Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[hanon1492]

Hi Ufo,

First, thank you for doing such a nice drawings to clarify this patent.

I didn´t see any confict in the diametrical position of magnets because if in one semi-circunference the flux is cutting the wires in a direction then the flux cutting in the opposite side (semi-circunference) has athe relative velocity ,refered to a diametrical wire, in the contrary direction. So in this sense, this patent is right in placing the magnets with contrary flux direction in diametrical opposite sides (up and below the axis for example)

My concern is that -according to the last figure- a wire is cut by a N-S field while is going up in the coil, and also is cut by the same N-S field while it is going down. Then both effects should cancell out. I can not get how you propose to skip this problem. Your sketch keep on showing the same wire going up and later down inside the same field. Am I interpreting wrongly your scheme?

Regards

[shylo]

Agree

Hi Hanon, I'm with you on seeing cancellation.
The only way it wouldn't would be to have an opening in the center ,where the coil could cross over to the opposite side, the coil shaped like a figure 8??
Hi UFO, That drum design is interesting ,but having a hard time understanding How would the coils be wound?

The Hogan gen wouldn't it be a lot easier to just have an entire pole facing its' opposite, with a coil between, then another magnet N Ca S Cb N ,So coil A supplies output to a load ,Coil B supplies output to a different load , and the back emf caused buy both coils being loaded would cancel each other???
artv

[Ufopolitics]

Nope...

Hi Hanon, I'm with you on seeing cancellation.
The only way it wouldn't would be to have an opening in the center ,where the coil could cross over to the opposite side, the coil shaped like a figure 8??

Hello Shylo,
Nope, do not complicate your mind...lol, keep it simple first!

Hi UFO, That drum design is interesting ,but having a hard time understanding How would the coils be wound?

First, analize how coils are induced in a typical generator as we know...use the wires you do not like... or "horizontal" ones... and make them in your mind of a flexible, elastic material...while keeping the vertical, usable for induction ones, rigid...then play with them. spread them along profiles...and you will see that this "cancellation" happens in everyone...it is just that you keep looking in the "past"...or the coils that ALREADY were induced...and yes, they cancel afterwards...but still conduce from the "ACTIVE" ones at the right timing "Momentum"...

There is an AREA on this design, where poles are sweeping fully each coils...then they induce...then stop...while NEXT one comes in...and in nano seconds of rotation.

The Hogan gen wouldn't it be a lot easier to just have an entire pole facing its' opposite, with a coil between, then another magnet N Ca S Cb N ,So coil A supplies output to a load ,Coil B supplies output to a different load , and the back emf caused buy both coils being loaded would cancel each other???
artv

NOPE...if you only have one pole at each side...there would never be a "Change" of Magnetic Flux direction happening at coils...therefore..."No Induction"...or "No Money no Laundry"...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

I like this design...

Hello to All,

I believe this design, as all others have great potential...

Could you stop thinking about the "cancellation" and think where is the B Field from Induction projecting towards?...At what Angles related to the Exciter Fields?

Is it interfering or counter forcing rotation...creating magnetic drag?

Answer those questions first...

I believe those are more important issues...

The only way to test what kind of Flat Disc Drum Winding will work best...only in real practical, building it...will tell you guys...thinking about it will not solve anything but overheat brain.

This Patent could use tons of Improvements, plus extending design to several discs, several induction coils...more energy...


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

[woopy]

Hi Ufo , hannon and all

Very interesting stuff, this Hogan generator

So i have tested something

first i have installed 2 magnets with opposite polarity on my drilling machine.

Than i have taken the secondary of a MOT and put it on the side, and let the magnet spin very near, and i get a very nice sine wave on the scope. (pix 1 and 2 )

Than i have installed the same coil on a free to spin wheel, and shorted the coil to see if Mr. Lenz is acting and it seems he is, because the coil spins on the wheel., If i unload the coil, it doesn't spin at all.

Than i have tried a very thin coil, it works also very well. (coil on the right of pix 3 )

Finally i wound a coil in 360 degree, it i get a very bad and very very weak sine wave. (pix 3 ).

Voila

Hope this helps

Laurent

[Ufopolitics]

Nothing like REAL Testing!

Hi Ufo , hannon and all

Very interesting stuff, this Hogan generator

So i have tested something

first i have installed 2 magnets with opposite polarity on my drilling machine.

Than i have taken the secondary of a MOT and put it on the side, and let the magnet spin very near, and i get a very nice sine wave on the scope. (pix 1 and 2 )

Than i have installed the same coil on a free to spin wheel, and shorted the coil to see if Mr. Lenz is acting and it seems he is, because the coil spins on the wheel., If i unload the coil, it doesn't spin at all.

Than i have tried a very thin coil, it works also very well. (coil on the right of pix 3 )

Finally i wound a coil in 360 degree, it i get a very bad and very very weak sine wave. (pix 3 ).

Voila

Hope this helps

Laurent

Excellent Woopy!

Nothing works better than REAL TESTING!

Only way to find out...so all lazy guys get to work and stop tinkering!!...

By the way...I believe a kind of a whole "Conical Design" like you have woopy, on Pix 3...with higher center build up, due to wires accumulation...so, making magnets tilt a bit creating a Conical "Umbrella" type design at each end of shaft will cover all coils parallel closing air gaps...

Guys, think for a minute...so many Patents telling Us it does work...back from many years ago...trying to prevent what we are doing every day on Symmetrical Generators run by Farting Gas Engines...or having "Face to Face" Interactions, Face to Face both B fields (Exciting and Induced) colliding and creating huge drag...doesn't this tells you anything?!

Thanks again Woopy!


Kind Regards


Ufopolitics

[hanon1492]

Hi all,

This is how I think that this patent may work fine. I a modification to solve the problem of cancelling the opposite effect in each side of the coil in the original drawing (IMO). The winding is exactly as drawn by Ufopolitics previously; this is a type of classical drum winding which crosses the center point diametrically.






Image: Image

In my oppinion the key is :

1. A coil perpendicular to the inducer magnetic field. With this configuration the induced magnetic field will not oppose to the inducer field. There won´t be any opposing field against the magnets.

2. Static wires and moving magnets. With this configuration the wires, being static, will not suffer any dragging force. The dragging force just appears in the wires -where the current is flowing. If the wires are the static part then this problem is skiped, IMO. (The dragging force is calculated as the Lorentz force, F=Intensity•Length•B , and this force just appears in systems with electrical charges in movement. If we place the current into an static part, then -I think- we won´t have this dragging force which usually opposes the movement)

Therefore there won´t be any opposing field neither any dragging force in the wires.

Regards

[woopy]

Thank's Ufo

It is my way to get each day something more to learn and or experiment.

So this one made my day, and i am of course addindg this idea to my general research.

Hi Hanon

good drawing but i don't see how you will insert and fix the diskmagnets inside the wound drum ?

good luck at all

Laurent

[hanon1492]

May The Force Be With You. May The Force Assist You

For deep study:

I think I have discovered a new configuration which may get OU finally. I want to share with you that in a configuration with like poles facing each other the induced magnetic field will not act against the inducer field (as usual) but it seems to reinforce the inducer field in the electromagnet which is increasing in strenght at that moment. In other words: the induction take place to ASSIST the inducer field, not to reduce it, as usually happens in the Lenz effect.




The important idea is to note that induction can take place as consecuence of two different phenomena:

1- Induction by flux cutting the induced wire: This induction is done by the lines of field cutting the wires. This motional emf usually creates a dragging force which acts against the movement. As this is a motionless device there won´t be any dragging force.

E_cut = B·v·Length·sin(Theta)

2- Induction by flux linking two coils: This induction is done by the flux linking two coils. This induction does not need to cut the wires (as happens in transformers). It will create a induced magnetic field that will tend to oppose to the change in the inducer field.

E_link = A·dB/dt

In order to emulate a movable generator into a motionless device it is necessary that the magnetic flux lines cut the induced wires. Therefore we should maximize the induction by flux cutting and minimize the induction by flux linking.

Like poles facing each other: By changing the magnetic strength in both electromagnets (excited with the two opposite signals) the lines of force will repel and will leave the induction iron core. The sequential change in both currents will create a swing of the lines of force back and forth in each cycle, cutting the induced wires which surround the induced core.

The features that will require this configuration are:

Feature 1. Two north poles facing each other N-N in the electromagnets: With this set-up the magnetic field lines will leave the core inside-out. (Maybe two south poles will also work fine. I have just studied the N-N configuration)

Feature 2. Excite with two opposite signals each electromagnet . It will achieve a relative movement of the flux lines cutting the wire back and forth along the whole coil length from side (pole) to side (pole) (that we will name as coil thickness). One magnetic field is increasing and other magnetic field is decreasing, therefore no change in magnetic pressure between them will be created during this swinging motion.

Feature 3. A rectangular shape in the electromagnets an in the induced coil in order to maximize the flux cutting induction and minimize the flux linking induction. The ratio of both effects will be increased with high values of the induced core perimeter and low values of coil area. This is a new feature which is fundamental for a optimized induction.

( E_cut / E_link ) = ( Coil_Perimeter · Coil_thickness) / Coil_Area

Note that the flux linking induction is produced in the part of the coil linked by the inducer flux lines. This induction will produce a counter induced field (as usual). Therefore it is needed to minimize this flux linking effect. We need a ratio E_cut/E_link > 1 because the induction by flux cutting will be the one that won´t produce an opposite Lenz effect because this is a motionless device.

Feature 4. As the flux cutting induction just happens in the zone where the lines are expelled from the core then we need that each turn will be cut during all the time. Therefore, it will be better to wind the induced coil with a tape instead of a wire (the tape must cover the whole coil thickness from side to side). With a tape all the turns will be cut all the time by the flux lines coming out the core. This will not happen with common wires. Tape winding will maximize the flux cutting induction and will minimize the induction by flux linking. I think that tape winding is mandatory for achieving a ratio well over 1.

Conclusion: With this new features I think that this generator will be able to get a much higher induced current than the current used to excite the device. The Lenz effect in this configuration will reinforce (assist) the inducer field which is increasing at that moment in the corresponding electromagnet. This configuration will get the Lenz effect working to make a stronger field instead of making a weaker field, as normally happens.

Link to the PDF file

Other link to the PDF file

Please share your comments and ideas, and tell me if I have made any mistake in this reasoning.

Regards,

Hanon1492


ANNEX - Equations


E_cut= B·v·Length = B·v·N·Coil_perimeter

v=Space/Time = Coil_Thickness/(1/2·Period)= Coil_Thickness·2·Frequency

B=B1+B2 = constant =Bmax

Frequency =1 / Period

E_cut= Bmax·Coil_Thickness·2·Frequency·N·Coil_perimeter
--------------

E_link =N·Area·dB/dt

dB/dt =(Bmax - Bmin)/(1/2·Period) = Bmax·2·Frequency

E_link =Bmax·2·Frequency·Area·N
---------------

E_total =E_cut - E_link = Bmax·2·Frequency·N·(Coil_Thickness·Coil_Perimeter - Area)

[woopy]

Yep hannon

well done

so it would be the Figuerra system but with upper and lower coil set on the same "like " pole

So on the drawing of the very first post of this thread , instead of having on the upper stage a South pole and on the down stage a North pole, we should simply have (for example ) a north pole up stage and also a north pole down stage. ? Right ?
And of course a kind of progressive-regressive flipflop voltage between the both stage , inducing the center coil ??

Very smart thinking bravo

Laurent

[hanon1492]

Hi woopy,

Figuera did not defined clearly the pole orientation.

Literally he wrote in his 1908 patent: "Suppose two series of electromagnets represented by rectangles N and S."

This was all.
Is N and S the real pole orientation or it is just a patent notation trick?

Later on Buforn, his partner, filed 5 more patents and all patents say just THE SAME. Suspicious? After studying it deeply I am almost sure that it was just a patent notation to hide the real orientation while protecting it at the same time! The real orientation is N-N, In my oppinion.

The other misterious sentence in the original patent is: "As nothing moves it is not necessary to have round electromagnets or induced circuit".Again telling it but encrypting the truth. In this study I have shown the reason for a rectangular trasversal shape.

Regards and merry Christmas !

[machinealive]

Hi hanon

Please share your comments and ideas, and tell me if I have made any mistake in this reasoning.

Well, Hanon, you know how I feel about the 2 phase . I think you've done a great job in your reasoning, now gotta build and test. I was thinking more in this line, as well, I been slowed down lately, but this is something I will get to try. Still working through the rotating field.

Thanks for sharing your work hanon.

Merry Christmas

[hanon1492]

Hi all,

I forget to clarify that the two opposite signals must change the intensity field but it is not neccesarry to reverse polarity.

Both signals must be always above zero voltage.



Regards

[MonsieurM]

Check out this patent :

Nilson BARBOSA, et al. -- Earth Energy Generator -- 4 patents

see the poles

Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
October 04, 2013

According the Brazilian newspaper, yesterday the owners of Evoluçoes Energia was taken the police headquarters in Imperatriz, Brazil to explain why they had 2 electric meters normally use by electric concessionary in their lab.

Also, they confiscated every equipment that they had. This include one that a friend of friend bought and was supposed to be installed today.
Very awkward.

[hanon1492]

Thomson Ring

Hi all,

In order to get this device running we need to use two unphased signals, one in each electromagnet.

I have found a system to generate two 90º unphased signals with a very simple method.

A Thomson Ring (in balance atraction-repsulsion) get in the secondary coil a current 90º unphased respect to the primary current. Later we can take this signal into a diode bridge to rectify it and feed one electromagnet. We could get a signal identical to the last signal which is drawn in the picture from my previous post.




Link to previous picture

We may get a transformer where the distance between coils could be adjustable in order to regulate the phase shift.


Welding machine: "The intensity control could be done by displacing the coil: It consists on moving away the primary and the secondary"

More links:
Paper about the Thomson Ring

Any comments? Please tell me if you think that this method could work properly. Thanks

Regards