Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[bistander]

Standard generator

Hi Ufo,

...

Look at a Rotary Generator Exciter System...the Cap is only from 200 to 300 mfd or even lower capacitance...why?...why not make it larger?...just because these exciting fields process is based on Flash Discharges at the right timing to Secondaries, and at exactly 90º it recharges back again...to then "repeat process"...and so actually this discharge-charge takes place every 90 degrees, so, in 360 (full cycle) it does "Four Tempos", Two Charges and Two discharges.
...

The cap is primarily a filter on the bridge rectifier plus aiding the establishment of residual if needed.

{edit}

...

Once I also thought that the Exciting Fields were ON AT ALL TIME during Rotation...but this is completely false...it is a process of Charge-Discharge separated by 90 degrees in a Single Phase Home Genny.
...

Maybe just difference in terminology, but the field (rotor) runs at a steady DC from the bridge and cap. Didn't you take the current and voltage a while back. What you get is a steady N pole on the rotor (field) sweeping the armature coils (in the stator slots) followed by the S pole on the rotor. This induces (generates) AC in the armature (stator winding). I'm at a loss as to what is charging and discharging at 90°.

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

I forgot to mention that this Charge-Discharge Process only takes place when Generator is LOADED.

For NO-LOAD conditions secondaries are not being discharged, therefore, Exciter remains Charged.

This is it Guys...all the rest is your capability of INVENTION and DEVELOPMENT.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Excellent Post!!

Agreed! especially point 1..proof is in the common petrol generator that needs to be cranked by hand....the weak residual magnetic fields are sufficient to induce current that in turn excites the stator windings with a slightly stronger field and this cycle continues to snowball until the point where thee is sufficient power for a load.

Hi Jegz,

That above post has been the BEST reasoning I have read in a while...

And it goes even further...

This residual Magnetism is ENOUGH to reach its peak CHARGE-DISCHARGE RATIO, once the 60 Hertz or 3600 RPM's are obtained.

Obviously in just a few minutes of running time at FULL SPEED it will be ready to take a load from Secondaries.

Once I also thought that the Exciting Fields were ON AT ALL TIME during Rotation...but this is completely false...it is a process of Charge-Discharge separated by 90 degrees in a Single Phase Home Genny.

And this Charge-Discharge Process applies to Brushed and Brushless Home Generators.

This is VERY IMPORTANT to know...when we apply it to our Static Systems.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Why not "brake off" from the Rotary Structure?

Hello All,

I do not agree with Secondary Air Cores...

Secondaries Coils are dedicated just to COLLECT all the Magnetism from Exciting Coils, and having Iron Cores will definitively AMPLIFY this Induction.

This Magnetism Force from Exciters should only be a "FLASH" or a Wang-Bang (thank You Ma'm...) and done deal, to then REPEAT again, just like a Generator does.

Setting Secondaries at 90º to Exciter's is not gonna induce nada...absolutely nothing, I have already tested that option before.

Air Gaps?...why?...we no longer have a Rotary System?...then why "preserve" such structure?

Figuera is great, but he is still bound (on his 1908 patent) to a rotary system config, but static..which he don't need to.

Also, having at all times currents from source feeding primaries is not required either, and is a HUGE LOSS, we just need Electro Magnetic Pulses which FLASH-CHARGE Secondaries, so that the more we pulse the closer this charges are between them...so, the more Robust and higher continuous output.

Look at a Rotary Generator Exciter System...the Cap is only from 200 to 300 mfd or even lower capacitance...why?...why not make it larger?...just because these exciting fields process is based on Flash Discharges at the right timing to Secondaries, and at exactly 90º it recharges back again...to then "repeat process"...and so actually this discharge-charge takes place every 90 degrees, so, in 360 (full cycle) it does "Four Tempos", Two Charges and Two discharges.

Besides all of the above...side Induction (face to face) through an air gap is part of a rotary structure...and this form of Induction carries too many losses and is much weaker...that is why it is required (in Figuera) Two Exciters with just one secondary sandwiched between...IMHO, this is too much energy spent in the Exciter System, to just induce one single primary.

Those above were just my opinions...You Guys do whatever you feel is best to your set up...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Elcheapo]

More to think about

I have to agree with Marxist in that the secondary coils be just air-core.
The 1908 patent uses 4 secondaries and the spacing between the 4 polepieces looks to be quite small.
From the picture, it looks like the cores are closed ( for much less reluctance)
I dont think straight open cores will work.

I seem to think that the secondaries should be wound perpendicular
to that of the solenoid coils. They would have to be quite narrow and sandwiched in between the 2 pole pieces.The solenoid cores should have as large a perimeter as possible with the secondary coils of the same perimeter right in the middle of this changing magnetic field.

This would cancel any transformer effect by not getting any emf inducement from the solenoid coils. We only want the secondary coil to PRODUCE free energy, and not take it from the circuit.
The main important thing that people seem to ignore, is that when current in coil A is going up, then current in coil B should go down by the same amount. (in unison)
The key is "SAME AMOUNT".
Well you can't just use a bunch of 1 or 2 ohm resistors and expect results.
I think Figueras had his 8 resistors custom made to suit the purpose.
The purpose being able to mitigate the Lenz effect with his 2 uniquely positioned solenoids.
As an example:
IF Coil A is pulsed at 8 amps & coil B at 4 amps, then next G position would be A= 5: B=7: etc.. The sum of A and B always has to be exactly the same. In this case it is 12 amps.
So the source current (as well as source voltage) is always constant.No change means no bemf. And yes, there is mention of a constant current by Figueras.
He was a very smart man!

[marathonman]

Figuera Device

Good points are brought up.
The Figuera device has no residual magnetic field to operate off of so the field must be created each time the device is operated. once the field is established it will operate as does a regular gen a side from the fact that the Figuera device only pushes the weightless massless field side to side so the initial currant draw will drop once the field is established.

Dougs squirrel cage description was the greatest when describing the function of the Figuera device. once the secondary field is set up the primaries have no problem in pushing the field from side to side. the attraction of a standard geny will surpass the output by a considerable amount as the drag increases as the load increases.

the input for both to create the field is actually considerably small compared to the output if not for the drag on a standard gen unlike the Figuera device which has none.

Good Memorial day Gentleman, please remember us vets in a moment of silence and a good prayer.

MM

[boguslaw]

Agreed! especially point 1..proof is in the common petrol generator that needs to be cranked by hand....the weak residual magnetic fields are sufficient to induce current that in turn excites the stator windings with a slightly stronger field and this cycle continues to snowball until the point where thee is sufficient power for a load.

Yes, and that is the secret knowledge known by elite who do not like to trow away big energy business. It is known probably from the beginning (Daniel McFarland Cook had device in 1872) .
And Hubbard was able to use only initial impulse to generate excess energy of really commercial value. 13 MW of continuous power for Hubbard device just a 5 meters long.
I really do not understand how this is overlooked by academic science.

[jegz]

Yes.I think we all got it. It is very clearly described by Figuera. However many people do not understand the importance of this quite simple flow of thoughts.
Figuera generator once constructed and operated without external power source (except for the start-up) would just prove two facts (for me they are facts, yet there are still theories without a working generator):

1. The source of electric energy is magnetic field , not the mechanical work or the chemical reaction or atomic power or whatever the politicians forces us to believe.

2. There is a problem with our generators because they are constructed in a way to use positive feedback to create huge magnetic field by consuming a fuel (oil,coal,steam) to put mechanical force to overcome seemingly unavoidable "conversion of mechanical energy" -the drag created by magnetic dipole formed between the cores of generating and output coils.

Agreed! especially point 1..proof is in the common petrol generator that needs to be cranked by hand....the weak residual magnetic fields are sufficient to induce current that in turn excites the stator windings with a slightly stronger field and this cycle continues to snowball until the point where thee is sufficient power for a load.

[boguslaw]

Hi hanon and all,

I re-read Figuera's first patents, in which he describes his first machines: the ones with rotating coils. I was trying to find the basic principle he "invented" and wanted to understand how he carried this principle from those machines to his later setups with fixed coils.
I found that "all he did" was 2 things:

• 1) omitting iron and other ferromagnetic cores from generating coils (secondaries).
  In this way he "weakened" the magnetic feedback-effect (he called it "communication") from the secondaries to the primaries.
  
• 2) strengthening the primary magnetic field in the area where the electrical power is produced, that is in the generating coils.

Let's give this a more detailed look:

Why do electromagnets always have iron cores?
Because a ferromagnetic core boosts the magnetic effect of a coil.
Figuera used this in his primaries.

Now let's try to see this from another angle: a lot of electrical current can flow through a coil but it will only produce a weak magnetic field, as long as this coil has an air-core.
Figuera used this fact in his secondaries, so that the magnetic field of the generated current would not create opposition to the primary magnetic field.

Let's look at generators and at Lenz's law:

The faster a generator turns, the more power gets produced. More current will flow in the generating coils (secondaries). Consequently the magnetic flux or field of this current - which opposes rotation - will also rise.
This opposing magnetic flux is unavoidable but it can only create a strong opposing force acting as a brake on rotation, if it can polarize an iron core.

Back to Figuera:

Well, in his setup with rotating coils he strengthened the primary field, by putting magnets on BOTH sides of the generating coils.

And how did he weaken the secondary field (the opposing field) while generating high current in the secondaries?
By NOT putting iron cores into them.
Later Figuera stopped using rotating coils, creating the changing primary field without moving parts.

How did he preserve the working principle in those later setups?

To provide high generating field strength in the secondaries he prolonged the cores of the primary coils to reach into the secondaries. But only so far, that these cores always remained polarized by the primaries - not to be polarized by the secondaries.
To achieve this, the cores of his primaries, protruding into the secondaries from either side, were not allowed to touch each other in the secondaries. There always needs to be an air-gap in each secondary.

If the length of a primary's core that protrudes into the secondary is chosen correctly, the current in the secondary can not polarize that core and "communication" between the primary and the secondary magnetic field is avoided.

In such a setup Lenz law is valid yet irrelevant.

Yes.I think we all got it. It is very clearly described by Figuera. However many people do not understand the importance of this quite simple flow of thoughts.
Figuera generator once constructed and operated without external power source (except for the start-up) would just prove two facts (for me they are facts, yet there are still theories without a working generator):

1. The source of electric energy is magnetic field , not the mechanical work or the chemical reaction or atomic power or whatever the politicians forces us to believe.

2. There is a problem with our generators because they are constructed in a way to use positive feedback to create huge magnetic field by consuming a fuel (oil,coal,steam) to put mechanical force to overcome seemingly unavoidable "conversion of mechanical energy" -the drag created by magnetic dipole formed between the cores of generating and output coils.

[marxist]

weakening strength of Lenz effect

Hi hanon and all,

I re-read Figuera's first patents, in which he describes his first machines: the ones with rotating coils. I was trying to find the basic principle he "invented" and wanted to understand how he carried this principle from those machines to his later setups with fixed coils.
I found that "all he did" was 2 things:

• 1) omitting iron and other ferromagnetic cores from generating coils (secondaries).
  In this way he "weakened" the magnetic feedback-effect (he called it "communication") from the secondaries to the primaries.
  
• 2) strengthening the primary magnetic field in the area where the electrical power is produced, that is in the generating coils.

Let's give this a more detailed look:

Why do electromagnets always have iron cores?
Because a ferromagnetic core boosts the magnetic effect of a coil.
Figuera used this in his primaries.

Now let's try to see this from another angle: a lot of electrical current can flow through a coil but it will only produce a weak magnetic field, as long as this coil has an air-core.
Figuera used this fact in his secondaries, so that the magnetic field of the generated current would not create opposition to the primary magnetic field.

Let's look at generators and at Lenz's law:

The faster a generator turns, the more power gets produced. More current will flow in the generating coils (secondaries). Consequently the magnetic flux or field of this current - which opposes rotation - will also rise.
This opposing magnetic flux is unavoidable but it can only create a strong opposing force acting as a brake on rotation, if it can polarize an iron core.

Back to Figuera:

Well, in his setup with rotating coils he strengthened the primary field, by putting magnets on BOTH sides of the generating coils.

And how did he weaken the secondary field (the opposing field) while generating high current in the secondaries?
By NOT putting iron cores into them.
Later Figuera stopped using rotating coils, creating the changing primary field without moving parts.

How did he preserve the working principle in those later setups?

To provide high generating field strength in the secondaries he prolonged the cores of the primary coils to reach into the secondaries. But only so far, that these cores always remained polarized by the primaries - not to be polarized by the secondaries.
To achieve this, the cores of his primaries, protruding into the secondaries from either side, were not allowed to touch each other in the secondaries. There always needs to be an air-gap in each secondary.

If the length of a primary's core that protrudes into the secondary is chosen correctly, the current in the secondary can not polarize that core and "communication" between the primary and the secondary magnetic field is avoided.

In such a setup Lenz law is valid yet irrelevant.

[Diplomacy]

Is the Input/Output voltage of Figuera's original device known?

Also the device reminds me of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halbach_array

[Elcheapo]

amp-turns

To all.


Here's something to think about.
I found the writings of Joseph Cater highly interesting,especially his theories on electricity and magnetism.

He says that when a coil is pulsed with dc with no reversals of the current, then the coil has no impedance.
Just the same resistance as a straight piece of wire.
This would imply that we should be winding our coils with more turns for a stronger magnetic field.

He also says that for an iron core, there's a critical point in ampere-turns where just a small increase will
put out a very strong magnetic field. A gauss gauge would come in handy for finding this point.
By adding more turns, this could also mean that we could use less amperage to drive the coils.
Less amps means smaller wire. Smaller wire means the outer layers are closer to the core for better efficiency.
Of course less amps would also mean we could use much lower wattage resistors (if that's the way you want to go).

I'm sure Figueras already had this all figured out.

Let's get this thread back on track!

[hanon1492]

A user in OU.com forum has posted this:

Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE

[bistander]

2-phase

Hi bi;
I'm splitting the incoming sinus signal to my 10 Watt stereo amplifier. See pic. One straight on and the other via a small cap (C/R) and an extra adjustable amplifier making one of the signals to be delayed about 92°. Two signals out 0° + 90° and one common ground (G + G).
Makes four wires to the contraption.

Regards / Arne

Hi seaad,

OK, but you get fluctuating ground potential or something weird like that. There was a good reason they used to run 4 wires from isolated coils on generators to get the 2-phase 90°.

So when you show all measurements to ground, both input and output, the common ground could alter accuracy. Neat to see what you're doing but a bit far from Figuera. It might motivate someone with a mechanical part G to try your coil/core arrangement.

Regards,

bi

[seaad]

Hi bi;
I'm splitting the incoming sinus signal to my 10 Watt stereo amplifier. One straight on and the other via a small cap (C/R) and an extra adjustable amplifier making one of the signals to be delayed about 92°. Two signals out 0° + 90° and one common ground (G + G).
Makes four wires going to the contraption.

https://electricalnotes.wordpress.co...f-transformer/
Se pic: 2Phase three wire

Regards / Arne