anything that works?

[velacreations]

Oh Now that is classy, very graceful and eloquent.

I don't think your attempted bully tactics will work on Vela.

None the less I have attempted to reported the post to the administrators
but keep getting a "no data received" message, if it is allowed with no
repercussions on you then it is open slather, we can all just call each other
names all day, but maybe that is what you want is it ? Really name calling is
for children. Why try to insult people directly. Direct insults ought to be not
tolerated, unintended and indirect insult cannot be avoided at times but direct
insults can be avoided by mature adults. Providing they are not affected by
alcohol or drugs that is.

What is your excuse if you think you have one Duncan ?
What is it that you think gives you the right to insult people in that way ?

I'm curious. But I'm also disgusted. It's appalling behavior in my opinion and
goes directly against the terms and conditions of membership to this site if I
understand it. And you are a serial offender to boot.

I honestly don't understand your thinking when you willingly engage in battles of Witt without any ammunition.

..

Don't worry about it, Farmhand. For some reason, people feel threatened when others ask for verification and evidence to back claims. That's just the way it is.

Anyway, let's get back on topic.

I have been looking in depth at the 2 stage oscillator, and while interesting, I am having a hard time finding accurate measurements of the COP >1 claim. There are a few, made by the inventor and friends, but there are several replications of this device on youtube, etc, and I can't find a replication with corresponding data.

Does anyone have links to replications that verify the COP >1 claim?

I have seen several that debate this claim, and they have interesting points, but no data, either.

So, as it stands right no, no claim, either way, is verified. I do think it is a system that could easily fool someone, so accurate measurement is the key.

It seems that with so many replications, if the COP >1 claim was legit, there would be ample amount of evidence to support it.

[RAMSET]

VC is Disingenuous IMO

Farmhand You get and earn respect
This Man has the scent of a fraud to his true purpose here!
He reeks of Agenda.........

VC gives me the creeps [am I aloud to write that here?]
but thats just me and my opinion after watching him go all over the forum acting friendly here and saying rude ignorant statements over there,ALWAYS coming back to this condescending rudeness like he posted above.
IMO VC's story here is like the Little Red Hen on acid.........

Thx
Chet
PS
Please let me know if I broke any rules I'm not to good with understanding that part sometimes [being serious here]

[tecknomancer]

I disagree. Where are people using these technologies to power their homes? The easy answer is that they aren't.

WOW ok I'm done you just cant fix stupid no matter what anyone says you just don't get it I should have never posted in your thread good luck in your BOX (easy answer)

It wont happen again

[velacreations]

WOW ok I'm done you just cant fix stupid no matter what anyone says you just don't get it I should have never posted in your thread good luck in your BOX (easy answer)

It wont happen again

I'm sorry you feel that way, that comment wasn't meant as an insult to you, more of a comment on that a lot of those people ARE screaming look at me, look at me, but they get real skiddish (or offended) when someone asks for evidence.

[velacreations]

Farmhand You get and earn respect
This Man has the scent of a fraud to his true purpose here!
He reeks of Agenda.........

VC gives me the creeps [am I aloud to write that here?]
but thats just me and my opinion after watching him go all over the forum acting friendly here and saying rude ignorant statements over there,ALWAYS coming back to this condescending rudeness like he posted above.
IMO VC's story here is like the Little Red Hen on acid.........

Thx
Chet
PS
Please let me know if I broke any rules I'm not to good with understanding that part sometimes [being serious here]

I don't think you've broken any rules, but I think you are mistaken.

Isn't it funny that anytime a thread like this pops up, it takes us until page 2, and then people are accusing the OP of an Agenda or being a shill or something like that.

Because of what? asking questions. asking for measurements, for evidence, for verification. What is it about good science that makes people here so defensive?

I've been on a total of 3 threads on this forum (including this one) in the past few days. If I've been rude on the other 2 threads, I'd appreciate you showing me how I was rude. I think I've been extremely accommodating, despite a surprising lack of data to back up some very big claims.

I asked a very simple question to start this thread, and so far, the vast majority of replies have been to question the reasons for me asking that question!

"Stop asking questions, and get back in line!"

So, listen, here's the deal. If you don't have a device that works that you have evidence to support the claims, no need to post here. I'm sure there are plenty of other threads that need your attention.

If you do have something, feel free to give us the details.

[Aaron]

first demonstrate your qualifications

Show me a measurement of a usable quantity

Can we make a static electricity motor? Sure. Can we make it perform useful work? that is the real question.

So we hear of how many ways we can all get loads of free energy, except "loads" means microwatts, and to get it means $$$.

You're being completely disingenuous - and keep moving the goal posts.

First of all, whether something works that is over 1.0 COP is one thing and then having it be a "usable" quantity is another. That is NOT asking the same question - so first FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW - and when someone answers it - DO NOT keep adding different qualifications. That method of logic is for goofballs at a James Randi forum, please don't pull that here.

First of all, the Veljko oscillator PUMPS WATER. Stop pretending you didn't hear that and accept it for what it is. Small input - about 5 TIMES AMPLIFICATION in energy output - and PUMPING WATER IS usable energy.

This is your response about Veljko for example:

"Replicated several times by others
Produces usable quantity of output
Has been measured and verified of output by independent sources

And preferably post ones that you have personally replicated and measured output."

First of all, please learn to use GOOGLE. Why everyone else should do your work for you makes no sense and is a waste of time. You have been given the lead, go search it on your own and see the hundreds of replications around the world.

Measured and verified by independent sources? Are you kidding me? A 9th grader can perform the work calculations based on elementary school math and junior high or high school equations.

If you are really asking these questions - you're not even qualified to know what you see what you see it. You're essentially asking to be brought from ground floor to where everyone else is at. Is that everyone else's job or is that your own?

"It consists of a regular extension cord. Take the male end, go to your neighbor's house and plug it into a wall socket. Take the female end, and plug in any appliance (the bigger, the better). Now, plugging the cord into the socket takes 20 watts, maybe, of work on your part, but you can literally run hundreds of kWh through your appliances this way. So, the COP approaches infinity, and this device gives us free energy at low cost and high usable output."

By that comment, I think you're in the wrong place - this is more suited for you: James Randi Educational Foundation

Veljko dubious? Like I said above, it is simple to measure. Actually, it is fairly common sense. If you think you are even qualified to question it, then you should be qualified to build it YOURSELF and measure it.

There is nothing wrong with asking questions - but moving the goalpost shows the inconsistency and fraudulent nature of what you claim you are trying to find in this thread.

If someone isn't running their house on free energy but can demonstrate over 1.0 COP on small scale, it is 100% IRRELEVANT to the point of the original question of whether something really works that is over 1.0 COP.

----------------------

Instead of you asking questions without even proving you're qualified to understand the answers, why don't we ask you something - post an example of one single non-equilibrium thermodynamic system with sample #'s of input and output from us or the environment and show us the difference between efficiency and COP. If you can do that, then we know you actually know the distinctions well enough - and that it isn't a waste of time to point you in the right direction.

If you can't do that, then I'm sure you can see why it would be a total waste of time to share anything with you.

I see you passed over the refrigerator example and went to something else - hmmm, let's see if you can do the above.

[velacreations]

velacreations,
I know you have been reading through the 3BGS thread and aren't sure yet whether or not we are full of BS. You find the lack of data and measurement to be a red flag. For that I don't blame you.

I don't think you are full of BS. I think you might be mistaken about what is happening (and I sure don't know), but I don't think you are lying or BSing anyone. That's why we have to fall back to measurement, to make sure our observations and assumptions are correct.

The thing about this setup is that most folks have only gotten it to run for a few minutes oh a couple hours where it is working correctly. A couple people have gotten it to run for a couple days and then had it quit. When you can run loads off battery three and the motor for that amount of time and your primaries end up at a higher voltage than you started, you can't help but get excited. Now I understand what you have said about a battery gaining in voltage but losing in capacity, and so I understand your skepticism. It's a healthy thing.

yeah, it definitely seems to be elusive, from what I am reading in the thread. I agree, I would be excited, too, the results you have seen are impressive, but being hard to repeatedly replicate it makes it difficult to determine what is going on.

But if you are truly a scientist, this is such an EASY, inexpensive project to build that I can't see why ANYONE would not take the time to give it a shot, given the fact that so many different people, some with backgrounds in electronics and engineering, have seen what they believe to be positive results even if those results do not live up to your standards of measurement.

I am definitely going to give it a shot. I have a collection of bad batteries, hopefully I can find one that is suitable. I also hope to take measurements, as many as possible, and start building some data to really examine this thing.

and I want to save, Dave, that I appreciate you coming over and saying that. There are definitely some people over in your thread that have observed the effect multiple times (replication) and have done basic measurements (evidence), so to me, that adds considerable credibility to the project. We needs more projects like that.

[velacreations]

You're being completely disingenuous - and keep moving the goal posts.

First of all, whether something works that is over 1.0 COP is one thing and then having it be a "usable" quantity is another. That is NOT asking the same question - so first FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW - and when someone answers it - DO NOT keep adding different qualifications.

Aaron, you told me that my goal posts were not appropriate. You set the definition for "free energy" for the thread, and I thank you for that. I disagree with your definition, but at least you stated it.

I asked if we had anything that worked. To me, work means able to perform actual work, as in usable energy. Is clarification moving the goal posts? I guess so.

First of all, the Veljko oscillator PUMPS WATER. Stop pretending you didn't hear that and accept it for what it is. Small input - about 5 TIMES AMPLIFICATION in energy output - and PUMPING WATER IS usable energy.

well, on his site, he gives many uses, including electricity (which is mentioned in several forums discussing the topic. They also describe a press, and several other applications.

I agree that pumping water is useable energy. Is pumping water COP >5? I haven't seen evidence to support that claim.

First of all, please learn to use GOOGLE.

I have been using google, and as of yet, I am unable to find evidence to support the COP >5 claim, so I asked you, who gave me the lead, to help me out, point me in the right direction. I had assumed that it was something that you had replicated, so that's why I asked.

Measured and verified by independent sources? Are you kidding me? A 9th grader can perform the work calculations based on elementary school math and junior high or high school equations.

Maybe we should get those 9th graders to take some measurements while it is running, cause that's what seems to be lacking, not the calculations of hwo it supposedly works.

By that comment, I think you're in the wrong place - this is more suited for you: James Randi Educational Foundation

hey, you set that definition, not me. Don't blame me that your definition looks ridiculous in another perspective. This was an example to show that that definition of "free energy" is pretty weak, we need a better one.

Veljko dubious? Like I said above, it is simple to measure. Actually, it is fairly common sense. If you think you are even qualified to question it, then you should be qualified to build it YOURSELF and measure it.

why should I? It has been replicated hundreds of times all around the world, right? none of those hundreds have thought to measure anything? really?

If someone isn't running their house on free energy but can demonstrate over 1.0 COP on small scale, it is 100% IRRELEVANT to the point of the original question of whether something really works that is over 1.0 COP.

I agree. But, that also brings up the point is demonstrating COP >1 on a small scale useful. If you look at the majority of the threads on this forum that involve free energy or COP>1 devices, they are not claiming small scale achievements. They are claiming LARGE outputs, some even in the kW range.

So sure, we can find an example of COP>1 in the milliwatt scale, but is that what is being claimed? And then, how is that useful to us?

Instead of you asking questions without even proving you're qualified to understand the answers, why don't we ask you something - post an example of one single non-equilibrium thermodynamic system with sample #'s of input and output from us or the environment and show us the difference between efficiency and COP. If you can do that, then we know you actually know the distinctions well enough - and that it isn't a waste of time to point you in the right direction.

Interesting. In other words, it ISN'T ok to ask questions around here. It's only ok if you deem me qualified to understand you (basically, as long as I agree with how you view things)? I can see a pattern forming here, that disagreement is discouraged.

So, now you attack my credibility? I tell you what, you answer my question with the specifics I listed earlier, and I'll answer yours with the specifics you requested.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Farmhand You get and earn respect
This Man has the scent of a fraud to his true purpose here!
He reeks of Agenda.........

VC gives me the creeps [am I aloud to write that here?]
but thats just me and my opinion after watching him go all over the forum acting friendly here and saying rude ignorant statements over there,ALWAYS coming back to this condescending rudeness like he posted above.
IMO VC's story here is like the Little Red Hen on acid.........

Thx
Chet
PS
Please let me know if I broke any rules I'm not to good with understanding that part sometimes [being serious here]

Right on the button there, I would say a plant of some sort unless it can be proved otherwise. Seems he is causing distraction in most threads, is it really needed VC? or do you have an ego for causing trouble, because where ever you go there are problems, even on the threads you start!!!!

I did not answer to you on another thread so as NOT TO CAUSE PROBLEMS ON THAT THREAD, so don't think you gained points, you didn't, you move the goal posts to try and make out you are right, YOU ARE NOT if apples are apples and oranges are oranges. I explained there and I will not explain again the difference in battery drain and battery charge in relation to speed.

I'm gone, have better things to do

Mike

[velacreations]

interesting, more attacks on my credibility and even more avoidance to the issue and questions at hand.

typical...

[velacreations]

I did not answer to you on another thread so as NOT TO CAUSE PROBLEMS ON THAT THREAD, so don't think you gained points, you didn't, you move the goal posts to try and make out you are right, YOU ARE NOT if apples are apples and oranges are oranges. I explained there and I will not explain again the difference in battery drain and battery charge in relation to speed.

Mike, you made a false statement, you didn't mention any goal posts. I corrected you in interest of the thread. That's it, don't take it personally.

Here was your comment:

IF there is a battery that will take in charge at an equal or faster rate than the discharge, then it would go on for ever but I don't think there exists such a beast, unless a supper cap bank would exhibit such properties "cost at the moment could be a problem".

And clearly there are batteries that can be charged at a faster rate than discharged (I do it everyday, and in fact, I am doing it right now as I type this). The key part of setup is the size of the bank, the rate of charge and the rate of discharge, as I clearly showed.

[Duncan]

repent!

None the less I have attempted to reported the post to the administrators
but keep getting a "no data received" message, if it is allowed with no
repercussions on you then it is open slather,

Twit!
@ Farmhand as you well know I regard you as one of the oppositions most effective “firemen” the fact that you have rushed to Velcro’s defence has done nothing to alter that opinion I have a deal of Respect for Australia and Australians I worked for Baker Perkins and with the guys @ Melbourn for quite a while .. A very enjoyable period even for a Whinging POM
Whinging Pom in Australia - YouTube
There was quite a lot of other things I appreciated about Australia Including the peoples no nonsense approach .. So when you got the needle with my direct assessment of you I considered what you had to say, I then immediately apologised on open forum. That In no way alters my opinion of what you are and what you do. Or who may be paying you to do it, however that is of course just "my opinion" .
As for reporting me on behalf of others … rather like rushing to the school dinner lady Miss Miss I don’t think that’s in order do you?
I don’t like your overtones ... that must be three times now you have intended reporting me to the authorities, well I suspect they opted to be clumsy with the email “In box” Clumsy as demonstrated by this very special Christmas Australian Newspaper cutting....

PERTH - An SAS trooper collecting toys for children was stabbed when he helped stop a suspected shoplifter in east Perth. The ‘Toys-R-Us' Store Manager told 'The West Australian' that a *man was seen on surveillance cameras last Friday putting a laptop under his jacket at the store.

When confronted, the man became irate, knocked down an employee, pulled a knife and ran toward the door. Outside were four SAS Troopers collecting toys for the "Toys For Tots" program. Smith said the Troopers stopped the man, but he stabbed one of them in the back. Fortunately the cut did not appear to be severe.

The suspect however was transported by ambulance to the Royal Perth Hospital with two broken arms, a broken leg, possible broken ribs, multiple contusions, and assorted lacerations including a broken nose and jaw ... *Injuries he apparently sustained when he tripped whilst trying to run after the stabbing. *One of the Troopers said, "He was a clumsy bastard

So given our amount of time is pressured particularly at this time of year do you really think the dinner lady “Miss miss” stuff is really called for? I have the scent of this and its better than a smelly troll, Change sides Farmhand you cannot and will not be able to to live a lie very much longer I suggest you swim to shore before you get blown out of the water! Your support of Velcro speaks volumes to me .. perhaps others too?

[velacreations]

I don’t know about anybody else but I personally wont be posting any more on this thread

it seems that this was another empty threat...

[velacreations]

I'm reposting this, because the last several posts have been completely off topic.

Please post links to devices that meet the following criteria:
- Replicated several times by others
- Produces usable quantity of output
- Has been measured and verified of output by independent sources

And preferably post ones that you have personally replicated and measured output.

If you don't have anything that meets that criteria, no need to post.

[velacreations]

but the way, here's an example of site with numerous replications, measurements, recorded data, and all of the things required by good science:

The JLN Labs home page

Please note that several experiments on this site indicate devices that have interesting results, requiring further experimentation. If you are looking for something that works, this would be a good place to start.