Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[bistander]

Kilowatts

Hello Bistander,

Going by "Historical Facts"...

Figuera built a Generator which he had in his house, which produced around 500 Volts (Not mention about amperage nor wattage here)...but it was running a couple of motors and some lamps at home...

He had a German Manufacturer build his "Controller" Assembly...which eventually offer to buy the design...He refused to sell.

Concluding that Figuera never got to build the "Industrial" prototype ...

Meaning, He never got to play with the output you are mentioning in the Kilowatts range...then he must have been concerned with efficiency.

Now I would be assuming that by building this 500V output Generator he could use it to promote his patent since it was a real proof of his concept...and so this prototype was enough (no need to build a bigger machine) to pursue and sign a full contract with Banksters...

And then He died...


End of story.


And here we are trying to build a Figuera Device in the Kilowatts range...while screaming, ranting and arguing if it could or not be done...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi Ufo,

What about Doug's 5 killowatt generator? MM claims it's been running for several years. And I thought I had read Figuera had built a 15 kW unit.

But still, if these generators are self exciting as CF and others claim, input power is zero and the term efficiency does not make any sense. Mathematically it equals infinity regardless of size of the unit.

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Historical Facts...

What is the efficiency of a free energy generator which is self running? Eff = (power out / power in) * 100%. Since no input power is required, efficiency is a meaningless metric.

So how could Figuera be concerned with efficiency? Maybe he just didn't care all that much about a few hundred Watts when he had like 5 or 10 or 15,000 Watts for free all the time.

Regards,

bi

Hello Bistander,

Going by "Historical Facts"...

Figuera built a Generator which he had in his house, which produced around 500 Volts (Not mention about amperage nor wattage here)...but it was running a couple of motors and some lamps at home...

He had a German Manufacturer build his "Controller" Assembly...which eventually offer to buy the design...He refused to sell.

Concluding that Figuera never got to build the "Industrial" prototype ...

Meaning, He never got to play with the output you are mentioning in the Kilowatts range...then he must have been concerned with efficiency.

Now I would be assuming that by building this 500V output Generator he could use it to promote his patent since it was a real proof of his concept...and so this prototype was enough (no need to build a bigger machine) to pursue and sign a full contract with Banksters...

And then He died...


End of story.


And here we are trying to build a Figuera Device in the Kilowatts range...while screaming, ranting and arguing if it could or not be done...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

Amazing

It's Quite amazing to see people arguing just for the sake of arguing.
So called Grown men that are suppose to be researchers (WHAT A JOKE) but instead all you people do with your time is nit pick, scoff, belittle, discredit someone else.
You guys are so far from a team it's not even funny, a free for all cluster F**K with NO evidence to back up your pathetic disapproval. you even spread your gloom and doom to other sites and threads like cancer or a plague infesting for no cause, cure or reason.

I SAY BUILD IT OR SHUT UP quite acting like a bunch of panty wearing Bit**es.

PROVE ME WRONG or SHUT THE HELL UP.

Plain and simple, start acting like grown adult RESEARCHERS not a bunch of old bags yapping at the mouth.

MM

[bistander]

Efficiency

air core inductors have VERY LITTLE self inductance so what is the easiest way to increase self inductance, YEP, WITH AN IRON CORE.
Sorry but Figuera did not use an air core inductor the same as he did NOT use resistors, because the are not efficient but an iron core ring, cylinder or toroid will be in the 98 to 99 % efficiency rating so then you have to stop and think, if possible, why would Figuera design a really awesome device that has a crappy efficiency rating.

What is the efficiency of a free energy generator which is self running? Eff = (power out / power in) * 100%. Since no input power is required, efficiency is a meaningless metric.

So how could Figuera be concerned with efficiency? Maybe he just didn't care all that much about a few hundred Watts when he had like 5 or 10 or 15,000 Watts for free all the time.

Regards,

bi

[Cadman]

For historical reference

http://www.energeticforum.com/222640-post278.html

Clemente used this current distrubutor in his 1908 patent. In the spanish text he refers to 'vueltas' (turns). This name is exclusive used in coils!!. Why did Mr. Figuera represented a supposed resistor with turns instead of a saw-like line as used always in resistors? ....uhmmm??

I think that Clemente was trying to represent an autotrasformer ( a variable transformer, or Variac) . This is another way to distribute the current to each group of coils with the advantage that it has no losses as the resistors (search: loss free resistor). In this case you have different voltages and current in each row of coils.....

I believe this is the first mention of this type of part G. Give credit where credit is due.

CM

[seaad]

Let's cry

So why does MM say that Figuera used an iron core?

- so he can rule over his minions by pretending to know everything

- and let the show go on until eternity without himself building anything or in slow motion
- or explaining how the Figuera OU really occurs If it at all occurs? We have not seen any proof of a single mW OU from him yet!

Some examples from the builder thread sounds like he met and talked to Figuera yesterday. I.E Master suppression techniques

#135 "Now why do you think Figuera used a deep core and thick wire"
#317 "all that extra field interaction is why Figuera chose wide wire."
#332 "yes Figuera used a cylinder of Iron in which his loop diameter of his thick wire were VERY LARGE and"
#365 "that is why Figuera used thick wire on his primaries as this allows many of them to be added with no strain on the system what so ever."
#377 "Figuera built the device with reluctance in mind" he said when I met him yesterday

In the post #2072 above the patent talks about "resistanse" But is converteded to: "how do you explain the high self inductance"

In my simulator experiments the difference in efficiency factors between G-part with Resistors respective Inductanses is small: 60% to 65%

When we got the Figuera COP= 200 The choice of Resistors respective Inductanses . doesn't matter! . We don't know if the G-part is involved into creation of OU anyhow!

First find the OU-principle then improve the G-part.

Regards Arne

[bistander]

Part G

QUOTE;

"is placed in communication with the commutator bars or contacts of a ring distributor or cylinder whose contacts are in communication with a resistance whose value varies from a maximum to a minimum and vice versa, according with the commutator bars of the cylinder which operates, and for that reason the resistance is connected to the electromagnets N by one of its side, and the electromagnets S at the other side, in such a way that the excitatory current will be magnetizing successively with more or less strength to the first electromagnets, while, oppositely, will be decreasing or increasing the magnetization in the second ones, determining these variations in intensity of the magnetic field."

Now, while it doesn't say it specifically, the commutator bars are actually the winding around the cylinder which are the resistance connected to set N and set S. why, because of the way the wire is drawn. if the wire is squigly lines it is a coil not a resistor and the fact that if the wire aka commutator bars are wrapped around the cylinder then how do you explain the high self inductance.

air core inductors have VERY LITTLE self inductance so what is the easiest way to increase self inductance, YEP, WITH AN IRON CORE.
Sorry but Figuera did not use an air core inductor the same as he did NOT use resistors, because the are not efficient but an iron core ring, cylinder or toroid will be in the 98 to 99 % efficiency rating so then you have to stop and think, if possible, why would Figuera design a really awesome device that has a crappy efficiency rating.

HE WOULDN'T!
So put yourself in that time period and use your brain God gave you to figure out what he would use with the materials at hand.

it is easy to sit half way around the world running your mouth behind the screen telling someone they are totally wrong when you know NOTHING of the said device. i guess that is a whole lot easier then proving ME, Doug or Figuera wrong for that matter.

Use your brains for a change instead of a doily holder. a cotton swab in those ears might help also and try opening you VERY CLOSED MINDS.

LET THE CRYING BEGIN.

MM

So you're sure he used this approach as depicted in these diagrams?

[IMG][/IMG]

I post below your (speaking of MM) design included in PJK ebook some months ago.

Because that doesn't work. The rotating brush on the continuously wound ferris toroid core was said to have critical problems by seaad and me. Netica built and tested to find it didn't work. So he opened the winding on the toroid connecting those leads to the primaries. This worked for him using the switching commutator separate from the toroid. Ufo built his part G using the open winding on the toroid and separate comm. The fact that the winding cannot be continually wound on the toroid core connecting its start and finish and function properly precludes commutating directly on those windings with a brush rotating in continuous motion. This became clear to me when I was analyzing those recent designs by Ufo.

I think you're all wet claiming Figuera used an iron toroid core for part G with copper commutator bars embedded in insulating material over the iron. I think, as the patent shows, he had a separate switching commutator and R, where R was a gang of resistors or maybe inductors.

Regards,

bi

[marathonman]

cylinder

QUOTE;

"is placed in communication with the commutator bars or contacts of a ring distributor or cylinder whose contacts are in communication with a resistance whose value varies from a maximum to a minimum and vice versa, according with the commutator bars of the cylinder which operates, and for that reason the resistance is connected to the electromagnets N by one of its side, and the electromagnets S at the other side, in such a way that the excitatory current will be magnetizing successively with more or less strength to the first electromagnets, while, oppositely, will be decreasing or increasing the magnetization in the second ones, determining these variations in intensity of the magnetic field."

Now, while it doesn't say it specifically, the commutator bars are actually the winding around the cylinder which are the resistance connected to set N and set S. why, because of the way the wire is drawn. if the wire is squigly lines it is a coil not a resistor and the fact that if the wire aka commutator bars are wrapped around the cylinder then how do you explain the high self inductance.

air core inductors have VERY LITTLE self inductance so what is the easiest way to increase self inductance, YEP, WITH AN IRON CORE.
Sorry but Figuera did not use an air core inductor the same as he did NOT use resistors, because the are not efficient but an iron core ring, cylinder or toroid will be in the 98 to 99 % efficiency rating so then you have to stop and think, if possible, why would Figuera design a really awesome device that has a crappy efficiency rating.

HE WOULDN'T!
So put yourself in that time period and use your brain God gave you to figure out what he would use with the materials at hand.

it is easy to sit half way around the world running your mouth behind the screen telling someone they are totally wrong when you know NOTHING of the said device. i guess that is a whole lot easier then proving ME, Doug or Figuera wrong for that matter.

Use your brains for a change instead of a doily holder. a cotton swab in those ears might help also and try opening you VERY CLOSED MINDS.

LET THE CRYING BEGIN.

MM

[bistander]

Part G iron core

PS. Bistander, the reference to an iron core in part G is not lost in the translation process. It is not mentioned in the original text. It just says insulated material.

So why does MM say that Figuera used an iron core?

[hanon1492]

I have no idea how did you come up with those Primary-Secondary ratios to current limit formulas [(R+1)/R]...but anyways they show the below reasoning:

Which means that when we have R=2 then we only need to use 1.5 (say amps?..or what unit is that result given in?) as the current ratio limit value, still doing the same job at the induced...so, less current for same induced output...

Resuming that it is better to use a 2 to 1 ratio (R=2) as established on Figuera Patent from 1908...instead of a 1:1 ratio (R=1)


Ufopolitics

Erroneous reasoning/conclusion. I meant max/min current ratio not absolute values.

On the other hand, the higher the electromagnet force the higher the induction.

Bye

PS. Bistander, the reference to an iron core in part G is not lost in the translation process. It is not mentioned in the original text. It just says insulated material.

The energy stored in any inductor ( or toroidal inductor) is given by E = 1/2•L•I^2 (in joules). Anyone can do numbers and judge how much energy the toroidal part G can store, and see what I meant months ago... ( L about 0.050 H or so)

[bistander]

Induction motor

From Wikipedia: wound rotor motor.

A wound-rotor motor is a type of induction motor where the rotor windings are connected through slip rings to external resistances. ...

Compared to a squirrel-cage rotor, the rotor of the slip ring motor has more winding turns; the induced voltage is then higher, and the current lower, than for a squirrel-cage rotor.

Insinuates that the squirrel cage is a winding with turns (happens to a single turn) and voltage induced and current flowing. So the rotor produces a field at all speeds (except synchronous).

I agree: off topic. However Doug did bring it up and if you recall Ufo, I also had used it as an example of a machine with a moving magnetic field cutting coils in a stationary surrounding when the motor is stalled. I replied to Doug with the same but I don't think he gets it either.

BTW, that cap is only used for starting single phase induction motors because single phase induction motors have zero starting torque. The cap creates an out of phase component in an auxiliary winding to give the pulsating stator field some asymmetry causing a torque at start-up. Many will have centrifugal switch to cut out the winding and cap once speed is obtained.

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Ufo,

I already said the Doug's description was correct. It is MM's idea that the two fields are separate that is wrong. Also you have now added another wrong piece of information. The rotor IS NOT just a magnetized inert steel drum. Take apart a squirrel cage motor and you will see the rotor has windings on it. These windings act like the secondary of the transformer and create the counter field to the stator windings to create the torque. If there were no windings on the rotor then all that would be induced would be a bunch of eddy currents with no direction and no counter force.

Here is a link to how a squirrel cage motor works with pictures of the conductors or windings in the rotor:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel-cage_rotor

Respectfully,
Carroll

Hello Citfta,

That squirrel cage could "barely" be called "windings"...plus it is not insulated to the steel drum and shorted in every joint.

Let me ask you...did the Tesla Egg of Columbus had also a "squirrel cage" built in?

Absolutely not!...it was just a ball of copper shaped into an egg...

Nikola Tesla, at the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition,[1] demonstrated a device he constructed known as the "Egg of Columbus." It was used to demonstrate and explain the principles of the rotating magnetic field model and the induction motor. Tesla's Egg of Columbus performed the feat of Columbus with a copper egg in a rotating magnetic field. The egg spins on its major axis, standing on end due to gyroscopic action.

This so called "Conductors" which happens that could be made of either Copper or Aluminum...and which are completely shorted out to steel drum (no insulation whatsoever) ...can not absolutely conduct any flow of currents nor do nothing but behave like the type of material they are naturally...Diamagnetic.

Diamagnetic materials are repelled by a magnetic field; an applied magnetic field creates an induced magnetic field in them in the opposite direction, causing a repulsive force. In contrast, paramagnetic and ferromagnetic materials are attracted by a magnetic field. Diamagnetism is a quantum mechanical effect that occurs in all materials; when it is the only contribution to the magnetism the material is called diamagnetic.

So, this "Squirrel Cage" deal...is just to generate a Diamagnetic Structure which combined with the steel laminations aligns with the +/- fields from AC Stator into attractions repulsions to achieve rotation.

Anyways, all this off topic...if you agreed with Doug's full comment (which I never read before, but you are stating here now...) then there is no point for Us taking this any further.

Thanks and Regards


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

separate

The last time i checked, parting ways mean SEPARATE.

You really enjoy arguing don't you people.
it's pathetic.
and i doubt you people will ever build anything.
BUT WHO CARE RIGHT. AS YOUR STOPPING EVERYONE ELSE.

EXCEPT THE CONTINUUM

MM

[citfta]

Hello Citfta,

I will put the whole exact mail as Doug send it, since MM just forwarded to me:



And as far as my knowledge about plain AC Induction Squirrel Cage Motors goes...that is exactly as Doug establishes on above Analogy with the Figuera device.


Where the Primaries Static Electromagnets provide the Motion of the Rotating Field, which is projected into the secondaries (Induced) exactly the same way as it takes place in the Rotor which is just an inert piece of steel drum with a shaft...mounted on bearings.

The Stator Field projected into the Rotor steel drum produces a Counter Magnetic Effect (Lenz), and it is this interaction between both fields, inducing and induced which creates motion.

The changing AC Field in Stator produces a series of straight-reversed fields, and so opposite to sinewave is at rotor...a very similar to Figuera dual opposed sinewaves takes place there, one for stator and other for rotor.

If both would be just one or synchronized within same wave...then there would not be motion at all...but just result in a magnetized static steel drum.

Shut DC on an Induction motor and see if it spins...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi Ufo,

I already said the Doug's description was correct. It is MM's idea that the two fields are separate that is wrong. Also you have now added another wrong piece of information. The rotor IS NOT just a magnetized inert steel drum. Take apart a squirrel cage motor and you will see the rotor has windings on it. These windings act like the secondary of the transformer and create the counter field to the stator windings to create the torque. If there were no windings on the rotor then all that would be induced would be a bunch of eddy currents with no direction and no counter force.

Here is a link to how a squirrel cage motor works with pictures of the conductors or windings in the rotor:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel-cage_rotor

Respectfully,
Carroll

[Ufopolitics]

I am reposting this quote from the forbidden thread because it is very wrong.

MM quote:
I thank you Doug for this EXCELLENT ANALOGY as it helped many people with their overall assessment of the operation of the Figuera device. well except for a slithering few i don't want to mention.

in other words, when the primaries impart induction into the secondary and currant begins to flow in the secondary connected to a load, the lenz law will kick in and impart another field in the secondary causing the primary and secondary fields to be completely separate thus allowing the primary opposing fields to be the motive force that basically pushes the independent secondary field from side to side in the core provided the secondary is connected to a load and having some resistance.
End quote.

I have highlighted the incorrect part of MM's statement. The primary field and secondary field are still very much connected in the motor example that Doug used. Why it would be any different in the Figuera Device is what I don't understand and it so far has not been explained.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Hello Citfta,

I will put the whole exact mail as Doug send it, since MM just forwarded to me (Please forgive me Doug and MM, but I have to be blunt here, since I find it as an excellent Analogy that could enlighten many here...):

Bi stander and cifta might want to remember how a squirrel cage motor works. There is no current or voltage going into the rotor. It develops it's own current through induction and establishes it's own magnetic field only as a result of the relative motion between the rotating field and the core. If the core catches up to the rotating field the relative motion is reduced and the current in the rotor reduces slowing down the rotor until the relative motion is fast enough to induce a stronger field in the rotor so it can be pushed around by the rotating field again.

They don't combine into mutual fields as that would stop the relative motion. Without having a rotating rotor like the squirrel cage motor to provide the difference between the rotating field and the induced field on the rotor it takes a bit of creative thinking to accomplish the same effect in a stationary condition of the cores in clemente's generator.

Maybe that will resonate with they're classical training. There is no electrical connection from primary to secondary and after induction in the secondary from the primary's, it produces current around the secondary (Y) which creates another field inside Y they part company and the primaries become the motive force that exerts motion onto Y provided Y is a closed circuit with resistance of it's own*.

And as far as my knowledge about plain AC Induction Squirrel Cage Motors goes...that is exactly as Doug establishes on above Analogy with the Figuera device.

Where the Primaries Static Electromagnets provide the Motion of the Rotating Field, which is projected into the secondaries (Induced) exactly the same way as it takes place in the Rotor which is just an inert piece of steel drum with a shaft...mounted on bearings.

The Stator Field projected into the Rotor steel drum produces a Counter Magnetic Effect (Lenz Field), and it is this interaction between both fields, inducing and induced which creates motion.

The changing AC Field in Stator produces a series of straight-reversed fields, and so an opposite sinewave appears at rotor...a very similar to Figuera dual opposed sinewaves takes place there, one for stator and other for rotor.

If both would be just one or synchronized within same wave...then there would not be motion at all...but just result in a magnetized static steel drum, vibrating at 60 Hz. meaning fields are then "very" sync.

Shut DC on an Induction motor and see if it spins...it would just "lock" rotor.

* In Figuera, when we load, meaning close the secondaries coils, then the field originated at the iron cores before load becomes stronger, and once we get the Figuera stabilized by being self excited, then it would have a constant phantom load like normal generators have...which would maintain this strong opposite field on secondaries (as in an induced steel rotor drum) even without external load...Then the power required to bounce back and forth this constant induced field would be at minimal expense by the primaries...same exact way as in the induction motor...where the initial stage some even require a "Starting Cap"...but after is running, no longer need it...and operates at very low energy consumption.


Regards


Ufopolitics