Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[Ufopolitics]

Why has nobody done it since his one and only working device? 115 years ago.

Because of the way most People "handle" the "REPLICATION" of a Patent, for example, if you look at the post#151 here, then keep scrolling down...you will notice how they start "corrupting" the Original Idea on Patent...because "bunch of resistors are non sense"...then..." why seven primaries?...Then... "I will use Transformers"...or..." I will use an LC Circuit", or "I will use transistor simple switching instead of a Small Motor and Commutator"...and so on and on they end up with a completely different set up as it was meant to be...

Then LOGICALLY FAIL all this time to be able to REPLICATE the Main Patent Principle.

All of this by NOT LOOKING at the MAIN, INVISIBLE FACT taking place here...which are based on Moving the Magnetic Fields ALONE over the Secondaries with THE SAME PRESSURES.

I agree that it could be done in many other ways...BUT, WITHOUT REALLY Understanding the Main Principle it absolutely WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Moving magnetic fields are not uncommon in stationary machinery having coils within those fields. Yet there is no evidence of power in excess of that predicted using conventional methods and theory. For example; a stalled 3-phase wound rotor induction motor. And polyphase linear motors would see this condition frequently. If such Figuera phenomena existed, you'd think the driving electronics for those linear actuators would be blowing up left and right.

I honestly can not see your logic above...

Could You please explain, how would a stalled 3 Phase wound rotor would "see" this same principle??!!

Or a linear Polyphase Motor?

All this things you have mentioned are using AC Sinewave...this is about a DC always Positive Exciting signal.

Any of those machines you have mentioned above, just by stalling... would do that?...please explain.

I'm not sold on the idea by a long shot. Doesn't mean I'm not interested. And I'd really like to see you guys give it your best shot. That's why I try to give some helpful hints. I have an extensive background in electric machinery, both theoretical and hands-on. Nothing would please me more than a verifiable successful prototype.

bi

I will "sell" you the idea......But Do You have the Money to buy it??!!......and it is great you will be able to help us with your expertise.



Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

To Uf0;

"So far we only have TWO Choices to FLUCTUATE CURRENTS:

1- By Resistance.

2- By Inductance/Reluctance."


Just had to get on here to disagree with your post.
The 3rd and BEST way for varying current is to use fets.
I'm sure you are quite familiar with fets, unless you've been
living under a rock all these years!

To ElCheapo,

I am quite familiar with FET's...and I have done many Motor Controllers, Voltage Regulators, SEPIC and regular Buck, Boost Converters, etc,etc... which are based on Ultra high Switching FET's with very low Rds On...and several FET's blocks with very nice heat sinks...

I have displayed here many times, many of those devices that range from 555 timers all the way to Monster Pulsers...and that was back four years ago...

So, if you never watch them...then it was you living under a rock...

I have never attempted the use of power hungry resistors.

This is a point about this Thread that I can not really understand at all.

Resistors IS THE BASIC EXAMPLE to fluctuate currents as stated by Figuera, and so far I have not seen, not even one set up which has been produced here showing an organized HIGH WATTAGE resistor set at work...

If someone would have proven by resistors the MAIN PRINCIPLE HERE, long time ago...it would have avoided many, but I mean many arguments related to which one works fine or not!!

Resistors would definitively show (even being a primitive method) that MAIN PRINCIPLE WORKS, A PROOF OF MAIN CONCEPT HERE, whether it can self sustain or not...it would prove very simple that fluctuating both fields over secondaries will generate a STRONG INDUCED EMF at Secondaries.

And by using LOW RESISTANCE PRIMARIES along with High Power resistors, properly heat sunk, ventilated with cheap, very cheap brushless fans, which consume nickel and dimes in power...will absorb most of the HEAT on the Circuit, so working with Low Resistance Primaries will NOT get Hot during a long period of testing.

My system is just 2 npn power fets driven in unison with
6 to 12 volts for the hi and 4 to 6 volts for the low.
With just 10 or 12 volts you can get a coil current of 10-11 amps.
Some of these fets can supply hundreds of amps. So What's the problem?

The problem?...I will tell you up front:

First, NPN will not work, this is about switching the HIGH SIDE, meaning Positive, N-CHANEL FET's will pulse negative (LOW) Side.

Need PNP FET's, High Side, P-Chanel.

Second, Only Two FET's will not do it either, (even being PNP), all you have there is a very poor and radical, steep, "Push-Pull" wave based on Two Alternated On-Off, FET's need to be STEPPED in the Wave Ladder Sequence through TIME, and may need a block of FET;s per step.

You may obtain a "Triangle Wave" by using some short delay over time (Eg:resistors, caps or whatever else) on rise-fall times, but that will not work, each step UP and DOWN needs to be STRONG SWITCHING of different levels of POWER SENT, maintaining SAME FORCE Up and Down on the Fluctuating Fields, and not falling or rising based on delay inertia over time. This is not just about reaching a Top Peak then free fall to a Bottom Peak...

Third, Transistor Switching alone IS NOT ALL, FET's are just electronic Switching relays, meaning either ON or OFF, period. Their rise-fall Times are abrupt, steep, radical.
You need to consider adding the FET Driving IC which Generates the SMOOTH but STRONG WAVE SEQUENCE To different FET's Arrays.

Fourth, Using that Low Voltage will NOT work, no matter how many more amps you add. A Higher VA, which will build the strong Spatial Magnetic Field with ROBUST Primaries is required for this Device, I wrote it before, there is a minimal VA Required to achieve strong fluctuations which generate the required EMF at Secondaries.

There is a HUGE, RADICAL SWITCHING DIFFERENCE, when using Commutator Plates contacting Carbon Brush in a SOLID, ROBUST WAY, RISING UP and DOWN FALL (meaning at ALL Times) no matter if Resistance or Inductance is used to achieve the POWER SCALE UP-DOWN.

I said it before, but I'll say it again. It's the TOTAL current going
to the 2 primaries that eliminates BEMF.

Do not agree above either, only current will NOT do it alone, You need the SUITABLE Voltage to DRIVE those Currents.

eg: coil A gets 8 amps on hi while coil B gets 2 amps on low. Total current= 10 amps.
On next pulse: coil A gets 2 amps while coil B gets 8 amps. So still only 10 amps of total current consumption.
With no change in current there'll be no change in emf.
With no change in emf, THERE WILL BE NO BEMF.
Read the patent which says " the current is CONSTANT".
Figueras uses the word "simple".
Well it can't get any simpler than this!

Wrong again...the drop is ABOVE 50% NO LESS on the Low Primary, IF NOT, the too low driven primary will loose magnetic pressure, and the High will be PREVAILING, creating a "rushed advance" over the low one, then Induction will collapse.

I have to agree with Patrick Kelly when he says that it's the use of the 2 primaries that cuts out Lenz.

Some will say that any coil with a changing current will always produce a bemf.
This is only true when using just one coil. Does not apply for 2 properly balanced primaries.

BTW: At post #151, Satchid suggests a very similiar system to yours.

Agree, Two Primaries will form a higher pressurized magnetic field from both ends to a common centered volume, no BEMF could ever fight this way.

Have no idea what you are talking about on Satchid and "my system"...which system?



Take care



Ufopolitics

[seaad]

About the MM COP 3 Unit:

Turion question: http://www.energeticforum.com/292320-post923.html

MM answer: http://www.energeticforum.com/292324-post926.html

MM: "300 watts out with 100 in - not self sustaining" . . Why not self sustaining?? .Why??

MM: "i sold it to someone" . . If I was totally broke I should NEVER sell my first WORKING OU DEVICE !!


I wrote before:
Meanwhile we are waiting for the minute of truth to be reached in the forbidden thread we others have to search what is causing OU in the Figuera concept.

If MM gets economical funds enough to build:
A WORKING OU UNIT should just POP UP easily. Because MM already knows the concept from the COP 3 unit test!
IF he fails then we can ask the question about the MM COP 3 Unit again.


I think UFOpolitics is right in this: "..and Buforn was just a Clown, who did not know absolutely nothing from the original device, he kept copycatting into other patents on His name." so I think all /Buforn/ patents younger than PATENTE DE CLEMENTE FIGUERA (1908) No. 44267 can be left out when we are trying to find the solution.

AND I know that simulations belongs to "This wold" / Arne

[hanon1492]

Marathonman,

When I said you lied I meant this:

On the 10th of september you posted your COP 3 device parameters (I just added the red color to highlight the important part):

....
input was 50 volts @ 2 amp.

output was 40 volts per core series to 80 volts @ 3.75 amp.

wire used for resistance was Nichrome wire either 60 or 80, but can't make out the rest.

it is easy to calculate with Ohm calculator like ...

Currently you are posting:

4. the secondaries will never put out more then the primary induction thus the loop back feature Figuera designed into his device allows the power to be reused or recycled throughout the system. without part G's core/ inductor features and the second secondary loop back this device will never be self sustaining no matter how hard you try.

Whether you like it or not, both statement can no be true at the same time. In which one are you including false information? Supposedly your COP 3 device was a real device built with resistive wire and tested by you...

[hanon1492]

Marathonman,

Quote from patent 57955 (Buforn, 1914) in page 12




What I see is that while the change in the current will be continuous and organized (you call it "in unison") the main objective is accomplished. The key feature is to get those two requirements. Yo can do it with resistance, with inductance, with electronics, with a magnetic amplifier,...

[Elcheapo]

fets

To Uf0;

"So far we only have TWO Choices to FLUCTUATE CURRENTS:

1- By Resistance.

2- By Inductance/Reluctance."


Just had to get on here to disagree with your post.
The 3rd and BEST way for varying current is to use fets.
I'm sure you are quite familiar with fets, unless you've been
living under a rock all these years!
I have never attempted the use of power hungry resistors.
My system is just 2 npn power fets driven in unison with
6 to 12 volts for the hi and 4 to 6 volts for the low.
With just 10 or 12 volts you can get a coil current of 10-11 amps.
Some of these fets can supply hundreds of amps. So What's the problem?

I said it before, but I'll say it again. It's the TOTAL current going
to the 2 primaries that eliminates BEMF.

eg: coil A gets 8 amps on hi while coil B gets 2 amps on low. Total current= 10 amps.
On next pulse: coil A gets 2 amps while coil B gets 8 amps. So still only 10 amps of total current consumption.
With no change in current there'll be no change in emf.
With no change in emf, THERE WILL BE NO BEMF.
Read the patent which says " the current is CONSTANT".
Figueras uses the word "simple".
Well it can't get any simpler than this!

I have to agree with Patrick Kelly when he says that it's the use of the 2 primaries that cuts out Lenz.

Some will say that any coil with a changing current will always produce a bemf.
This is only true when using just one coil. Does not apply for 2 properly balanced primaries.

BTW: At post #151, Satchid suggests a very similiar system to yours.

[hanon1492]

For 103 years the patent from 1908 was buried into the patent archives.

As I do not believe in witches I do not go into witches forums to post there.

I can not understand why you dedicate your time here if you do not believe in any device. What do you expect here? A theory full of integrals, differential equations and dark matter particules which may convice you to believe that maybe current models are not complete from the time that Einstein buried the problem to fit the homopolar generators into current version of Maxwell equations with a patch theory??

Good luck then

[bistander]

Come on Bistander!!! You can not compare Figuera with that felow... I really thought you were developing some affection toward Figuera.

If you want a more organized summary you can read this next link. Also read the page "Timeline" into this link for more newpaper clippings and interviews done in 1902: https://figueragenerator.wordpress.com/history/

In 1902 Figuera was quite known in Canary Islands because of his generator. He powered his house with it and the surplus energy was used to power some streets around his house, which was a marvel in those times. There were many witnesses and reporters. He sold his 1902 patents to a Banking Union and everything vanished... for 6 years until 1908. He filed his last patent in 1908 and died 3 days later. I think he may be ill and just filed his last patent as his legacy.

Bistander, The more important feature for your unbelieving feeling is that Figuera was a very respectfull person. He worked as engineer for the State, range First Class Inspector. Being an
engineer in those times was the same as being almost located in the high society. He did not need money because he possibly was quite wealthy. He did not need to invent a fantastic story to spoil his well settled life.

And his simple principle was to move the massless fields instead of moving heavy coils to get a relative velocity between the magnetic field and the wires. E = v•B

Why has nobody done it since his one and only working device? 115 years ago.

Moving magnetic fields are not uncommon in stationary machinery having coils within those fields. Yet there is no evidence of power in excess of that predicted using conventional methods and theory. For example; a stalled 3-phase wound rotor induction motor. And polyphase linear motors would see this condition frequently. If such Figuera phenomena existed, you'd think the driving electronics for those linear actuators would be blowing up left and right.

I'm not sold on the idea by a long shot. Doesn't mean I'm not interested. And I'd really like to see you guys give it your best shot. That's why I try to give some helpful hints. I have an extensive background in electric machinery, both theoretical and hands-on. Nothing would please me more than a verifiable successful prototype.

bi

[hanon1492]

really disgusting especially since that person knows absolutely NOTHING about the Figuera device but is so unintelligent to even understand a patent.

the funny thing is through a program i have, i have found out where the prick lives down to the street address. maybe a person to person visit is in order in the future
i would thoroughly enjoy the expression on his face as i showed my gratitude for all the aggravation.

MM

How can I define you better than what you are showing day by day?



My only aim here is to defend the patent teachings and promote this device. You are the one who want to distort it saying that just your design will work. I kept the original spanish text together with the english translation to keep every detail from the original, and be sure that in the future any person may read the original words, and now you come "reading between lines" and inventing a bunch of restrictions. Come on!!!

Your theory in a nutshell: What it is written in the patent does not work. Nobody understand the patent but myself. The only thing that work is my design. My design is not described in the patent, and I am building it right now.

I just say that your design will work because it moves the fields. But there are other possibilities to move the fields.Open your mind. Is it so hard to digest it? I told you that you lied because you said 3 months ago that your COP 3 device, that you said you sold it later, used resistance wire and now you say that resistors wont work and just your toroid may work. I do not want to waste my time looking for that quotes but maybe I should do it.

PS. The buyer of your old COP 3 device with resistors may ask you for a refund if the device does not work with those resistors...

[hanon1492]

Come on Bistander!!! You can not compare Figuera with that felow... I really thought you were developing some affection toward Figuera.

If you want a more organized summary you can read this next link. Also read the page "Timeline" into this link for more newpaper clippings and interviews done in 1902: https://figueragenerator.wordpress.com/history/

In 1902 Figuera was quite known in Canary Islands because of his generator. He powered his house with it and the surplus energy was used to power some streets around his house, which was a marvel in those times. There were many witnesses and reporters. He sold his 1902 patents to a Banking Union and everything vanished... for 6 years until 1908. He filed his last patent in 1908 and died 3 days later. I think he may be ill and just filed his last patent as his legacy.

Bistander, The more important feature for your unbelieving feeling is that Figuera was a very respectfull person. He worked as engineer for the State, range First Class Inspector. Being an
engineer in those times was the same as being almost located in the high society. He did not need money because he possibly was quite wealthy. He did not need to invent a fantastic story to spoil his well settled life.

And his simple principle was to move the massless fields instead of moving heavy coils to get a relative velocity between the magnetic field and the wires. E = v•B

[bistander]

References

Thanks Ufo,

Only had time to skim through those references. Look interesting. I'll take more time later. The main thing, most important thing is no quantitative test or analysis. Only a mention of a device having been observed running in Mr. Figuera's home without testament of by whom or any specific operating conditions concerning the device.

I just see a lot of talk and no substance. Except for 100 years, what's the difference between Figuera and Keshe?

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Figuera's Short Fame...

What were the honours, praises and distinguishments bestowed upon Mr. Figuera over a century ago which so rapidly slipped into obscurity such that I'd never heard his name until the likes of this thread? And where are the huge consequences of his invention? Certainly no enormous industrial revolution happened.

He implies, no, he states it is based on a simple principle. Most things are. He is surprised no other has done what he had achieved. What was his achievement? What is that simple principle?

Is there a reference in English where I can read the context from which the subject quote was lifted?

Thanks,

bi

Hello Bistander,

Yes, there are several old copies from many different newspapers...Electric Magazines, Edu notes, etc,etc.

California Digital Paper Collection

The New Education

Western Electrician

Papers Past

Also an Industrial Engineer :J.M Bolibar tested the Device (1907, at Buforn request) and wrote its conformity with Industrial Property Law...Here

Below is the report:

Test of Prototype Spanish Patent # 47706

July 9, 1913

GERONIMO BOLIBAR
Engineer-Industrial Property Agent
Barcelona

Honorable Sir,

In compliance with Article 100 of the Law of Property May 16, 1902 I have the honor to transmit to you a certificate signed by engineer D. Jose Ma Bolibar y Pinós crediting to have conducted measures of practical implementation of the patent No. 47706 issued on June 6, 1910 in favor of Constantine Buforn by an “Electrical Generator "Universal". God preserve you many years.

Barcelona June 5, 1913.
Signed: Gerónimo Bolibar

To: Illustrious Lord Chief Registrar of Industrial Property

D. Jose Ma Bolibar y Pinós, Industrial Engineer, at the request of D. Constantine Buforn, patentee of invention No. 47706.
Certify: That I have examined the material consisting of original memory corresponding to said background patent, issued on June 6, 1910, for "A GENERATOR OF ELECTRICITY" UNIVERSAL "which consists essentially of a series of inducer electromagnets combined with a series of electromagnets or induced coils, a switch and comprising a brush or rotary switch, which makes contact successively on the series of fixed contacts and get a continuous variation of the current flowing through the coils of the inducer electromagnets, developing in this manner a current in induced
coils.

I further certify that provided the necessary reports when they had to come to the knowledge of the conditions under which it is carried out the exploitation of this patent, that D. Constantine Buforn exploitation of this patent in the street Universidad No. 110 ground floor, of this city, having of all the elements necessary for the construction, in the proportion rational for its use, of electricity generators which are described and characterized in the memory of that patent.

For all these reasons, I consider the above patent implementation in accordance with Article 98 provided in the current Industrial Property Law.

And for the record I issue this in the city of Barcelona on June 5, 1913.

Signed: J.M. Bolibar

&c...

Number 47706
July 9, 1913

Photocopies from the Original Documents from the testing

More Articles from Magazines and News...

An Interview To Figuera:

INTERVIEW With CLEMENTE FIGUERA ( 1902 )

Mr. Clemente Figuera. - The name of the conscientious and intelligent engineer, Inspector of mountains in Canary, is now universally known, thanks to the news published by the press about the generator of his invention for producing far-reaching consequences, because it constitutes a valuable element in modern mechanics, solving problems which will influence powerfully in most industries.

The meritable engineer states in a recently published work. - "With persistent effort nature keeps its secrets, but man´s intelligence, the most precious gift due to the divine artist, author of all creation, allows that slowly and at the cost of thousands studies and works, the human race realize that God's work is more perfect and harmonious than it looks at first sight.

There was no need to create a agent for each kind of phenomenon, nor varying forces to produce the multiple motions, nor so many substances as varieties of bodies are present to our senses; In doing so, it was proceeding worthy of a least wise and powerful creator that that, with a single matter and a single impulse given to an atom, started in vibration all cosmic matter, according to a law from which the others are natural and logical consequences”

And later he adds: "The twentieth century has given us the mercy of discovering its program in general lines. It will stop using the hackneyed system of transformations, and it will take the agents where the nature has them stored. To produce heat, light or electricity, it will rely on the suitable vibratory motion because nature´s available storages are renewed constantly and have no end ever. For the next generation, the steam engines will be an antique, and the blackness of coal, will be replaced by the pulchritude of electricity, in factories and workshops, in ocean liners, in railways and in our homes”

So says Mr. Figueras, who is consistent with his scientific creed, has based his significant invention on harnessing the vibrations of the ether, building a device, that he names as Generator Figueras, with the power required to run a motor, as well as powering itself, developing a force of twenty horse power. Should be noted that the produced energy can be applied to all kinds of industries and its cost is zero, because nothing is spent to obtain it. All parts have been built separately in various workshops under the management of the inventor, who has shown the generator running in his home in the city of Las Palmas.

The inventor holds that his generator will solve a portion of problems, including those which are derived from navigation, because a great power can be carried in a very small space, stating that the secret of his invention resembles the egg of Columbus.

With the generator it may be obtained the voltage and amperage required, as direct or alternate currents, producing light, driving force, heat and all the effects of the electricity. It is said that shortly Mr. Figuera will depart to Paris, to constitute a union in charge of the exploitation of his invention.

Due to the gallantry of our good friend, the distinguished photographer of Las Palmas Mr. Luis Ojeda, we thank for making public to our readers a portrait of Mr. Clemente Figueras, to whom we congratulate on his invention, making fervent hopes to produce the expected beneficial results, for the benefit of mankind, for the sake of science and honor of our country, proud to count him among the number of its illustrious sons.

Very Interesting and FULL Text Related to Clemente Figueras here

It is in Spanish at the beginning but it is translated as you scroll down, well, not all of it...unfortunately...and there is what Hanon posted above.


Unfortunately Figuera died right after signing the cited papers with Bankers (probably J.P Morgan, Rockefeller and some)...and Buforn was just a Clown, who did not know absolutely nothing from the original device, he kept copycatting into other patents on His name.


Take care


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Quote questions

Figuera quote
Quote:
“My invention is based on a simple
principle, which is not worth the
warm praises with which I am honored
and distinguished, I can not
understand that anyone did not happen
to do what I’ve been fortunate to
achieve. What actually happens is
that the consequences of the
invention are huge, and will produce
an enormous industrial revolution.”

What were the honours, praises and distinguishments bestowed upon Mr. Figuera over a century ago which so rapidly slipped into obscurity such that I'd never heard his name until the likes of this thread? And where are the huge consequences of his invention? Certainly no enormous industrial revolution happened.

He implies, no, he states it is based on a simple principle. Most things are. He is surprised no other has done what he had achieved. What was his achievement? What is that simple principle?

Is there a reference in English where I can read the context from which the subject quote was lifted?

Thanks,

bi

[hanon1492]

It is a pity because this man is not only discrediting himself, but also is discrediting the serious work of Mr. Figuera with his unpolite posts. I wont go as low as that.


If you take an alternator without any regulator, its exciter electromagnet will not demand more power from the case with the alternator stopped to the case with the alternator running. Do this test.

When running, the alternator suffer from dragging and you need to supply more mechanical power, but the electromagnets consume the same exciting current always. The electronagnets are inmune to the power output in the induced coils. No increase in the electromagnet consumption to get induction. Just dragging is manifested in alternators/generators. They are not as transformers were Lenz manifest as an increase in input current.

Now suppose a generator where nothing moves but the field lines. The electromagnets will not suffer an increase in the consumption, they will be inmune to the power output. And as nothing moves there wont be any dragging.

Just try to get the induction as in common generators: E = v·B

[marathonman]

You r wrong

The biggest liar of them all is HANON, for calling him self a researcher.
WHERE is your research??? YOU HAVE NONE.

if you think anything else will work BUILD IT INSTEAD OF RUNNING YOUR MOUTH. COME ON BACK UP THAT BIG MOUTH WITH SOME SOLID RESEARCH FOOL.

BECAUSE YOU CAN'T. ALL YOU HAVE IS THAT DISAGREEING MOUTH OF YOURS WITH NOTHING BUT HOT AIR TO BACK IT UP.

i lied about NOTHING and i am sick of you acting like a woman. you are a pathetic flaming queen with no research what so ever other then an ant trying to ride off of your translation from four years ago.

stop running your pathetic mouth. get a life or better yet get some research.

we all know i can't f-in stand you because your a complete fake, fraud and many other thing. but all that doesn't matter because in the long run you will still have NOTHING and i will have a new working device.

so SHUT YOUR GD MOUTH when it comes to me. JUST SHUT UP QUEEN and get a life.


use your pathetic resistors, WHO CARES, GO RIGHT A HEAD. you are so unintelligent you can't get past the drawing, now that is stuck on stupid.

spend a hundred dollars a piece on high power resistors and make it work just shut your GD mouth when it comes to me.

GD i am so sick of your mouth.
JUST SHUT THE HELL UP.

AND STAY OFF MY RESEARCH PAGE, FRAUD.