Mr Lester J Hendershot's magnetic generator.

[GSM]

Neat reference -

http://www.bearsoft.co.uk/new_site/hisch/em-mag.pdf
.

[Dave45]

Hendershot built an electronic version of the V gate, notice the positioning of the coils and magnets,

[GSM]

Do you see a correlation between these two devices
Hendershot did it

Did he ? Please explain.

Hi Dave -
Have you checked out the 'neutral zone' of an armature or keeper yet - where fractional physical movement induces instantaneous (non-linear) armature or keeper field reversal ?

This is completely new to me, and is what I am presently investigating as per Wesley Gary's findings replicated by Chris above.

So far I have observed this positional neutral zone field alternation close to a horseshoe magnet, but as yet I have been unable to induce similar near single neodi magnets.
Nor am I aware of any neodi horseshoe magnets being manufactured/ available/ sold anywhere.

Hi Chris.

I note you mentioned making your own horseshoe magnet out of steel and neodi magnets and I can understand why.
It appears to be the asymmetry at the horseshoe poles which leads to the 'neutral zone' phenomenon developing.

I am about to try neodi magnets as pole face intensifiers on the ends of alnico horseshoes which should sink the reverse field nicely away from any working armature.

Cheers ......... Graham.
.

[Dave45]

Do you see a correlation between these two devices


Permanent Magnet Motor V-gate Re-gauging from Roobert33 - YouTube
Hendershot did it

[wings]

Thanks for the links Wings, especially at the end of the first one.

You made me realise that in this situation the magnet is like a pressurising head of water which never becomes reduced because it is permanently maintained, and the sudden end of armature field changes might be just like a self sustaining water hammer/ bouncing ball valve effect which relates to the oscillating length of water column (armature) delay, acting relative to a phase delayed ball valve actuation (R-L-C SS field switching?).

Cheers .......... Graham.

consider the use of one shorted coil in the following picture,
- harm in neutral position - flow straight minimum shortest route
- sharp impulse on one coil (low power because of neutral position)- crossflow
- shorted coil current reaction - inverse crossflow
ecc ..... energy recover with?

added
by this ?
ETERNAL POWER - YouTube

[GSM]

A servo-valve torque motor (used in hydraulics) is similar to this experiment

at the end of this document...
Body

Team ME 5.3

Using simulation software to simplify DSP-based Electro-Hydraulic Servo Actuator Designs: Part 2 | Embedded

Thanks for the links Wings, especially at the end of the first one.

You made me realise that in this situation the magnet is like a pressurising head of water which never becomes reduced because it is permanently maintained, and the sudden end of armature field changes might be just like a self sustaining water hammer/ bouncing ball valve effect which relates to the oscillating length of water column (armature) delay, acting relative to a phase delayed ball valve actuation (R-L-C SS field switching?).

Cheers .......... Graham.

[GSM]

Hi Mike,

The reason I am not working on the Mk1-2 is because of the lack of information plus my inability to comprehend what is presented, so sorry I just cannot help here.

Hi Wings,

That made me smile - I don't have the time necessary to learn new software, besides all of my best work has always been 'hands-on' and I only ever used simulators to later prove performance at a distance.
Also simulators only give back what has been put in, so they are not a lead towards intuition and novelty, though I suppose it might be possible to illustrate the sudden end of keeper field change replication first reported here by Chris, and then myself.

This fundamental magnetic response is so amazing that its replication must be an essential observation step for everyone here.

Cheers .......... Graham.

Postscript at 08:00, 4th Dec 2012.
It takes such little energy and movement, in either closer or farther direction, to initiate this double length end of keeper field reversal.
Also, as there is no way that one overwind per keeper could not flash illuminate an LED, it might be possible to make continuous light through keeper field oscillation by reactive feedback to a third overwind common to both keepers, this possibly via some kind of solid state circuitry.

[mikec_ut]

Lurking

All,

There are others that are lurking and reading the posts of this site. As I stated before I wanted to investigate the Mk1-2 version. I have limited time to spend but I do have a basketweave/honeycomb coil wound (approx. 3" dia.) done and am now working on the transformer iron (core 3, 18, 23 and 27). I have worked on circuits that have capacitors and inductors but I have no experience with just magnetic induction resonance based on North/South, Clockwise/Counter Clockwise, cores connected/not connected, etc.

Keep posting your thoughts on the Mk1-2 as you work on the Mk3. All random thoughts can and will help in investigating these devices. I believe the Mk1 uses the zero point crossover as the energisation in coil #6/magnet core #7 but the Mk2 uses the buzzer method within the assembly of #9, #30, #28, #31, etc. Oh yea, I left out hinged plate #2 that moves against core #3.

I just need to build my first prototype (first one is always bad, don't work) to get an idea of the interaction between all of the parts. Flying an airplane around would make you want a unidirectional device but for testing the Mk1 is what I intend to base my first prototype on. I'll be here for awhile. Thanks for all your thoughts.

[wings]

Hi John.

..... and, is it possible that a centre region saturation causes an avalanching electron spin wave (domain reversal) to extend outwards to the keeper/ armature ends ?
....

Cheers ...... Graham.

(Time to feed the birds.)

it seem that some avalanching effect is provided by impulses and transverse magnetization ... in small wire size ??

note: free tools for micromagnetics

1Â*Â*Â*NMAG User Manual (0.2.1) — NMAG User Manual v0.2.1 documentation
Nmag - computational micromagnetics
Nmag is a flexible finite element micromagnetic simulation package

[GSM]

Hi Graham,

Can you post a diagram of what is meant by two keepers...?

JMWilk

Two thin horsehoe magnet keepers aligned and taped end to end in place of the single one flat keeper normally used.
Makes up a twice length keeper - more alike the second .gif illustration.

[jmwilk]

Hi Graham,

Can you post a diagram of what is meant by two keepers...?

JMWilk

[GSM]

Hi John.

One of the most significant aspects of magnetic induction into a rod/ bar/ lamination of soft iron/ ferrite etc., is that the active domain alignments are NOT like those typically illustrated by Wikipedia/ YouTube videos etc. in static form !

Where a coil overwind induces a field, that field is longitudinal only through that portion of the bar within the winding itself, and not along its entire length as would be the case with a permanent magnet. Those soft iron/ ferrite magnetic domains within a core but beyond the end of the field core winding induced energisation, tend to gain increasingly radial orientation with respect to the core axis, thus the most efficient electromagnetic and-or electromechanical magnetic transduction arises where the coil and core have equal length and same end lengths, as with old fashioned telephone ringers and field coil energised loudspeakers.

Take the plain horseshoe magnet -
http://www.coolmagnetman.com/gallery/images/p11.gif

Further to my comment about being fed up with seeing field lines being drawn in relation to magnets, here I ask everyone to note that the line looping out below from the centre of the magnet is misleading, for field strength is like a figure-of-eight around the poles, and, being inverse (square, but dimension modified) related to distance away from any pole centre is weakest along those out looping centre lines.
Of course we do know this, but the mind's eye works differently !!!!!

Now with a long keeper -
http://www.coolmagnetman.com/gallery/images/p12.gif

Note that the field lines cut through/ into the keeper.
However, what this illustration does not clarify is pole fields extending out to the ends of that keeper, such that the keeper ends retain the polarity of the magnet it is attracted to.
This same state of keeper polarisation exists as the keeper is pulled off and out away from the magnet to a distance about 1/4" with my non-special horseshoe magnet, such that the ends of my twice length keeper retain magnet matching polarity throughout that close gap range.

Beyond this distance however, where figure-of-eight field strength polarity from the magnet poles extend and loop outwards exactly as they do with a bar magnet, this field can reach to and enter the ends of the keeper.

The paramagnetic keeper then becomes polarised from end to end in free space gaining its own figure of eight field strength polarisation, such that the weakening figure-of-eight magnet field between the magnet poles can no longer impose radial domain alignment through the side of the keeper.

In so doing, the keeper becomes a series polarised paramagnet with end polarities suddenly reversed compared to those observed in closer situ. The keeper becomes wholly end-to-end series magnetised in reverse to the parallel end polarity existing before, and, is it possible that a centre region saturation causes an avalanching electron spin wave (domain reversal) to extend outwards to the keeper/ armature ends ?

From these studies I think this effect would be better transduced at keeper/ armature ends, rather than via a single centre coil winding, and thus it might well be that Lester Hendershots piggy-back 'buzzer' arrangement has represented a superior magnetic circuit for transducing end of armature polarity changes.
But what if a multilayer transducing sleeve wind around the armature ends were to fill the gap between the pole faces and the vibrating armature itself ?

Cheers ...... Graham.

(Time to feed the birds.)

[john_g]

Hi Graham

Would you be able to do a diagram of your setup?

I have been playing with some phone coils and small horseshoe magnet. What surprised me is the reach of the magnetic induction. In the pic you can just see a thin soft iron bar held onto the coils U core by induction. What is surprising is how close the U core need to be until it gets ripped off and attracted to the magnet.

I have been trying to find this neutral line without success.

[GSM]

The Neutral Zone ?

So if there's no Lenz interaction between the armature and the magnet, it would seem that a good balance of mass and overcoming the attraction is all that's needed.

Agreed, though I guess that not all Lenz effect will be 'out of the window' with either a Gary or Hendershot arrangement, yet where any induction from magnetic field reversal is purely mechanical, then much conventional 'scientific' understanding about winding induction based electrical induction will be rendered inapplicable.

So like you Chris I too went looking for the neutral zone - I dug deep into my 'magnets' box, found and used a miniature field tracing compass, a horshoe magnet and its keeper -
and that neutral zone wasn't there !
No matter how I tried - with keeper away from the magnet - end on or at the side of pole faces - or even using two magnets side by side with parallelled polarities.

I tried two spaced magnets too - in field opposition, and yes there was a neutral zone, but it was so gradual and linear as to be no use at transient induction.

So I tried two keepers end-to-end with one horseshoe magnet - and there it was - exactly as I surmised a couple of posts back !
There was an absolute needle slap of polarity change sensed by the compass - this induced by a longitudinal physical displacement normal the pole face line - and which felt as if not requiring any mechanical effort at all !

I really do so hope that many more people are reading this thread than are the very few who are contributing.
Go try it folks - and be surprised !

Cheers ........... Graham.

[ChrisW]

Well then, it appears you've invented an entirely new word! Since it has already been used as an adieu and farewell, then its definition needs a little "hook" -- a catchy meaning to the type of farewell intended. Hmm -- do ponder upon this and let your sense of humor run free!

So if there's no Lenz interaction between the armature and the magnet, it would seem that a good balance of mass and overcoming the attraction is all that's needed. Along with, of course, something to cause the vibration at a rapid rate. I suspect the latter may be the difficult part, given the mass of the armature and coil. I'll know more tomorrow.

G'night -- and "chesations!"
Chris