Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[Elcheapo]

To all:

just done some extensive testing and found out that the N-S way is only transformer link coupling, so we need to use N-N or S-S to get this thing to work.
WOW! Ufo got something right for a change.

I now know how this thing is supposed to work, but I don't want to step on Ufo's toes, so I'm outta here.

[Dwane]

Hello Dwane,

You don't need to go to a lot of trouble to make a part G. Look at this post I made a while back.

http://www.energeticforum.com/312259-post2721.html

You just need to make sure you use a decent motor and not the simple cheap little motor I used as a test of the idea. You also want to make sure you have brushes that cover more than one commutator segment at a time to eliminate sparking and arcing at the brushes. You might need to change the brushes and brush holders to a wider set of brushes. That should be much easier than making the part G from scratch.

Carroll

Hi Citfta,
I remember reading this reply during my travel through this thread. Just over half way at the moment. Very clever approach. Using one's initiative!! It is though, a stepper? From the information so far supplied on the thread, I think the G is better designed as a continuous gradient of supply. At the moment, I do not see a difficulty with building a wound rotor. The solution you offer, I do not see as permanent. Only as a means to prove the operation of the Figuera device.

So far, there has been an overwhelming amount of information on this generator. All resolving to a more simpler build, as the mechanics of the generator unfold. The "G" offers the opportunity for elegance! although, where the thread is now, it would seem that the primary and secondary coils are up for a challenge.

I need to think carefully about the choice of the two builds.

Regards

Dwane

[Dwane]

Hi Guys,
Have spent the past couple of days rationalising the Figuera process. I have been looking for a marathonman posting where he suggests four coils on the "G". Still looking.

Anyway, as has been suggested, as the best option for the Figuera device, is the alternating waveform as the rotor progresses through a north and north magnetising cycle. The problem for me with that, is this output appears to be an inference of a modified dc output. Also, I am conflicted with the notion that Clemente actually produced an AC output, or as is suggested, produced a series of voltage peaks that looks like AC. If I work on the assumption that he did wish to produce a pure sign wave, then the winding on the "G" would have to accommodate this output. Not such an easy exercise to replicate a spinning rotor through a magnetic field with alternate magnetic poles.

However, if the "G" is wound with 4 coils, two of which are wound resistively in the opposite direction, then the AC replication becomes a possibility. First part of the cycle is 1+16;2+15;......;8+9. Which probably should be 1+15;2+14;.......;8+8 as a swap over point. Then swapping the for the next half cycle, polarities 15+1;14+2:......8+8. Back to the beginning. This should satisfy what I feel is what Clemente was up to. To produce this, winding would an alternating wind every 90degrees. Replicating a true sign wave. Whether or not he could see that is debatable. Mathematically though, he would have understood this.

Just my issues with what I am going to build.

Regards

Dwane

[seaad]

https://overunity.com/12794/re-inven...4500/#lastPost

http://forum.hyiq.org/thread/clemente-figuera/

Regards A

[Dwane]

Hi Seaad,
Thanks for the links. I did not realise that there was so much going on with Clemente! Marathonman certainly has been very involved over a long time with developing the figuera generator. Maybe I am overthinking this! In hindsight, perhaps the original generator only produced a DC pulsed output. After all, he wasn't running vacuum cleaners, dishwashers or any one of the many devices we take for granted. He was just lighting his home. I am also mindful that the output has to resemble AC for the symmetry of operation. One of the reasons for my digression into a true sine wave output. The "G", is then, a variable choke.

Regards

Dwane

[seaad]

Hi Dwane look at my thoughts in this post:Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera
http://www.energeticforum.com/307838-post2691.html

Quote A comes from Clemente Figuera himself while he was alive 1908. More trustworthy I think.
Quote B and C comes from his partner Buforn later. Maybe not so trustworthy.
Did Buffon understand all the secrets in the Figuera concept or added he some "bogus" statements to the later patents?

Quote B is a tricky one. If true?? Only one way transmission: Primary to Secondary!

I have achieved more or less of this one way transmission with beginning from my post, see below, to the end of that thread. Here the thing is to prove if a common normal transformer power factor math can be applied to my transformer-contraptions giving a COP of about 2 ?

http://www.energeticforum.com/306841-post622.html
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-heins-21.html

Regards Arne

[boguslaw]

Why Tesla had so much patents on the same topic and some patents of seemingly unimportant devices ? Why Figuera had few patents on related topics ? Some think it is because of different devices .... We cannot understand Tesla and Figuera without analyse all patents to find the principles.
Especially Figuera is telling us how to learn, you cannot jump to the final class,no if you do not understand what he said first, what is the base

[Dwane]

Hi Seaad,
I think I might have fallen into the trap of thinking this unit of Figuera's is going to produce a sine wave output. I have read the link on Hyiq.org. Lots of info there too. At a rudimentary level, I noticed the comment on radiant energy. Now this is not sine wave output. As per Don Smith it can lead to it. So, the "G" choke might not be providing a continuous flow to the primaries. The delivery is pulse driven, so stepping the drive to the primaries might be mandatory. Does not pay to think you have the answers with radiant solutions!

Regards

Dwane

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Seaad,
I think I might have fallen into the trap of thinking this unit of Figuera's is going to produce a sine wave output. I have read the link on Hyiq.org. Lots of info there too. At a rudimentary level, I noticed the comment on radiant energy. Now this is not sine wave output. As per Don Smith it can lead to it. So, the "G" choke might not be providing a continuous flow to the primaries. The delivery is pulse driven, so stepping the drive to the primaries might be mandatory. Does not pay to think you have the answers with radiant solutions!

Regards

Dwane

Dwane,

I have built the Figuera device in MANY SHAPES AND DIFFERENT TYPE OF CONTROLLERS, it DOES OUTPUT AN AC SINEWAVE!
To the point I have run AC DRILLS, AC SAW, AC INDUCTION FANS ...etc, etc

It DOES NOT render "a perfectly SMOOTH LOOKING SINEWAVE" as we get off the wall, because it is purely dependent upon the INDUCING SIGNAL GENERATING IT!!!

It is NOT a "typical DC pulsed INDUCING SIGNAL"...BUT a signal which NEVER GOES ZERO OR NEGATIVE!!

When we use NN or SS We get AC at Output.
When we use NS SN We get a Pulsed-Square DC Signal Output.
In Figuera the FIELD FORMED BY THE TWO PRIMARIES, MUST NEVER LOOSE COMPACTNESS/STRENGTH, but just DISPLACE from one end to the other of INDUCED SECONDARY LONGITUDINAL AXIS.

You are a perfect example WHY NO ONE would never get anywhere, on anything you attempt to build...CONJECTURES PLUS WRONG REASONING BEFORE DOING REAL EXPERIMENTAL WORK BASED ON OEM PATENT.


This is the MAIN REASON I STOPPED POSTING RESULTS HERE.

NO SERIOUS BUILDERS HERE AT ALL!!!



Ufopolitics

[Dwane]

Hello UFO,
Unfortunately, some of us are bound with decision making beyond our control. I have spent lots of time on other projects, most notable JB's free energy generator and work trying to understand Don Smith. There are those out there who are able to get straight into something, perhaps like yourself, and others who sit on the sidelines cheering on, and a few like myself who try and understand what it is they are trying to replicate, and still get it wrong. Also, for some of us, the components and tools used in some of the experiments shown are not readily available. We have to spend a lot of time waiting for required items to arrive. Then when they do, the procedure has moved on and the items are not required.

I hope you can see the problem here? With the JB devise, I was able to use a local associate with a lathe to turn up some items. Other electronic components and "old" universal motors are just not immediatately available for myself. As a consequence, for myself, and I would presume others, that particular set-up proposed by Citfta is unfortunately a bit of a no go. To proceed, for me personally, i have to then attempt to understand how the process is working. I feel I am getting there. Further, just when I personally think I understand the system, I read of alternate solutions. A book could be written on the vagaries of this "simple" device.

I have every intention of building a Figuera device. I feel that it offers a better solution for general distribution than a Don Smith device. I also feel, that when a solid understanding of this device is shown to people such as myself, then the "revolution" might progress up the scale. As frustrating as it might be for yourself and some of the other notable contributors, it is just as frustrating for others on the reverse side of the issue. Non the least trying to build a device with limited resource to hand immediately.

I hope I have not offended you with my reply. Sometimes we cannot see the wood for the trees. We swathe through the forest cutting a pathway only to find we have arrived back where we started. Having not seen a tree!! There are others who unfortunately have to struggle to commit their intellect to the task at hand. Then........, it goes on.

At the end of the day, I truly hope to have a working device, that will be readily available for all and sundry who wish to use or make it!

i wish you well and thank you for all your assistance to date.

Regards

Dwane

[citfta]

Well, I am kind of confused. I was sure a saw a post from Dwane where he asked me to show how I had my part G (the modified motor) connected to the primary coils. Now I don't see that post. There have been some strange things going on lately on some of the forums with posts disappearing and other strange things.

Well anyway since I have gone to the trouble to make a picture of how it all does together I might as well post it.

In the picture you see a red wire coming from my power supply going to the slip ring. This is the input power to part G. From the slip ring a wire goes to the other end of the motor as I explained in an earlier post. There it connects to one of the commutator tabs so that means it is now connected to all the armature winding.

As the armature is turned by the other motor you see coupled to my part G, the wire gets closer to one brush and farther away from the other until it reaches the one and then moves away from that one towards the other and so forth over and over. What this actually does is keep adding and subtracting turns of the armature coil to each end of your primary coils.

From one brush holder you see a red wire going to one primary coil and a black wire from the other brush holder going to the other primary coil. The returns of both coils are tied together and the black wire coming from the power supply is connected to them. I do not show any connections to the secondary in order to create less clutter and confusion in the picture. I hope this is all clear.

Carroll

[bistander]

Disappearing post

Hi citfta,

I also noticed that. He must have deleted it. Anyway your post is helpful to those trying to understand this novel approach to part G. Well done.

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Citfta,

Yes, Dwane asked previously for help on your part g..he is the only one who could have deleted it.

Now, bombarding you with questions...how much voltage and amperage that universal motor would take?

and did you made the two incandescent bulbs test?

any good results so far?...I see you have it mounted more secure plus running it with an MY Motor...

Looks good now though...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Idea

Hi again citfta,

While thinking about your modified armature, I was thinking about an easier way to do the slip ring. Often most easy is to eliminate it. All, I think, universal motors are isolated meaning non-grounded. Some may even be double insulated. So, why not replace the brush, slip ring and connection to comm segment with the steel motor structure, or ground?

Run the power supply to the motor steel case. Either thru the bearings or a brass wiper to the shaft. Then ground one comm segment to the rotor steel or shaft. Circuit made.

Might be a bit less efficient and shorter lived than a proper copper ring and carbon brush, but likely a lot easier to get running.

Regards,

bi

[citfta]

Hi UFO,

I have not really had time to do any more with this. I don't know any more about the motor except it is a surplus motor I got from an online place. I do know it is supposed to be a vacuum cleaner motor that would have run on 110 volts AC. I have not done the two incandescent bulb test. That would be a good way to prove this really works. I have connected the output coil to a 10 ohm 10 watt resistor. Some scope traces and a meter set for AC volts has shown the output is a sine wave with very low voltage. But the low voltage is because I have only just grabbed some coils and stuck them together. I have done nothing to try and optimize them for the operation of the Figuera Device.

During that test I was supplying 12 volts DC at about 1 amp to the slip ring of the motor. At that voltage and amperage I got about 2 volts out across the 10 ohm resistor.

Take care,
Carroll