about that
big. For honeycomb, you would probably need MORE turns because
honeycomb does use MORE wire, zigging up, and then down again...
but you get the idea... about this much wire. Not much.

Why the STRIP of magnetic material hovering near a solenoid above?
Puzzling....
I think for this we would need to build it and mess around and see
whats up.

[mikec_ut]

MK1 Discussion

When looking at the toy plane it is really hard to determine what is behind the propeller, cowling, up to the opening that we see one end of coil L8. Your perspective gives new light.

Your idea about using guide wires to fly the plane is a circle is good, I had one of those but it used a small gas engine. Remember that the first model could only work in one/two directions with the pickup coils facing North/South or East/West. It stopped working if the direction changed. This was truly a toy and I can not imagine that the motor had much torque to give it to his son. I have had a prop hit my finger a few times but I was older than the pictures show Hendershot's son, it strung bad. I would think that his son just held it and walk around playing until the plane became the focus of attention. It was then mounted and left on the table to show visitors.

The second version of the MK1 that was a redesign of the pickup coils system could face any direction using coil L29 replacing L6. This version brings up a whole different group of ideas and guesses. But this second version is the one that was replicated at the air field in a bigger size. IMHO it could be made in any size, so the coil sizes do not matter that much but they need to be is some kind of symbiosis type of relationship.

I going to stick with the first version for awhile to see if Hendershot's first toy plane version (oriented in one direction only) can be understood. I made coil L8 in only the CW direction but with your gentle reminder I should have tried both methods and others. Back to winding another set of coils. Thanks for the insight.

I also like your idea about the motor could possible be part of coil L8 or something like that. It exposes other paths to wander. Just keep the good ideas coming.

[morpher44]

response to mikec_ut

@morpher

Most of the Induction Compasses back in the 30s - 40s use the air flow from the airplane to rotate a spinning magnet that induced the surrounding coil to indicate which was true north.

By looking at the picture of the toy plane I could not tell if the coil towards the nose of the plane was a honey comb or basket weave (looked more basket weave). I could not tell if the two pickup coils L13 and L14 were on the inside or outside. Some of the Inductions Compasses design of that time had them in both positions. One of the statements made Barry Hilton's book indicated that these coils were inclusive, could this mean within L8 and not on the outside.

You seem to be having more success that I am having but my time is limited at the moment and I still have more research on associated matters of the 30s and 40s in hopes that it will help me understand what knowledge Hendershot was trying to use.

Coils L19, L22, L25 I believe are a resonant magnatic amplifer to boost the voltage to a usable level.

You were speculating that the 3 inch coil did not have enough room behind the motor of the toy plane.

Part of my research was taking the picture and its perspective and depth and flattening it out and measuring all of the inside components as well as the wheels, wings, etc. My base assumption was that the wood stand was 1/4 inch thick. This would make the wheels about 2 inches in diameter and the width of the plane could contain a coil not quite 3 inches in diameter but there would be no room for the 2 coils on the outside (L13, L14).

I do like your idea about part of the circuit is the motor but not the one in Figure 2.3 that is way to big to fit in the space provided behind the propeller and cowling of the toy plane.

The adventure continues.

re: induction compass
Actually most of them "didn't" have a spinning magnet.
Rather, just a spinning coil. The Earth's magnetic field was
used with the spinning coil to generate a small amount of power
to move the needle. No magnet necessary ... its FREE ... the Earth's
field. Hendershot was trying to use pre-magnetized cores --
or little magnets -- to give a TRUE North reading ... and so he's
one of the guys attempting to put magnets into this invention...yes.

re: coil towards the nose of the plane
No that coil is definitely wound lattice style .. and NOT
basket weave. For basket weave, you would need vertical pegs
around the cylinder to wind into.
In the picture you can almost count the turns on the outer layer.
I count 5 or so downward sloping wires along the LEFT side.
Definitely "lattice" style. Interesting that the Barry Hilton
material doesn't call out that these side-mounted solenoids
are to be honeycomb. Hendershot's model looks pretty "neat".
He may have just wound those that way too to make it pretty.
They are a nice coil winding style -- less self capacitance.
It has a small number of turns of thicker plastic covered wire,
20AWG, maybe 12 turns or so. These likely have iron cores.
These solenoids don't look like they are very big. My guess
would be they are no bigger than 1/2 inch diameter spools,
5/8 inch tall. I make the plane's wheels to be bigger than you.
I'm thinking 3 1/2 inch diameter wheels. The NUT on the wheel
is probably a standard 5/8 inch nut.
The bobbin coils inside the structure of the plane look to me to be
about the size of sewing bobbins: 1 1/8" diameter, 1 3/4" tall.

re: Hendershot's Knowledge
I have started to realize I shouldn't be thinking in terms of
resonance and radio so much... and rather should be thinking
in terms of magnetic fields, and solenoids, and currents....
He probably experimented quite a bit with induced currents
and the solenoid's magnetic field to current relationship is the
important one to master. The number of turns would be
completely dictated by things related to RPMs, field strength,
current in wires, etc.

re: Coils L19, L22, L25
Good idea about this being an amplifier. I had that thought too.
He seems to have this pattern replicated over and over again almost
FRACTALy. Coil spinning one way ... some other coil in center oriented
a different way ... coil spinning the other way. His technology here
is to use this STRUCTURE to amplify the effect. Yes.
This is a MAGNETOMETER structure ... and induces current when
the fields in this structure are "imbalanced". Notice how one coil
is CLOSE and touching the central bobbin coil and the other is not.
There is an intentional imbalance here -- no symmetry.
That works!! I tried it... You can induce power this way ... if you
have a steady pulsing waveform to bring your cores almost saturated
and back again. Remember this predates transistors, so we want
to use the BH curve here for amplification ... similar to transistor.

re: honeycomb coil.
Well, I see your point about it possibly NOT fitting in the pully coil
in the motor. That steel pully might be a 3in diameter, which FITS
the dimensions. You could wrap a coil around it in the honeycomb style.
I'm not sure how he would do it. Perhaps by attaching wodden dowels
as spokes around both flat surfaces, wiring up the coil, gluing it,
then removing the dowels.
This coil could be THE working coil to drive the motor... since
there is no other except the one on the pully. Interesting that
this honeycomb coil has TWO layers ... one going CW ... another
(I speculate) going CCW. They "buck" in other words ... with the
magnet-in-coil wired BETWEEN them.
I like this idea ... although another possibility is that the honey comb
coil is UNDER the motor .. UNDER the cock-pit and between
the left and right solenoids that we see in the front side there.

I remember toys of that time period would be connected
to CORDS. The child would stand in the center and by pulling
or releasing the 2 cords, they could control the plane to make
it go up and down as it spun in a circle. I wonder if this model
was intended to be used this way ... or if it was just a thing
the boy could push around on the ground with a spinning prop.
It seems that 1800RPM would be a little child "unsafe" w/o
parental supervision.

I can't see this producing very much power unless there is
high-velocity SPIN of that motor. 1800RPM is 30Hz. We need
to be creating waveforms at around that speed (or faster).

Also, it amazes me there are no capacitors. Barry Hilton
does mention there may be other parts of the circuit we don't
have the "page" for. There MUST have been capacitors too --
I'm speculating.

[mikec_ut]

MK1 Idea

@morpher

Looking at Figure 3.2 of Barry Hilton's book, I was thinking similar things. Reseaching Induction Compasses and Magnetic Amplifiers I have concluded that the coil within L8a/b wrapped around the magnetic core is a pulser of some type. The center tap will allow one side of the coil to become north and the other side to become south. Depending on the orintation of the magnetic core this could nullify the effects of the magnet for a shot time and when the signal would reverse and release the nullified energy (bemf) to give a pulse to the circuit. But if this is part of the motor section then the effect would increase over a short time as the motor obtained it operating speed, then become self regenerative.

Most of the Induction Compasses back in the 30s - 40s use the air flow from the airplane to rotate a spinning magnet that induced the surrounding coil to indicate which was true north.

By looking at the picture of the toy plane I could not tell if the coil towards the nose of the plane was a honey comb or basket weave (looked more basket weave). I could not tell if the two pickup coils L13 and L14 were on the inside or outside. Some of the Inductions Compasses design of that time had them in both positions. One of the statements made Barry Hilton's book indicated that these coils were inclusive, could this mean within L8 and not on the outside.

You seem to be having more success that I am having but my time is limited at the moment and I still have more research on associated matters of the 30s and 40s in hopes that it will help me understand what knowledge Hendershot was trying to use.

Coils L19, L22, L25 I believe are a resonant magnatic amplifer to boost the voltage to a usable level.

You were speculating that the 3 inch coil did not have enough room behind the motor of the toy plane.

Part of my research was taking the picture and its perspective and depth and flattening it out and measuring all of the inside components as well as the wheels, wings, etc. My base assumption was that the wood stand was 1/4 inch thick. This would make the wheels about 2 inches in diameter and the width of the plane could contain a coil not quite 3 inches in diameter but there would be no room for the 2 coils on the outside (L13, L14).

I do like your idea about part of the circuit is the motor but not the one in Figure 2.3 that is way to big to fit in the space provided behind the propeller and cowling of the toy plane.

The adventure continues.

[morpher44]

Hendershot's Motor...

More thoughts along the lines that the honeycomb coil for the MK1
is INSIDE the motor....

There is a famous device called the Homopolar generator
(also known as the unipolar generator).
This device is non-intuitive because it generates DC current,
from a constant magnetic field ... and a spinning copper disk.
DC currents are pulled from the AXIS ... and the EDGE of the disk.
Spin the disk faster in the constant magnetic field, more current.

Some speculate these are used to power up gigantic RAIL GUNs,
since such guns need lots of current..

Let is suppose that instead of a DISK, we had a RING magnet.
Let us also suppose that instead of taking power from the edge
of the disk and its axis, we have a coil wrapped around the magnet.
The magnet (with coil around it), can be put into a motor structure
and made to SPIN at high RPMs. Intuition would tell us that since
the magnet and the coil are fixed together and spinning together
that currents will NOT be induced in the coil. YET ... in reality,
there are MORE magnetic fields @ play here. There are the magnets
in the motor itself to content with ... and there is the Earth's field.
Let us suppose that the RING magnet IN the MOTOR was oriented
so that its NORTH face and SOUTH face are along the axis of spin.
The magnets in the motor structure would not SEE or FEEL the
drag from this RING magnet since it is oriented at right-angles
to their push and pull. Precision will be important here so as
not to have this RING magnet wobble in the structure as it spins
on its axis. Wobble will DRAG the motor down.

I propose that currents WILL be induced in a coil around such a
ring magnet, just as you find in the homopolar generator.
Further, the magnetic field that can be tapped can be
parallel with the axis of rotation. Orient the axis of rotation
along the Earth's field, and the MOST power from the homopolar
generator inside your motor will be realized.

The Theory seems sound.... Let's make it....

Hendersho't motor therefore, may pre-date DePalma's N-machine....but
use similar concepts.

[morpher44]

MK1 Idea

Over the weekend I made a honeycomb coil on a cool-whip plastic
container.

http://www.addictedtosaving.com/wp-c...2/11/free1.jpg

I figured out the math and wrote a little program so that I could get
the pyramid angle for wire crossing around this shape.
The algorithm I used calculated that I need two rows of 29 pegs,
seperated by 1.125 inches.
To wrap, you need to skip 3 each time... i.e. skip over two
and bend up or down on the 3rd peg. I used 2 inch NAILS as pegs,
and LEFT THEM in for now to provide additional ferromagnetic material
in the coil structure.

I put a first layer of 100 feet of wire, wound clockwise, looking down
into the container. This is the first coil, L8A-8B.
I then wound a second 100 feet (or so), this one counter clock-wise.
Going with the idea that Hendershot is doing several magnetometer,
amplifications, each coil is to be bucking.

I've experimented with this coil, and a cow magnet wound with its
own coil inside. Powering this circuit is the back EMF from a relay.
I can use several different types of relays but decided to go with
a 12v relay. Magnets can be held against the relay for tuning.

It WORKS!

There is not a lot of power here, but enough to power an LED,
after going thru a bridge rectifier and have a 2200uf CAP for line
filtering.

To run a small motor, I had to power it with about 18v (2 9v batteries).

I also tried hooking up some transformers to the power line,
in the Hendershot way, L25, L22, L19, per the Barry Hilton book.
Interestingly, these serve to either STABALIZE the waveforms,
or make them go chaotic, depending on other variables.
I'm scratching my head over this a bit.

Anyway, I was looking @ this schematic more carefully, and suddenly
it occurs to me ONE possible intepretation of this crazy schematic.

If you look at the close-up of the ONE photo of the plane,
you will notice that the GUTs of the plane look very much like this
arrangement of bobbin coils, and a BIG old motor with a prop on it.

YET, the coil that looks like the so called honeycomb coil
is exposed on the front open section of the plane. This would
be the location of one of the two solenoids that are suppose
to be on either side of the honeycomb coil. It appears to be wound
with AWG 20 plastic covered wire, and have not many turns....
On the circuit diagram, these solenoids, on either side of the
coil with the magnet in it, are wired to a Meg ohm resistor.
That seems odd. Hardly any current would flow through this ODD
section of the circuit.

It suddenly dawned on me that this HAS TO BE the feedback
part of the circuit. These are pickup coils situated on either
side of the MOTOR with the prop, picking up ITS inductive WAKE.
The blocking resistor causes an imbalance so that the energy of these
pickup coils will PULSE ... ever so gently, the metalic structure
behind ... to keep it semi-saturated (a trick used in magnetic
amplifiers). Barry Hilton's book is speculating this is some sort of
gigahertz receiver. I think it has to be something FAR easier to understand.
Its simply two pick up coils near a spinning motor .. used
to produce a small magnetic pulse in the metal behind the motor.

This now calls into question, in my mind anyway, this honeycomb,
magnet thing.
WHAT IF this part of the diagram IS IN THE MOTOR ... and
NOT a honeycomb coil outside it.
We have in the previous pages many pages showing how a motors
was altered to BRING OUT one extra WIRE on a slip-ring from
the center of a pully COIL in the motor.
What if the pully coil is the so called HONEY-COMB coil, with magnet
inside. As the motor spins, the pully-coil spins, the magnet inside
spins.

So what I am proposing as a possible interpretation here is that
Figure 3.2 of Barry Hilton's book, with L8A-B, the tuner coil around
a magnet, etc. could be a detector/collector circuit put into the
pully coil structure of the motor itself.
There are 3 connections OUT of the motor, the two brushes,
and the 3rd so called "antenna" lead.

This weaker magnet in there is being SPUN inside a structure with
bigger magnets around it. As it washes by the various polls
of these magnets, the coil around IT will induce current. That
current is allowed to go in three different branches ...
the antenna "W5" ... and the pully coil -- out towards the brushes
of the motor.

If we interpret things this way, another interesting possibility exists.
The so called feedback circuit that is gently pulsing the coil cores
using L4 and the side "pickup" solenoids, has a metal
resonator plate hovering near it with an AIR GAP.
This resonator is on a "spring" mounting block, implying it can be
PULLED toward the core ... like a RELAY. If it makes a connection
to the metal core (or gets close enough for the dielectric break down
of the air), the ENERGY from the CENTER of the coil around the magnet
deep inside the spinning motor can release a electric SPARK
directly into the metalic core. Such a JOLT would excite those
cores and make them ring for a time... with power being provided
BACK to the motor itself and the load (if attached).

The Barry Hilton books seemed to have a disconnect between
the Figure 2.3 discussion about the mods to the motor,
and this MK1 circuit. But are they NOT suppose to be used WITH
each other.?

And further, where would this great big 3-inch honeycomb coil BE in the
plane? There doesn't seem to be room behind the motor.
So I am speculating ... it is IN the motor.

Make sense GUYS/GALS?

[morpher44]

uses for the Tate device

Hi Guys/Gals,

Here are some uses for the Tate device.
1. Easy conversion from low-power-high-voltage AC signals to DC.
2. Easy way of measuring power with an added known resistance
and a voltmeter and a calculator and knowledge of Ohms law.
3. A great tool for studying "subtle" ambient energies that are AC
or pulse in nature.

As such, you could use it for studying Hendershot's device, or any other
device your tinkering with that produces AC or pulsed DC.
You just need to take care not to burn your diodes up.

For example, suppose there was a great big aluminum siding WALL
or a large children's slide. You might be able to attached the
Tate's antenna line to these, and then attached the negative to
GROUND, and then measure voltage. On a day that has
plenty of Sun, Wind, and dry weather, these large capacitors
should be charged up, and want yet another path to ground ...
thru your little TATE box.

So really, you don't want a single wire that goes high up,
necessarily. What you really want is a large surface area
for received particle impacts ala Tesla's patent.
That large surface area should be ISOLATED from ground, so that
your TATE is the ONLY path to ground it finds.

[hywystr]

L. H. Generator

Hey Morpher

I do not think I would want to be old Ben's assistant either. E-bay would be a great place to look for a signal generator as well as an oscilliscope.

I was kind of thinking about trying to combine the Tessla/ Tate ideas with the Hendershot generator to get it to fire up. I know where I would hook up the outputs on the Tate but not sure where I would feed them into the Hendershot device. Plus the Tate puts out DC and I think the Hendershot does AC. With the pole only at 14 ft high I still was able to generate around 6 volts. I do not know if this would be worthwhile. Just for grins this evening I attached two aluminum ground connectors to the aluminum sheets I lined the two tank coils with to see if I could soak up some power from the great beyond. I connected L-i into it as well as the 500 MFD capacitor in the center of the coils. I figure what do I have to lose? The worst that could happen is nothing will happen. I thought I would let it charge for awhile then check it. So do you have any thoughts where I would feed the Tate device into the Hendershot device?

Bob

Hi Bob,
Yeah the balloon idea sounds interesting but dangerous.
I may do that some day. I found a video of a guy who did that
to power his crystal radio ... and he had enough juice to
drive a PA system from his radio .. no batteries necessary.
This is a dangerous experiment.
I found an old book in Ben Franklin and learned that the way
Ben Franklin did this experiment, is he had OTHERs hold the wire,
and observed that some discharges were enough to
"knock a man over". How would you like to be Ben's assistant?
Wikipedia states 30 volts per foot (100v/m).
You may not have this much because of resistance in wire,
and other factors ... but the danger is there. One wrong move
and you could be in trouble. Lightning arrestors are appropriate.

>I do not have a signal generator and haven't a clue where to get one.
I got mine on ebay ... 2Mhz, 4 wave patterns, works great ... cheap.
This is a "must have" device along with an oscilloscope.
A spectrum analyzer would be good too, or a scope that can do that too.
That would be more pricey.

Btw, a poor-man's pulse generator is done easily with a Relay.
All you do is configure the relay to be a buzzer.
Then connect the leads from the coil of the relay over to another
coil arrangement. You can put a CAP in line to have only AC pass
if the 2nd coil being attached perturbs the relay too much.
When the relay disengages, the BACK EMF from the relay's coil
is directly connected to your circuit under test and gets a HUGE
voltage spike. You can further TUNE what frequency you want
by putting a STRONG magnet near the relay to make it buzz
faster or slower depending upon polarity. I've tried this to great
success and also have found that you can run a 12Volt relay
this way using a 1.5Volt D cell. The magnet provides the EXTRA
kick if put in just the right location near the relay. You have to
move it around and find the sweet spot. This is very Hendershot-esk.

>I do appreciate your ideas on this. Bob
No problem. This is fun stuff.

[morpher44]

reply to Bob

Hi Bob,
Yeah the balloon idea sounds interesting but dangerous.
I may do that some day. I found a video of a guy who did that
to power his crystal radio ... and he had enough juice to
drive a PA system from his radio .. no batteries necessary.
This is a dangerous experiment.
I found an old book in Ben Franklin and learned that the way
Ben Franklin did this experiment, is he had OTHERs hold the wire,
and observed that some discharges were enough to
"knock a man over". How would you like to be Ben's assistant?
Wikipedia states 30 volts per foot (100v/m).
You may not have this much because of resistance in wire,
and other factors ... but the danger is there. One wrong move
and you could be in trouble. Lightning arrestors are appropriate.

>I do not have a signal generator and haven't a clue where to get one.
I got mine on ebay ... 2Mhz, 4 wave patterns, works great ... cheap.
This is a "must have" device along with an oscilloscope.
A spectrum analyzer would be good too, or a scope that can do that too.
That would be more pricey.

Btw, a poor-man's pulse generator is done easily with a Relay.
All you do is configure the relay to be a buzzer.
Then connect the leads from the coil of the relay over to another
coil arrangement. You can put a CAP in line to have only AC pass
if the 2nd coil being attached perturbs the relay too much.
When the relay disengages, the BACK EMF from the relay's coil
is directly connected to your circuit under test and gets a HUGE
voltage spike. You can further TUNE what frequency you want
by putting a STRONG magnet near the relay to make it buzz
faster or slower depending upon polarity. I've tried this to great
success and also have found that you can run a 12Volt relay
this way using a 1.5Volt D cell. The magnet provides the EXTRA
kick if put in just the right location near the relay. You have to
move it around and find the sweet spot. This is very Hendershot-esk.

>I do appreciate your ideas on this. Bob
No problem. This is fun stuff.

[hywystr]

Tate Power Module.

I believe you are correct in the device I put together as a Tate Power Module. It looks about half the size though in the diagram you referred me to. Meaning half the capacitors and diodes. The people I got that from said the higher the collector was the more voltage you receive. That was what I observed also. I thought 30 feet was high enough. They mentioned hooking the collector to a baloon and running it up a couple of hundred feet. They said it generated quite a charge. Look out Ben Franklin. The man claiming to have received 36 dc volts corresponds to what I received. As for what you have written I will need to take some time and re-read it. Most of it I follow. I do not have a signal generator and haven't a clue where to get one.

From playing around with the Tate device I have a great ground. As I said it is a 3/8" th thick 4x4 steel plate buried four feet down. I have four # 8 stranded copper insulated wires attached to it and about four feet of wire coming out of the ground.

I was playing around with the device this evening and linked the two L-1 coils together and tried to introduce 6 vdc into the coil to see if I could detect any voltage. It did not generate an inductive voltage in the other two coils. I tried introducing the capacitors into the mix to no avail. I trust this is what you are alluding to with the signal generator. I noticed in something I read today, maybe from you, about a weak magnet as opposed to a strong magnet on the solenoid part. I have a relatively weak cylinder magnet with north and south poles. I have the north pole on the left. I do not have it mounted down and have tried switching the poles. I also have a square bar magnet that is very strong. Unfortunately the poles are on the long faces and not the ends. It too did not seem to help.

I totally agree though if we cannot receive any power to the basket weave coils there is no way to use the rest of the device. It is kind of late to do any more this evening. I am in Denver. I will look up signal generators on the net.

I do appreciate your ideas on this. Bob

Hi Bob,
I think the 30-foot reception device your talking about is the Tate
Ambient Power module invented in the 70s.
tate ambient power module
Correct? I use that too. Very handy.
re: Barry Hilton's Book
I found it on scribd. There are other "book" websites too that you might
find it. It's "free" after you register with those sites, creating username
and password. scribd might be charging people money now...not sure.

re: flat-lined measurements...
A coil hooked to itself is a bit difficult to measure.
This may not be the right approach after all. But and wiring
L1 to the cap may be correct. It's hard to tell from the drawing.
A tank circuit makes sense, but the frequency be well BELOW
the AM band, but far above the frequency of the magnetic oscillator.

And hooking up to the complete device is probably not a worthwhile
approach YET until we know more about the frequencies, and tuning
requirements, and tolerances, and "schematic". The "schematic"
itself is problematic, because no one knows which of the many ones
out there are "real" .. if any.

So ignoring the schematic... and ignoring all the "plethora" of coils here,
you should be able to connect the antenna lead of the TATE Power
Module to the cylinder capacitor you've made. Ground the TATE
on the negative output. You must have a ground ... and the better
ground you have ... the better you'll do. I can't stress the importance
of this ground for good results with the TATE. The diodes in the TATE
are 1N34. Different gemanium diodes will probably work too. There
is a trade off with respect to how much juice flows thru versus
how delicate the diode is. I've burned out these DIODEs easily
while messing around ... so this is a delicate circuit.

Put across the TATE output a known load ... such as 10K ohm resistor.
Measure voltage across this 10K ohm. Knowing the voltage and the 10K,
you can derive POWER simply using Ohms law.
Our challenge here now is to get that cylinder to receive power.
STEP 1.

Just sitting there on your table, if that cylinder is isolated, you might
get maybe 2mv of voltages (without the 10k .. just with the volt meter --
depending upon your meter). IF there was a coil oscillating NEAR
the cylinder or IN the cylinder or AROUND the cylinder, you will notice
the voltage CLIMB out of the TATE.
So, hook up a signal generator to one of the coils on the Hendershot
coil and pump various frequencies thru that coil. There will be
ONE frequency you find that will MAXIMIZE the power to your TATE
with the 10k load. That will be the resonance freq (Fr) for that coil &
capacitor arrangement. Energy is flowing from signal generator, to coil,
across the air to cylinder cap, and then off to the TATE.
Do this same exercise for each of the coils in turn and right down what
Fr is for each of them.
Now, with all those Fr values in hand, you have an understanding of
what each of those coils would need to be oscillating at to get
the standing waves you need in the capacitor to produce the MOST
power to the TATE.

This approach also gives you the ability to TUNE any of these coils
that are suppose to be the "same" in terms of Fr. If two of the
Hendershot coils are the same number of turns, then they should be
giving you the same Fr. However, due to inaccuracies that accumulate
during winding, you can be off a little. So to make the Fr
match within some tolerance, you can add to or CUT wire off of one
of the coils to make it exactly match the other. I think L3 and L4
are suppose to match, for example. Given that the diameter is the
same for L1 and L2, then using the TURN-ratio between L3 and L4,
you can extrapolate what their Fr values SHOULD be ... and then
tune them accordingly.
Now go over the the 2nd Hendershot coil, and make everything match
your first Hendershot coil, "tuning-wise". Write all this down.
After you have all that done, this is the time possibly to seal things
in wax or paint with varnish or something to HOLD things firmly
in place "post tuning".

Here is where circuit analysis comes in. We need to devise a circuit
schematic that is similar to Hendershot's various schematics,
that maintains proper phasing and frequencies such that we can
get the MOST power to our cylinder devices ... and back again...
into the coils ... and so forth. The TATE would not normally be
LEFT connected to the cylinders after this tuning step.
We just had that connection as a way to help us SEE what was
occurring in this part of the TANK circuit. We could have connected
it to any of the coils too.

So one thought I have about this capacitor is that like a
Van de Graaff generator, if we can set things up so that charges
BUILD on this hand-made capacitor, because of all the oscillating
electro-magnetic fields from the Hendershot coil,
we probably do NOT want to
be connecting anything to that capacitor. It should be isolated
and allowed to "charge up". Think about the statements made
about the Hendershot device and how if its not made properly,
the foil capacitor would suffer BURNs from discharges.
The dielectric constant for Air is such that you need pretty high
voltages to get that sort of damage going .. that sort of arcing.
With a Van de Graaff effect, you certainly can.
There will be large back EMF pluses from the magnet-bar-solenoid
thing, assuming we could make that go. In fact, not knowing
how to make that go doesn't stop you. All you need is some
sort of "chopper" circuit to ACT-LIKE what that thing should be doing.
So with a 555-timer-circuit creating a pulse to an automotive
ignition coil ("circuits found on the web"), for example, you could
dial up and down various frequencies controlled by the timer and
produce a chopping DC voltage in square-wave form into your
Hendershot coils. DC square waves are IDEAL because they have
really RAPID pole reversals -- which make solenoids and magnets
go crazy. But all the big CAPS that Hendershot have are an attempt
to smooth that way down to nice sine waves ... and tweek phasing,
and isolate AC from DC, etc.
So, given that you know all the frequencies involved, we now
need to reverse engineer the schematic (w/o the magnet-bar-solenoid).
Determine what is the best way, by trying various hook up choices
for the Hendershot schematic, and see what works best and what
doesn't. Only then, after determining that part, would I next
try to get the magnet-bar-solenoid to do anything.
Make sense?

[morpher44]

receive any power from the magnetic field of the earth

Bob wrote:
>receive any power from the magnetic field of the earth

So I've been thinking about this ... and I think we really want to work
in several stages here.
Just thinking about this problem from a Physics standpoint,
a Physicist will LAUGH at the idea of anyone trying to get power
from the Earth's field. There is 40 to 60uTeslas here. You would
have to SPIN your coil or magnet pretty darn fast, "mechanically",
to generate anything useful. OR, the SIZE of your spinning structure
would need to be megalythic -- Pyramid of Giza size.
This is not practical for the home DIY project.

But, if we were to scale down the physical magnet to something
modest, like 1mTesla magnet, we can clearly make that magnet
spin for a time as it responds to the Earth's field. And a nearby
coil will induce current .. but not very much.

So my thinking here is that we are looking for SEVERAL inventions
that are inter-operating to create a positive feedback situation w/o
violating any of the laws of physics.
So aspects of the design may use "pre-magnetized" material,
and the Earth's field - yes -- and an understanding of the VECTORs
of those fields and orientation of our appliance. It sounds like
"magic", but its physics.
Other aspects of the design may be using a Van De Graff like effect
where coils near LARGE capacitor structures are building charges
onto the surfaces of a diamagnetic material that is being
"massaged", via Lenz's Law, with nearby coils.
The charges are being "collected" from the ambient environment
with very low power, and the time to do this may be a little bit of time depending upon the timing constants involved of the circuit.
As the charges build up, you can create an oscillation that reaches
some equilibrium in terms of power-output depending upon the
rate at which you can collect relative to the rate at which you
consume the power. If you consume less that you collect, it will build
until your circuit, due to capacitance and resistance, imposes an "attenuation" limit,
dropping down the other side of the resonance curve.

So the various challanges here are:
* make a very very low power van de Graff generator
* make a very very low power generator to power the van de Graff
* harvest the charges from the van de Graff and let them
re-enter the circuit using POSITIVE-FEEDBACK.

[morpher44]

reply to Bob

Hi Bob,
I think the 30-foot reception device your talking about is the Tate
Ambient Power module invented in the 70s.
tate ambient power module
Correct? I use that too. Very handy.
re: Barry Hilton's Book
I found it on scribd. There are other "book" websites too that you might
find it. It's "free" after you register with those sites, creating username
and password. scribd might be charging people money now...not sure.

re: flat-lined measurements...
A coil hooked to itself is a bit difficult to measure.
This may not be the right approach after all. But and wiring
L1 to the cap may be correct. It's hard to tell from the drawing.
A tank circuit makes sense, but the frequency be well BELOW
the AM band, but far above the frequency of the magnetic oscillator.

And hooking up to the complete device is probably not a worthwhile
approach YET until we know more about the frequencies, and tuning
requirements, and tolerances, and "schematic". The "schematic"
itself is problematic, because no one knows which of the many ones
out there are "real" .. if any.

So ignoring the schematic... and ignoring all the "plethora" of coils here,
you should be able to connect the antenna lead of the TATE Power
Module to the cylinder capacitor you've made. Ground the TATE
on the negative output. You must have a ground ... and the better
ground you have ... the better you'll do. I can't stress the importance
of this ground for good results with the TATE. The diodes in the TATE
are 1N34. Different gemanium diodes will probably work too. There
is a trade off with respect to how much juice flows thru versus
how delicate the diode is. I've burned out these DIODEs easily
while messing around ... so this is a delicate circuit.

Put across the TATE output a known load ... such as 10K ohm resistor.
Measure voltage across this 10K ohm. Knowing the voltage and the 10K,
you can derive POWER simply using Ohms law.
Our challenge here now is to get that cylinder to receive power.
STEP 1.

Just sitting there on your table, if that cylinder is isolated, you might
get maybe 2mv of voltages (without the 10k .. just with the volt meter --
depending upon your meter). IF there was a coil oscillating NEAR
the cylinder or IN the cylinder or AROUND the cylinder, you will notice
the voltage CLIMB out of the TATE.
So, hook up a signal generator to one of the coils on the Hendershot
coil and pump various frequencies thru that coil. There will be
ONE frequency you find that will MAXIMIZE the power to your TATE
with the 10k load. That will be the resonance freq (Fr) for that coil &
capacitor arrangement. Energy is flowing from signal generator, to coil,
across the air to cylinder cap, and then off to the TATE.
Do this same exercise for each of the coils in turn and right down what
Fr is for each of them.
Now, with all those Fr values in hand, you have an understanding of
what each of those coils would need to be oscillating at to get
the standing waves you need in the capacitor to produce the MOST
power to the TATE.

This approach also gives you the ability to TUNE any of these coils
that are suppose to be the "same" in terms of Fr. If two of the
Hendershot coils are the same number of turns, then they should be
giving you the same Fr. However, due to inaccuracies that accumulate
during winding, you can be off a little. So to make the Fr
match within some tolerance, you can add to or CUT wire off of one
of the coils to make it exactly match the other. I think L3 and L4
are suppose to match, for example. Given that the diameter is the
same for L1 and L2, then using the TURN-ratio between L3 and L4,
you can extrapolate what their Fr values SHOULD be ... and then
tune them accordingly.
Now go over the the 2nd Hendershot coil, and make everything match
your first Hendershot coil, "tuning-wise". Write all this down.
After you have all that done, this is the time possibly to seal things
in wax or paint with varnish or something to HOLD things firmly
in place "post tuning".

Here is where circuit analysis comes in. We need to devise a circuit
schematic that is similar to Hendershot's various schematics,
that maintains proper phasing and frequencies such that we can
get the MOST power to our cylinder devices ... and back again...
into the coils ... and so forth. The TATE would not normally be
LEFT connected to the cylinders after this tuning step.
We just had that connection as a way to help us SEE what was
occurring in this part of the TANK circuit. We could have connected
it to any of the coils too.

So one thought I have about this capacitor is that like a
Van de Graaff generator, if we can set things up so that charges
BUILD on this hand-made capacitor, because of all the oscillating
electro-magnetic fields from the Hendershot coil,
we probably do NOT want to
be connecting anything to that capacitor. It should be isolated
and allowed to "charge up". Think about the statements made
about the Hendershot device and how if its not made properly,
the foil capacitor would suffer BURNs from discharges.
The dielectric constant for Air is such that you need pretty high
voltages to get that sort of damage going .. that sort of arcing.
With a Van de Graaff effect, you certainly can.
There will be large back EMF pluses from the magnet-bar-solenoid
thing, assuming we could make that go. In fact, not knowing
how to make that go doesn't stop you. All you need is some
sort of "chopper" circuit to ACT-LIKE what that thing should be doing.
So with a 555-timer-circuit creating a pulse to an automotive
ignition coil ("circuits found on the web"), for example, you could
dial up and down various frequencies controlled by the timer and
produce a chopping DC voltage in square-wave form into your
Hendershot coils. DC square waves are IDEAL because they have
really RAPID pole reversals -- which make solenoids and magnets
go crazy. But all the big CAPS that Hendershot have are an attempt
to smooth that way down to nice sine waves ... and tweek phasing,
and isolate AC from DC, etc.
So, given that you know all the frequencies involved, we now
need to reverse engineer the schematic (w/o the magnet-bar-solenoid).
Determine what is the best way, by trying various hook up choices
for the Hendershot schematic, and see what works best and what
doesn't. Only then, after determining that part, would I next
try to get the magnet-bar-solenoid to do anything.
Make sense?

[Qwestry]

Dear Qwestry,

Someone else just asked me this question in a private email. Here is what I told him.

Yes, this is a scam. Back when Hendershot was building working models, one of the people who knew him was Ed Skilling. I met Ed back in the early 1980's due to my connections with Borderland Sciences Research Foundation. Ed told me he saw a number of machines that Lester built operating. When he asked for the plans, Lester gave him detailed instructions. Ed was a very talented and skilled electronics engineer. He built the model exactly to Lester's specifications but was not able to start the unit. One day, Lester came over to Ed's house and Ed showed him the model he built. It took Lester less than a minute to start the model that Ed built. It ran itself and lit a light bulb. When Lester left, the machine continued to run. It ran for days without any problem. Then, Ed turned it off..... and never got it running again.

Ed was an excellent circuit designer and engineer. He was not superstitious. In spite of this, he told me he believed that Lester Hendershot had some kind of telekinetic abilities, as the machines only worked for him. Even a complete set of accurate plans was no guarantee of ending up with a working device. Borderland Sciences Research Foundation sold a booklet on the Hendershot device for over two decades, and no one ever got one to run.

I am quite sure that no set of plans sold today will allow anybody to build a working model of that device. This is certainly true of Hendershot's original designs. So, the slickly sold scam plans will definitely not work.

That said, I see people making variations on Hendershot's ideas in this thread, and wish you all well.

Best regards,
Peter

Thank you very much, Peter!

I guess they can hide behind their money back guarantee.

It is truly mindboggling that evidently no one has been able to build a functioning device. I hope you guys find that positively challenging rather than demoralizing.

Did Lester die soon after visiting Ed so that the latter was not able to inquire further about the intricacies of the device's operation?