Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[hanon1492]

Hi Elcheapo,

Fron your post I inderstand that you believe that in the post #972 the small steps are at a frequency of 60Hz and the main frequency from peak to peak is at 7.5 Hz. I do not if I inderstood you properly. Really in that post the frequency from peak to peak in the same signal is at 60 Hz. The other steps are just to subdivide the main frequency in each step of the original commutator. Please tell me if this is the misunderstanding

For the guys in the other thread: I am really pleased that you are advancing. It is fine to have another way to regulare the electronagnets. Hate is not my way of living, so I will always congratulate any advance dealing with this device. I only defended that the toroid is not mandatory, as supported there. There are many method to move the two fields in unison. Moving the fields in repulsion and in unison is what is really mandatory.

[Elcheapo]

control

To
Hanon,

"Elcheapo, How are you going to design that control section?"

In your post#972. The top wave-form is the culprit.
I know from your hundreds of different postings that you must know
something about graphics.
To depict a hi freq. & a low frequency on just one page.
The low freq. pulses will be much wider in graphic form than those
of the higher freq. Those narrower 60hz pulses are just modulating
the stronger low freq. wave with little or no amperage effect.
Ya, MM also said my scope was at fault and just hope you're not still subject
to all his brain-washing.
Just open your mind & your 2 eyes while studying that wave-form.
Being in ham radio and electronics for many years I am quite aware of
the filtering effects of coils.

Regarding my control section.
It's a little more complex then the simple one you've shown, but also much
more versatile in that I can set the hi & low levels to whatever I choose.
Instead of the logic ic's, my 555 will pulse a flip-flop circuit.
A Q out for coil A & a Q- for coil B. Not directly of course.
Each of these q outlets will then turn on a 2n2222 transistor which will then
turn on 2 opto-isolator switches that will feed 12 volts to 2 mini-pots that set the bias to the 2 mosfets
which controls the current to the primaries.
one mini-pot for mosfet A and another for B. So we need 4 mini-pots.

The opto switches are to islolate the 4 adjustments to be independent of each other.

Hard to explain so l`ll try and draw out a schematic for you.

[Elcheapo]

To
seaad,

you are right the wave I'm referring to is nothing more than a hi-pulsed
low frequency wave being modulated by a low-pulsed 60hz wave.
And yes, the dc input power is always constant as well as the input voltage.
So no more troublesome BEMF. Only the magnetic field changes.
You'll be getting very little voltage into the secondary because of that very
low frequency.
Keep up the good experimenting.

[hanon1492]

Elcheapo,
I can not understand how you are just getting a frequency of 7.5 Hz. The frequency deals with the inversse of the time to get a signal repeating itself. Maybe your scope is messing up with the small steps, but even in that case the frequency will much higher (8x 60 Hz) but not 60/8

The pic below is the signals I got with a central tapped transformer with DC bias. Voltages measured across a 0.47 ohm test resistor



When an input signal crosses the electromagnets it get filtered (RL filter) with filter time constant tau = L/R

If you feed a square signal as the one below you will get in the outlet the filtered signal:




Then if you use two pulsed signals with alternating (opposing) pulsed




Then the final signal will be:


A simple circuit to do (frequency regulator + 2 pulsed signals in opposition)

So now I'll be pulsing the 2 coils in unison using just 2 amperage levels. One high and one low.
And of course it makes the control section much simpler.

Elcheapo, How are you going to design that control section?

[seaad]

--> Elcheapo
The Figuera system (your test example) can be seen as a Modulated-DC-system (modulated=AC). The constantly varied DC (ACmod.-part) becomes ==> magnetic fluctuations in the primaries. The DC input power is always constant the same (40.5W, mean value) if the two waves (stairwaves) are equal and opposite in phase, 180deg, to N+S.

The fluctuations in the magnetic field is the only part ( As we, I, know about. Except some new OU-effect ) that can be transferred from primary,s N+S to secondary Y.
For simplicity we assume 100% transfer = 1.5W (the modulated part coming from the DC input power). Power factor N, is: Output power/Input power.

BUT ANYHOW THE DC POWER INPUT IS 27 TIMES THE OUTPUT!!
This is my way seeing this.

I said before that I have made and tested "The Figuera" with mechanical commutator and a G-part, a first simple test. If i remember right the output was only about 1% . / Arne

[Elcheapo]

ac/dc

Seaad.

"BUT ANYHOW THE DC POWER INPUT IS 27 TIMES THE AC INPUT!!"

Should be only dc input.
On your pulse display, the 6 amp & 3 amp pulses are 180 deg. out of phase
which makes it ac. No good for C.F. device.
The coils have to be pulsed in unison which means a zero phase difference
between the high & the low.
What kind of control circuit are you using?
My primaries are wound with 34 feet of #14awg for a resistance of .45 ohms.
Still waiting for more wire to arrive to wind my second coil.

[Elcheapo]

correction

bistander,

"Posts got renumbered when somebody delated a bunch. Is this to which you refer?"

No, that is not the one. I am referring to the one originally posted by kehyo77
which you can can access at post 972 and a few other places.
It's the top wave-form that's supposed work, but doesn't.
Sorry, as I don't post too much I haven't yet figured out how to post images.

[Ufopolitics]

About My Steak...

Seriously Guys...


Whenever you have the resistors hot and running your experiment...(you know we are all here trying to save energy on this Forum...so), if you would be so kind to put my nice Steak on top of resistors for me?

[IMG][/IMG]

But I mean, please, do not over cook it!!, I don't want it "Well Done"!!...but just "Medium Rare"...so I rather don't use Seaad Resistors Stove...as I know he can not control the Flames there...

Please, let me know whenever you are ready...


And I thank you very much -in advance- for doing my Steak...as my Part G barely gets even "warm"...can't do it there!!

Really appreciate it!!


Respectfully


Ufopoliitcs

[seaad]

Rough math

First of all my math can be totally wrong! Please, give the right walues.
This is a quick estimate. The values from Elcheapo. I put the coil resistance to 1 Ohm. I didn't care about reactanse and frequency right now. The power factor can be a bit better with reactanse an frequency included in the math!!

BUT ANYHOW THE DC POWER INPUT IS 27 TIMES THE AC INPUT!! Corr: The AC input assumed to be equal with Output. No transfer loss!

Lets say that the AC/ DC power factor can be improved 10 times then the DC power in is still a major factor to solve. And on top of that WE WANT OU!! / Arne

[bistander]

Before advancing any further on this thread, we have to correct a few errors.
Look at post #972 that shows a nice up & down for the N & S coil pulses.
Unfortunatley there is no frequency given for this wave-form.

Posts got renumbered when somebody delated a bunch. Is this to which you refer?

bi

Ufo,

If you are to test shortly the resistors please take into account that Figuera represented a simplified commutator design to “make easy the understanding” as he literally wrote. I guess he could have used one commutator with two resistors arrays in parallel to get symmetrical signal to each set of coils. If you use just one array then the resistance in one side depends on the resistance in the remaining resistors in the other side of the brush contact. Therefore the two waves wont be symmetrical. Using two arrays in parallel you may get independent resistance in each array and therefore we will get symetrical waves. Some posts ago I linked an Excel file simulating one and two resistor arrays.

I know you love asymmetry but in this case I guess we should look for two symmetrical signals !!

BTW , 47 ohms in each step of resistors is huge. I will point more toward 4.7 ohm in each piece or even less, as low as 1 ohm, if you use the same value in all resistor pieces. And if you want to create a perfect sine wave I would use two resistors arrays with values as those included in the attached image







And below the case for just one resistor array, as drawn in the patent. Note that the higher the resistance of each piece the more asymmetrical waves will be obtained. 1 ohm is fine in each piece for a good shape with 12 V DC source and each set of coils with 7 ohms

[Elcheapo]

pulsing error

Before advancing any further on this thread, we have to correct a few errors.
Look at post #972 that shows a nice up & down for the N & S coil pulses.
Unfortunatley there is no frequency given for this wave-form.
Most people will just assume that if pulsing at 60 hz then the wave-form
also must be at 60hz. Not So!
My scope doesn't assume anything and just shows the frequency as 7.5 hz
at the bottom of the screen.
I was a little confused when I first seen this but after some thought, I realized
it is because of the 2 end pulses appearing at their maximum & minimum levels.
e.g. If at amperage level 1 coil N is set to 6 amps and coil S to 3 amps, then at
amperage level 8 coil N will be at 3 amps & coil S at 6 amps.
Dividing 60 by 8 gives you 7.5hz. Not good if you're trying to get anything out of the secondary.
You can confirm this 7.5hz pulse using the paper clip trick.
If it wobbles back & forth when placed between the 2 coils, then you should know that it must be at a very low frequency.
60hz is too fast to cause any wobbling.
Would be like saying you can see your light-bulb turning off & on 60 times a second!

On the wave-form only 2 cycles are shown with the much smaller intermediate 60 hz steps.
These smaller steps have little or no effect on total coil current.

I really shouldn't say that this wave-form is in error as this is exactly what you'll get when setting the pulse
levels to the way described in the patent. But the way as described just doesn't work. I was getting the same
wave-form on my system and with zero voltage across the secondary because of the very low frequency.
So now I'll be pulsing the 2 coils in unison using just 2 amperage levels. One high and one low.
And of course it makes the control section much simpler.
Thanks Hanon for all the great work you've done on this thread.
Hope you hang in there as we all need you

[hanon1492]

#MakeFigueraGreatAgain


.

[seaad]

Hanon
"My only aim here was to promote this device" Please change the word was to is.
"Dealing with electricity you must never pronounce the word " impossible " "
I just want to make tests and see if it is something on the backside of the coin.
I think Elcheapo post #1561 Back to basics is a good new start even if I right now can't understand how + DC can achieve OU and beat the power losses. Someone show us.. / Arne

PS. About Show, see and contemplate this:
http://www.energeticforum.com/294762-post105.html
http://www.energeticforum.com/294782-post107.html

[hanon1492]

I wish you all good luck in your endeavour into this project. My only aim here was to promote this device and respect the guidelines described in the 1908 patent. I would really love to see this making a huge improvement in the world.

Regards and good luck,

Hanon


Dealing with electricity you must never pronounce the word " impossible "

[seaad]

W Zone

I recommend all involved who wants to "murder" each other to start a new thread: "THE FIGUERA WAR ZONE" !!

Then we others can put forvard ideas, (eaven wild and odd ones) build, test and dicuss these and analyze the results calmly.