coils transfer current in elecrolysis without touching?

[jeremyg]

first off, hello to all. im new to home experimenting, and to these forums. if i slip, please feel free to prop me up

i started off with some browns gas production as a science experiment for my nieces, and got curious about some things. ive been reading / watching vids about magnetics and came across a magntic vortex explanation that showed two spinning currents across from each other created what was refered to as 'artifacts', which looked nearly equal in strength, only reversed.

i'd been spinning up aluminum coils to try different configurations, so i dropped 4 in a jar in what i figured was an appropriate orientation and powered up two opposite each other. lo and behold, the two neutral coils, with nothing hooked up, began producing gas instantly.

id like to say i understand what happened, but 50 scribbled drawings with arrows and different colored crayon and i feel more confused than when i started! i understand that it wouldnt be too hard to try and map out the current lines, which i am curious about, but more: why would the current care about those coils at all?

i love all the learning. cheers, and thanks for helping this humble cat.

electric field in electrolysis - YouTube

[StweenyA]

Hey, welcome to the forum!

Interesting setup you got there... Please could you tell us how many volts & amps you are using?

Or, what power supply are you using?

[jeremyg]

its a very amateur setup, started as something for the family to do and took off quick. the setup is listed in the linked video description as well.

its aluminum chain link ties wound into coils, distilled water and regular baking soda. the leads going to the coils are regular copper wire and some cheap connectors (i cant even say what theyre made of but they corrode quick). leads go straight to a 12v car battery.

[jeremyg]

i tried aligning single loops opposite each other, with 2 neutral loops forming a square (12:00 N, 3:00 - , 6:00 N, 9:00 + ). i got the same result as with coils. the two neutral loops again started reacting, but seeming split bewtween acting as anode and cathode, and in opposite from the original charged coils (hopefully i can attach a quick sketch to clear that up).

i would like to understand how field lines are making the center coils react, if that is really whats happening. if so, is there any way to seperate the coils into different solutions and get similar results?

does the presence of electrolysis at these neutral coils mean that there is drawable current going through them? if so, is there a way to arrange them to maximize the effect? ( im going to try 6 coil configs this afternoon for fun)

[level]

i tried aligning single loops opposite each other, with 2 neutral loops forming a square (12:00 N, 3:00 - , 6:00 N, 9:00 + ). i got the same result as with coils. the two neutral loops again started reacting, but seeming split bewtween acting as anode and cathode, and in opposite from the original charged coils (hopefully i can attach a quick sketch to clear that up).

i would like to understand how field lines are making the center coils react, if that is really whats happening. if so, is there any way to seperate the coils into different solutions and get similar results?

does the presence of electrolysis at these neutral coils mean that there is drawable current going through them? if so, is there a way to arrange them to maximize the effect? ( im going to try 6 coil configs this afternoon for fun)

I am not sure what is happening, but I would guess that what you are seeing is not related to using coils or loops and magnetic induction, but is actually an effect of charge distribution between the connected electrodes and the neutral electrodes. I would guess that you would get the same effect if you use four big steel bolts or other chunks of metal to act as the electrodes. If you use say four big steel bolts or something similar with the bolts standing upright, and fill the water solution such that the tops of the bolts are sticking out of the water a bit so you can measure them with a voltmeter, I would guess that the voltage on the 'neutral' bolts will sit somewhere around six volts with respect to the negative battery wire, if they are situated in the middle between the negative and positive bolts.

[jeremyg]

unfortunately, i have no accurate testing equipment yet. i did try straightening out the wires im using and dropped them straight down in a smaller container, and got no reaction. ill try using larger bolts also. thanks!

[Berg]

Coils Inside Electrolysis Cell

i'd been spinning up aluminum coils to try different configurations, so i dropped 4 in a jar in what i figured was an appropriate orientation and powered up two opposite each other. lo and behold, the two neutral coils, with nothing hooked up, began producing gas instantly.

Welcome to EF.

Have you tried using insulated coils? (as the powering or exciter coils)

Cheers

[jeremyg]

thank you. its nice to get some replies instead of the one-way conversations AT my wife, haha.

ill have to look up what those coils are then yes, i probably will try them. ive learned more about magnetic fields and current over the past 3 days than i did my whole life!

i did try the solid bolts, and got no reaction. i shot this short terrible video to show what i believe to be spinning around the loop, but again, im not even sure what im seeing. if it is spinning, that may mean there is some spintronics force at work? im throwing around terms i know very little about i realize, but maybe this untrained mind will stumble onto something

motion in electrolysis - YouTube

[jeremyg]

well, i tried insulating the exciter coils and got a whole lot of nothing going on. instead of banging my head against a wall i built a mini cutting torch that runs off a 9v, haha. it should produce a flame if i can get the flashback arrestor to work (ball of cigarette filter!).

mini browns gas maker - YouTube

still havent tried any 6 coil layouts, curiosity will probably get me tonight.

[level]

i did try the solid bolts, and got no reaction.

Hi jeremyg. Hmm, if you had two of the bolts connected to the 12V battery, one to -ve and one to +ve terminals, you should have at least had electrolysis going on from these two electrodes, no? When you say you had no reaction, do you mean you had no visible electrolysis happening around the neutral bolts, or no electrolysis at all? It may be that there needs to be a certain minimum of mass to the neutral electrodes before they start to produce noticeable results. How thick were the bolts that you were using?

[jeremyg]

hey
the bolts were probably about 1/2 inch, all uniform size. i got electrolysis at the bolts as normal, but no reaction on the center bolts (at least not noticable). im going to start shopping around for some good monitoring equipment, methinks. as of now, ive got an old speaker to tell me if current is present!

[level]

hey
the bolts were probably about 1/2 inch, all uniform size. i got electrolysis at the bolts as normal, but no reaction on the center bolts (at least not noticable). im going to start shopping around for some good monitoring equipment, methinks. as of now, ive got an old speaker to tell me if current is present!

I see. It is interesting that the neutral coils and loops showed electrolysis but the bolts didn't. I am still inclined to think it is not at all related to magnetic induction, but I would have thought the neutral bolts would have behaved in a similar way. If you are using batteries, just a very basic multimeter for measuring DC volts, milliamps, and ohms resistance should do you.

[jeremyg]

i think i understand, and it took a pot of carrots to do it. carrots.

electrons shoot along the wire and in turn, ions shoot through the solution, leaving cathodes and entering anodes. the neutral coils just caught and released them. i guess my real question was when does it turn back into electrons, and could it be used to parallel a circuit in some weird way.

cheers and thanks. ill leave you with the riddle breaker

[Berg]

Internal Insulated Coils and Wires

i tried insulating the exciter coils and got a whole lot of nothing going on.

Thanks. Very interesting idea.

But this is what I had in mind:

Berg HHO Gas Generator

The power to the plates is supplied via an internal coil. The internal coil is powered by an outer coil.

Cheers

[jeremyg]

interesting. i glanced through a patent online about some kind of induction gas production, where one coil just wrapped around the outside of the container, and didnt actually come into contact with the solution. is your top coil somewhere along those lines? (love the drawing by the way.....2013 right?
all i tried was leaving the rubber coating on the aluminum ties and dipping the exposed ends in candle wax, then arranging them the exact same.

im wondering if i can get the thickness of my solution to be thin enough, if i could actually trace a line visually that the current would flow through....it might only be good as some kind of art piece, but still fun. im winding coils tonight (if i can ever decide on a configuration-so much to learn all at once), but ill be going back to water tomorrow to try some stuff. good times!