Gravity As Energy Source: Land Ideas

[Pal]

Falling or downward moving weights present a force of gravity which can

be exploited in various ways. For example, a descending elevator, if it is heavier than its counterweight, has the potential to produce energy. But how to build an elevator which is always heavier than its counterweight? There are hundreds of mines around the world; many of them have huge piles of tailings near the mines on the surface. It is possible to dispose of the (often toxic) tailings by sending them back to the mine below load by load. A double elevator each acting as the other’s counterweight could be installed, one side would send the mined ore up to the surface while the other elevator filled up with the tailings descends. The tailings load would always be heavier than the ore load. The main problem would be dispersing the tailings into empty shafts and corridors with machinery that consumes less electric power than generated by the descending force of the tailings. If this problem could be resolved then another energy source would be available using the see-saw concept.

Open pit mines are huge and usually located below ground level and rows of trucks must ferry the ore up to the surface. However some minerals are found high on top of mountains and trucks have to bring the ore down. In Latin America where most of such mines are located one company uses conveyor belts to carry the ore down and at the same time generate electricity.

Most mountains are too rugged and steep, but it would be possible to erect an open air elevator which would look like a steel building under construction fastened to the mountain side. This elevator would be equipped with counterweights and a wide booth. Trucks and/or slanting conveyor belts would carry the ore to the elevator and dump it into the booth (or bucket), the counterweights move up as the elevator slides down. The bottom of the elevator would automatically open and pour the ore into another similar elevator which would be below the first one. Like steps several elevators could be built and the ore cascaded down until it reached the floor of the valley. The same load could be utilized several times in each elevator to generate power.

Any location where precious minerals and or building materials needed to be transported to lower elevations could be possible sites for such elevators. Almost entire mountains could be dismantled using the step by step elevators to fill valleys, and level lower elevations. Mountains are plentiful but hopefully the energy crisis will not become so critical that it would be necessary to whittle down mountains. Besides the construction, rock slides, and snow and ice would pose difficult engineering problems.

The purpose of these very unusual suggestions is to point out that gravity could be utilized in locations where large quantities of rock or earth needed to be moved to lower elevations such as at dam or mountain road construction sites, by a series of outdoor temporary, portable and easy to reassemble elevators linked to each other by short slanting and sliding ducts or conveyor belts.

[Ein~+ein]

While on the one hand, our armchair ideas appear far closer to tapping actual unused 'free energy' sources than all the Meyer, Tesla, Bedini, and Don Smith devotees' with their replication attempts ... such ideas even if successfully implemented, are not going to amount to much in the grander scheme of things, that is, if reducing carbon emissions is your prime concern. To save the planet, we need gigawatts of green power, and NOW!!!

However, for personal gain, it's worth pursuing such modest efficiency increases because:
a) long-term cost savings will motivate the switch;
b) switching stimulates modest economic growth;
c) gov'ts will support such environmental initiatives.

As an example, look at plans to once again (in my lifetime) replace N.A's streetlamps. Here's another opportunity: gym treadmills and weight machines, if re-engineered (from using to generating electricity), could turn a health club green while significantly reducing or even eliminating their energy costs.

But if you're looking for untapped sources of energy, why not look at what we OVERPRODUCE, particularly at night when demand drops? With your interest in gravity, you may want to look at ways, not of producing, but of storing off-peak electricity using. I think I saw something to this effect in National Geographic a few years back. Maybe you can find it online.

It was storage of this nighttime excess capacity that compelled me to follow the Stan Meyer (water 'fuel cell') replication thread. I was trying to get a sense of whether Jon Abel or others on that thread including this website's co-founder and moderator had increased the efficiency of electrolysis, but surprisingly, no one's making any FE claims. Currently the energy input (of electrolysis) is greater than the energy output (from the resulting hydroxy) suggesting there may be more efficient and safer methods of storing excess capacity, although Meyers claimed to run his car entirely from water. Conspiracy theorists claim he was 'killed' to cover up his secret formula, despite the fact everything he wrote is freely available online. Go figure.

You may want to watch/listen to eco-pioneer Stewart Brand (Whole Earth Catalog) discussing facts and figures on renewables. For example 10% of electrical power in the US comes from recycled soviet warheads. I didn't know that the sun provides 240 watts/sq meter.

[Pal]

Certainly it will not produce huge volumes of energy, but as I mentioned earlier
in tidal energy idea, http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ergy-idea.html, many countries in North Africa and the Near East have no rivers or hydro capacity at all, these countries would show more interest in land ideas.

[Ein~+ein]

... many countries in North Africa and the Near East have no rivers or hydro capacity at all, these countries would show more interest in land ideas.

...and you're thinking gravity?!? Those places are ideal for solar!!! Spain, for example generates 250 Megawatts of power from just 2 solar stations. You can't get that from elevator efficiency increases. If the entire Sahara desert were one big solar farm, it would generate... [why not research that to get an idea?]

You've got to be realistic. While your creative brainstorming approach to our pressing energy vs environmental sustainability problem is highly commendable, it's unfortunate that there aren't others on this forum doing the same. What's needed is a public think tank to generate the wealth of ideas needed to come up with novel and practical approached from an engineering perspective. You may wish to search around for such a forum and report back if you find one.

[Pal]

Solar energy is intermittent. At nights and cloudy days it does not work; desert storms could cover the panels and sand abrasion could harm them.
According to the “U.S. energy overview 2011” (World Almanac) renewable energy constitutes 9.4 % of total national energy consumption – out of that nearly half is biomass (mainly ethanol which reduces the food supply), 12.4 % is wind energy, and only 0.16 % is solar energy. This indicates the low significance of solar energy’s contribution. And then there is the problem of energy storage at night in the desert.
Off-peak-electricity is handled by pumped energy storage (at night water is pumped up into reservoirs and during the day it is released and turns hydro turbines); or by encouraging the population to wash dishes and laundry in the late evening hours - using smart meters and discounted prices.
Perhaps the solution would be to build more reservoirs and release the water into canals and locks (hence my previous posting about floating barges) and your idea about placing turbines into locks and canal floors.
Developed countries which have several options to choose from are able to select only the most feasible projects. Developing countries with very few options, because of their geography and level of technology, often have to resort to an expensive but the only available option, for example, a dam in an arid country with only one river. In developing countries too cost overruns are almost the norm these days.
Renewable energy sources have a major disadvantage, they are intermittent (even hydro has to have a secure water supply, biomass has to grow), - only geothermal and gravity are consistent and available.

[Ein~+ein]

Solar energy is intermittent. At nights and cloudy days it does not work; desert storms could cover the panels and sand abrasion could harm them.

You didn't get my point about the Sahara--can you forget the pragmatics for just a minute and do the math? Furthermore, isn't demand greatest during daylight hours? Of course, there's need for nighttime electricity but that's why I encouraged you to look into what are called energy 'currencies'

[Ein~+ein]

Solar energy is intermittent. At nights and cloudy days it does not work; desert storms could cover the panels and sand abrasion could harm them.

You didn't get my point about the Sahara--can you forget the pragmatics for just a minute and do the math? Furthermore, isn't demand greatest during daylight hours? Of course, there's need for nighttime electricity but that's why I encouraged you to look into what are called energy 'currencies'

[Pal]

According to the Renewable energy statistics of the European commission
Gross energy production 2010 of EU countries
Renewable energy sources share of the total was 8.7 - the breakdown
6 Biomass (waste)
1.6 Hydro
0.7 Wind
0.3 Geothermal
0.1 Solar
These figures indicate the difficulties (cost and technology) of implementing solar energy installations.
How much more difficult would be erecting high voltage pylons amidst shifting sand dunes in the middle of Sahara? - And who is going to buy the power? Where is the infrastructure, the big cities, industry, electric railways, etc.? Mathematically the sun’s rays have enormous capacity, but solar energy installations still do not play a major role, even in developed countries. Poor countries first need to develop their economies, and in parallel start their energy foundation with small scale solar projects however the priority of foreign aid is still food.