Mr Lester J Hendershot's magnetic generator.

[thx1138]

Be careful. I heard that dust from neodymium magnets is toxic.

Thanks for the warning. Fortunately I was working on a magnet so the grinding dust is immediately attracted to the magnet I was working on. It's tough to get it off of the magnet so there wasn't any floating around in the air.

[thx1138]

Alnico ring magnet

.
What am I looking for? Core ferrite, polarization over the diameter, outer diameter about 3 inch, inner diameter about 2.5 inch, and thickness about 2 inch, or that could be several aligned ring magnets also. If they have a website please include the link.
TIA!

Close but not ferrite. Alnico, 3"OD, 2 1/4" ID, 1 1/2" high. Did not state direction of magnetization.
Alnico Ring Magnets | MSCDirect.com
It's used in tool and material positioning. The vendor is an d industrial tool supplier. Another place to look.

[pjotterkjen]

ring magnet

Close but not ferrite. Alnico, 3"OD, 2 1/4" ID, 1 1/2" high. Did not state direction of magnetization.

Looks pretty good, thanks!
Alnico is the way to go but I found out there are different types.
I asked them about the alloy type and polarization.

[pjotterkjen]

ring magnet

Looks pretty good, thanks!
Alnico is the way to go but I found out there are different types.
I asked them about the alloy type and polarization.

Just to record, here's the answer, it's alnico 5 and polarization is diametrically:
Industrial Supply Equipment from MSC Industrial Supply
I think having two magnets of this type stacked would give me 2.5 inch.
Total cost including shipping to where I am must be around US 250 dollars.

I think diametrically is my first shot, as this type of magnet allows for the magnetic lines of force to run through the ring, and when placed horizontally, the magnetic lines of force of the earth are causing the so-called flux-gate effect, which may play a role in getting the inner magnetic field to oscillate when combining the windings #008 a/b and the inner coil #006.

The main trick will be to determine HOW to wind both coils a/b; I'm reading up on some related documents to get an idea. I know later versions used either honeycomb or basket, but I'm not so sure if the MK1 had one of those, as Major Lanphier mentioned that only Hendershot knew how to wind them. Any ideas here would be highly appreciated.

[GSM]

... the magnetic lines of force of the earth are causing the so-called flux-gate effect, which may play a role in getting the inner magnetic field to oscillate when combining the windings #008 a/b and the inner coil #006.
... as Major Lanphier mentioned that only Hendershot knew how to wind them. Any ideas here would be highly appreciated.

We often see lines of force drawn around magnets, but those "field lines" apply only to the detector describing them.
There are no lines of force until a magnetic material translates them, and these can change in relation to the shape and type of material involved.

In this regard I should like to chuck an idea into the circle; this being that iron wire could have been used for the Mk1 aeroplane basket coils, thus possibly being self cored and earth polarised inductors.

Cheers ............... Graham.

[pjotterkjen]

Magnetic lines of force / iron wire

We often see lines of force drawn around magnets, but those "field lines" apply only to the detector describing them.
There are no lines of force until a magnetic material translates them, and these can change in relation to the shape and type of material involved.

In this regard I should like to chuck an idea into the circle; this being that iron wire could have been used for the Mk1 aeroplane basket coils, thus possibly being self cored and earth polarised inductors.

Cheers ............... Graham.

Of course, lines of force do not exists, they are only an indication of direction in the case you place a small compass needle in a specific point, for example. It is a visual representation, easy for the mass to learn.

We also know these lines change when other materials are placed near them, being materials that can influence - attract or repel - the existing magnetic field. Gary Wesley's experiments are very interesting in getting a grip on how different fields interact.

We also know that a magnetic field is a result of magnet domains (groups of atoms) being aligned through some heating and cooling process under the influence of an external magnetic field, whatever the polarization might have been. The combined atom spins add to each other and create the resulting magnetic field.

You mention using iron wire, I assume without using a ring magnet? The iron would serve as a soft iron core, while the MK1/2 had a permanent ring magnet... I'm not sure how to interpret the idea technically, but of course it can always be tested. I'll see if I can get some suitable iron wire as well.

[GSM]

You mention using iron wire, I assume without using a ring magnet? The iron would serve as a soft iron core, while the MK1/2 had a permanent ring magnet... I'm not sure how to interpret the idea technically, but of course it can always be tested. I'll see if I can get some suitable iron wire as well.

Thanks for your reply pjotterkjen.
I can't help but think it essential we think in ways quite different to those in which we have been 'educated' via school-college science books-labs.

I wonder if Lester might have pulsatilely transduced 'earth field' in his Mk1 at his higher frequency by using iron cored wire for his 008A-B coils, though of course a ring magnet could have been used in association with copper wire there as well for say the Mk2. MikeC, any ideas ?

The magnet-coil axes we have read about within the different illustrated Hendershot oscillator assemblies positioned centrally inside of the 008 coils, were all normal to the 008 coil axes, and thus not directly related to inducable 008 field reversals.
Could 'Core4' have been related to reversing the polarised (energised) 008 coil fields ?

I find this so very difficult to get my mind around .............

Cheers ........... Graham.

[Beamgate]

A fractal exercise on Hendershot's geometry:

Hendershot

[pjotterkjen]

fractal exercise on Hendershot's geometry

A fractal exercise on Hendershot's geometry:

Hendershot

Most interesting information, who's work is this?
I guess the MK3 replicators got something interesting to chew on, and hopefully give this Hendershot mystery finally some real progress...!

[GSM]

Not so long ago I posted about a Hendershot Generator 'kit' for about $500 on e-bay.
This article uses the exact same parts.

The kit had wrong value electrolytics, and the cores were without foil tuning capacitors.
The central magnetic assembly here also looks completely different.

Cheers ............ Graham.

[pjotterkjen]

Capacitors not correct

Yes, Graham, I noticed the capacitors used, clearly not correct, but the author does acknowledge it and we should only take from this article what we can use, of course, to progress.

This may well be the reason why the builder's device failed to start oscillating... I think it is worth a try to follow the build but use the Aho device / crusty circuit and yes craft those difficult to make capacitors.

[mikec_ut]

Thanks for your reply pjotterkjen.

I wonder if Lester might have pulsatilely transduced 'earth field' in his Mk1 at his higher frequency by using iron cored wire for his 008A-B coils, though of course a ring magnet could have been used in association with copper wire there as well for say the Mk2. MikeC, any ideas ?

I find this so very difficult to get my mind around .............

Cheers ........... Graham.

@Graham
I have been busy trying to wrap up 3 other projects. If my memory serves me the MK2 version used a ring magnet in combination with a small flapper of some type to get the oscillation going. (have not had time to figure this out yet). But the MK1 version used a magnetic core in one of the coils within coil 008A/B. This coil when energized would neg-gate the permanent magnet within the coil but when the electromagnet was released the additive effect of the coil and permanent magnet would keep the oscillation going. (have not had time to figure this out yet)

I did not consider iron core wire. I believe it was stated that the basket weave coil (#008) was insulated wire not magnet wire (enamel coated). This could indicate that the wire was different than copper but on the other hand copper wire was every where. In all of the research I have not found any circuits from that period of time that used iron core wire. I need to do more research to give a better answer.

Just a thought on the MK1-2 design. The patent writer was the one that labeled all of the components but I think the operation is backwards. From the components associated with coil #8 it feeds backwards to the end coil and works up to coil #4 which draws in the flapper that breaks the oscillation that will allow it to restart. I am still not sure how all of these components work together but if we can break them down part by part it might become clear.

I am not one that responses much, too busy on many projects but I do scan the forums very often. The Mk3 is very interesting. I found out about Hendershot after seeing the schematic of his MK3 design. It looked very familiar to me but I couldn't remember from where. I finally found the familiar connection. I have had in my possession a unfinished doc from Ed Skilling and had no connection to Hendershot. Doc:
"Electorstatic Power Generator
An electric charge that is resident in an electric field experiences a force of repulsion or attraction depending on the nature of the charge. A high quantity of potential energy is prevalent in all matter on this planet. These microwatts of power are in constant motion between masses of mater in a attempt to neutralize to a balanced state. This motion between bodies of matter creates an electrostatic charged field. Example: The charge between storm clouds and earth, resulting in lightning flashes.
The principle of power generation is this disclosure is based upon the electrostatic principles as described above and upon a hypothesis that by the rapid charging and discharging (kilo megacycles) of these minute power pulses the energy is stored by conventional electronic components and released at a usable rate.
The generator consists of two basic parts, (I) Collector, (II) Translator.
1. Collection
The collector consists of two plates of dissimilar material separated by a dielectric material. Adjacent to and in direct contact with on of the plates is a multi turn coil of insulated wire which serves as the secondary of an air wound transformer. A primary coil is wound around the outside diameter of the secondary and this coil is connected to the plates of the collector capacitor.
High voltage at low current charges the plates of the capacitor.
page 1"

This is all of the doc that I have except a schematic that has been shown many times on this forum as the original Hendershot diagram, with the 40 and 80 microfarad capacitors, etc. But on my copy is many hand written notes by Ed Skilling that indicates it working is some kind of form resulting in a fried 40 microfarad capacitor near coil L2 on the schematic. This schematic was dated Oct. 26, 1958 and signed by ED Skilling done on Sunday form 11:30 til 2:30 pm. The title note states "75 watt output (with comment) Meter read 110 volt AC after 3min drop to 90 volts and capacitor starts boiling"

I hope this brings happiness to all - it really does work but I just don't know how! This is why I wanted to start with the MK1.

The adventure continues.

[pjotterkjen]

From before MK1 to MK3

Just a thought on the MK1-2 design. The patent writer was the one that labeled all of the components but I think the operation is backwards. From the components associated with coil #8 it feeds backwards to the end coil and works up to coil #4 which draws in the flapper that breaks the oscillation that will allow it to restart. I am still not sure how all of these components work together but if we can break them down part by part it might become clear.

Great to see some response of you mikec_ut, hope you now have some time to join the club here and help make progress.

I, like you, am concentrated on the MK1 devices, am still in the process of getting my first materials, but in the meantime have gathered a pretty good understanding of how Hendershot came to the MK designs.

First of all, there has been some confusion about his first devices being a motor or a generator. According to my findings, he has done both things. We know he started out with the Earth Inductor Compass. That is where he got inspired to invent and build a compass that would indicate true North (not the mangetic North).

So the next thing he did was to take a ring magnet, and placed this magnet around the coil armature that he had made according to the one inside an at that time available Earth Inductor Compass (see for reference patent 1047157 of Donald Bliss, 1912).

According to a document I found and which I'm still studying (Utility Engines, "The secret of the Hendershot Motor", you can find it here Lester J. Hendershot : Generator & Motor, he then wound two coils around that ring magnet. The polarization of the magnet is not mentioned, could either be radial or diametrically, if it was diametrically then the flux-gate effect would be present, if radial then I think the natural magnetic field of the earth would be too weak to influence the inner magnetic field at all, but anyways both should be tested.

This ring magnet with its two coils wound in opposite way to the inner windings (whatever that exactly may mean, I don't know yet) was applied an pulsating signal to start the armature spinning. The circuit shown shows a spark gap being used. Once the motor was running the pulsating signal was not needed anymore. We have seen this type of electrical circuit 'ignition' used in many other inventions. The document also mentioned there were copper cores inside the windings, this to enable the continuous rotation of the inner armature. So the inner magnetic field must have been a circulating field, initiated by the puls on the coils of the ring magnet, and from there a sustaining oscillating field resulted.

So I guess when Hendershot built his first device is was actually a motor, but a self running one (at that time he already had changed his focus from the true north compass to the self-running motor). I recall having read that in the small airplane model he built for his little son there was a swith and when he turned it on, the motor started running.

However, this model was not shown at the Selfridge Field, since Major Lanphier stated to NYT reporters that the device was not a motor but a generator. So from this information, I guess that Hendershot, having seen the possibility of being able to self-run a small motor, started to build his next device, and wanted to use the concept of the ring magnet but wanted to see if the energy could be harvested through using fixed components. He thought building a generator would serve more purposes. He was a true inventor and had the ability to build on his experiences.

So then he started to place coils and cores, and built his next device, also being a model airplane generator device, with the airplane motor as the load. This was demoed at the Selfridge Field. And that device was replicated by technicians at the field under Hendershot's instructions, without him actually building anything. And it worked.

Then the trouble came for Hendershot. He was not able to publicly expose his devices and findings, something that happened to a lot of other wonderful inventors. But he continued to improve on the device. We'll never know how he got to the MK3 designs, a device that according to Arthur Aho could work with several different specifications, and I believe that to be true.

It was actually a long time, from 1928 until around 1958, that's three decades, really a long time, so realizing this we should all be prepared to invest some considerable time in this project if we want to succeed.

A last note... what we can see from the MK1/2 device is the coil #008 a/b has evolutionized into MK3's two cap-coils. The resonator #002 has become the buzzer. The addition of capacitors with high value was because some means of buffering or storing electrical energy was necessary, and finally to make positive feedback possible so to oscillate the device.

So yes the adventure is continuing, hopefully you guys and many others stick around because together we make at least a small genius.

[pjotterkjen]

Possible working of MK1/2

Just a thought on the MK1-2 design. The patent writer was the one that labeled all of the components but I think the operation is backwards. From the components associated with coil #8 it feeds backwards to the end coil and works up to coil #4 which draws in the flapper that breaks the oscillation that will allow it to restart. I am still not sure how all of these components work together but if we can break them down part by part it might become clear.

I originally wanted to your comment mikec_ut on the above, but forgot about it, so I'm here with some more specific thoughts on the MK1/2 designs, trying to break down the different parts.

First of all I agree the working of the device is not what it at first seems the most logical explanation. The collector being the main distraction. In my opinion, this small plate does nothing more than shield the underlying components, and may pick up some very small signals to input to coil #006. But that's not the case. After having read other information, it becomes clear that the oscillation starts because of the special arrangements of coil #008 a/b and coil #006. Most likely the oscillation process is positively influenced by coil #004 / soft iron core #003, coils #013 and #015 with soft iron cores #014 and #016 together with resistor #017, and resonator #002.

Wire #005 and collector #001 are - in my opinion - an added distraction. The mystery is around #008 a/b and coil #006. A ring magnet must be added to the build. A big one that fits inside coil #008 a/b (3'' outer diameter, 2.5'' inner diameter, 2-2.5'' thickness, preferably alnico 5, polarization either diametrically or radial). Did you do that mikec_ut or are you planning to?

Also, the resonator is in my opinion nothing more than an audible indication to indicate oscillation was coming up. But it may also add to the oscillation feedback when touching the core #003 and this way changing the core's magnetic field. Again, this also should be included in the bench testing.

Finally, the coils a/b are part of the mystery to solve here. They must be wounded in a special way, possibly honeycomb, or basket, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are wound using a combination or even a different method.
This is why I'm going to concentrate around this part of the MK1/2 device and am sure to find out some real interesting stuff when I'm finally at the bench, testing.

[pjotterkjen]

great info on grinding & cutting tools - precautions

A couple of links follow... (see original post)

Once again thx1138, thanks for the info. Looks very doable. But first I'll have to get my hands on some ring magnets.

And yes, the powder that comes from permanent magnets especially neos can be really dangerous, so we need to take our precautions.