Is it just me? I'm not seeing much evidence for either Suppression or FE?

[Ein~+ein]

Il Maestro...Leonardo Da Vinci...in the late Fifteen Century designed the first Helicopter model in sketches and models...and someone could tell ME here...that we are still using that machine as a "State of the Art" for Vertical take off and landing?!...and it must be done with a stinking Gas Engine?

No, but it certainly isn't a HODS.

[Duncan]

Just .. grist to the mill!

I apologize for some of the replies Ein~+ein. People in places like this tend to take these things personally, even if it's a honest skepticism. They're right about the facts however; there is a mountain of hard evidence that FE is possible and that Suppression is a real thing, all you have to do is know how to ask the right questions (which i'd say you did with this thread :B).

My own theory is that the government has plenty of working FE technology in black projects and suppresses public attempts at making similar working technologies, leaving the ones that clearly don't work to flood the market, which would be why you see so many FE scams.

http://www.energeticforum.com/water-...tml#post231137

[Duncan]

The job of the sceptic ...

Paid agents as pointed out by J.B
1 watt challenge.wmv - YouTube

Бедини и промыватели мозга.flv - YouTube

[Farmhand]

No It's not just you, Einstein, there is suppression of certain things efficient
carburetor's for one thing, "Lean burn" technology implemented by Chrysler in
the 70's in some the Valliant Range of cars suspiciously disappeared. The
Sarich orbital motor was bought up by GM and shelved I think.

But as far as the free energy field who needs active overt suppression when
there are so many fake claims with no proof to discredit the "free energy
movement" and by free energy I mean legitimate free energy that can be
collected used and measured ie. proven technology. Not the magic OU with no
explanation of where it comes from and no proof it even existed to be claimed.

I issue a challenge to all those who posted here making fun of Einstein.

Show us the OU.

UFO show us where you have demonstrated "extra" energy out of a system
like a motor generator.

Duncan same challenge to you show us an example of absolute proof of extra
energy out of a motor or such device not words show us the energy being
measured.

Free energy exists, but energy cannot come from nowhere and people cannot
create energy, it must be utilized from existing energy in the form of useful
work to be considered harnessed or utilized but it can be done in ways other
than solar, wind,hydro ect, they are not the only ways to harness energy
from the environment without needing to pay anyone else to use it. And there
are people who would like to keep certain things secret.

But it is true they have no need to actively suppress, they would be much
more successful by discrediting the movement from within, a few ways would
work, by elaborate vague and difficult to disprove claims that suck in a lot of
people and burn them off the subject.

By just outright ridiculous claims that still get a lot of suckers, and embarrass
everyone else.

By people pretending to be free energy supporters spreading fear and paranoia.

By people using the gullible or hopeful to make money, which can work in
several ways also.

So the way I see it 99 % of the actual instances of suppression on the forums
are all inside jobs.

There has been papers written on the methods of the "free energy preacher
suppression artists".

What convinces me that so many are deluded is when they swear I am a paid
disinformant or a paid shill and abuse me with the most foul and disgusting
filth, and yet I am no paid shill, I know it as do others. I question a lot of
things for sure as we should. But to refer to the number of posts a person like
myself has made and label them a paid disinformant, is downright pathetic and
I see no reason to take any of those people seriously in anything they say.

To the people making the claims of OU or extra energy out over energy in
where is it ?

And to add the only threats of violence I have had have come from OU
claimants on the forums when asked legitimate questions too many times, or
from their other account profiles or from their followers.

Cheers

[Duncan]

more of the same...

If you think I'm going to fall for that closed loop measuring rubbish think again! COP+1 systems of the type you and your ilk are referring to are not closed loop .. the power source is reactive effectively in a different mathematical dimension … Just as John Bedini said loud and clear
neither am I prepared to to start building anything for your amusement. I consider you paid opposition (as you well know) having looked at Es posts I start to view him in the same light .. Just as JB says sceptics have one job to perform on forums.
If you really don't believe COP+1 machines exist and are not a possibility what are you doing fouling up a forum dedicated to the study of such things? Go and join E.. fishing and line dancing. And leave the people alone who are actually doing it.

[Ufopolitics]

Prove, prove...prove

It is not a simple matter... just like counting "1,2,3..." that simple, to fully prove to the "Demanding Skeptics Audience" how to brake/violate/ridicule laws and technology that WE have allowed to survive for more time that anyone's here lifetime's...this ancient technologies go back to a few ancestors generations from ours...

It is not just about "A Suppressed Machine"...but the means to control those Machines must also be "different" from the "locked in time models/laws/means to control them"...and by using just "one item" it would not make it happen in a full proof...and it is because it has not been "just" the suppression of "just" one Machine...but several...to discover a Whole New Methodology that expands to many sizes/structures...as also the means to govern/control them.

My Guys in my Thread has shown many videos where You could clearly see where an "Original/Locked in time Machine" draws over 100 Amps...while the ones shown...built in the exact same structure... only take 12 to 15 Amps to perform the same/exact tasks...and then some more...time will tell...and we are not talking about just a "few less amps" here...so, yes, in time we will prove it...but, we are not in ANY Hurry to prove to NO ONE HERE...if or if not...just watch Us...

And related to the "Flying Machines" ...I WILL ALSO prove beyond doubt...it CAN BE DONE...and VERY STABLE, and VERY POWERFUL, and VERY SAFE...not falling off the skies like an Old Typing Machine from the 1800's...and exploding in flames...burning everyone on board like a BBQ...BUT, instead...like a Feather in the wind...gliding slowly in case of "malfunction"...and yes,It will be "coming soon to a Theater near you"...(And those who know me knows I will do it, no BS.) it will be all my pleasure to show it and demonstrate it here...That has been "My Dream"...to see this type of Flying Cars...Flying Crafts since I was a kid...without ANY need to use reciprocating/explosion/burning/farting of stinking Oil based ancient Machines Tech...

And when you get to discover and MAKE/BUILD... ALL THIS THINGS HIDDEN SO FAR....Yes, it makes me to take it into "VERY" Personal Levels...as YOU should, also...this has been a threat to Mankind and Planet Earth disappearance and we all, just like Sheeples, have allowed it to occur/happen for way too long....and criticizing, demanding proof...or arguing and trying to set in the ridicule side...is absolutely NOT a way to Help Us all...cause the "Triumphant New Technologies " is not "only selected" to a specific group...but for all of Us to enjoy their benefits.

Many People here...like that Thread you (Ein~tein) mentioned from Inventionmaster...They have "stumbled" (in most cases by accident) with a way to harness FE...but unfortunately they do not have the required knowledge/capacity/funds to proceed...and that is why they come here...and that is TO GET HELP...and NOT TO BE CRITICIZED..or trying to set them in the ridicule...like all skeptics like YOU and many others here now...love to do...and Most, not even knowing how to install a light switch in your own houses...and that "In My World" is called "Audacity/Daring Personalities...without having the "slightest" background to "Play the Roll as a Judge".


Ufopolitics

[Allcanadian]

@Einstein

My argument is that this belief in suppression and conspiracy theories is so so strong that it clouds people's better judgement. What other scam rakes in the millions that FE does?

I think better judgement is relative, consider that the average automobile has a total efficiency near 16%. That is the most widely used standard technology we know of wastes 84% of the energy input. Now if a person was a true skeptic they could only come to the obvious conclusion that we are either stupid or incompetent... or both.

You see it is not so much that we truly believe in unlimited free energy pouring in from some magical source but more so we reject mainstream society because it is insane. You are insane because every day you jump into your car and fire it up without questioning it and accept it as the norm just as most everyone does.

This relates to a common phrase in psychology, the only ones who are truly insane are the ones who believe they are not in some way. So I understand that you may believe your opinion's are logical and that logic is infallible however it is impossible to deny the fact that "normal" does not work and could be considered as insane in the proper context.

What other scam rakes in the millions that FE does?

The supercolliders have cost billions upon billions of dollars and promise a clean free energy source however the last few decades of work have produced no proof it works nor that it ever will. That's kind of comical isn't it?, here you are all worked up over a few million dollars yet when mainstream science does exactly the same thing it goes without question. You see a true skeptic does not just question the things they don't agree with they question everything.

On another note of interest if we took all the millions lost to free energy scams in the last 20 years it would still be considerably less than NASA spent to develop a simple toilet that works in space.... it's all relative.

AC

[Ein~+ein]

...but unfortunately they do not have the required knowledge/capacity/funds to proceed...and that is why they come here...and that is TO GET HELP...

What more proof do you people need that belief obscures judgement?
Once again, Inventionmaster:
a) claimed he had 'rebuilt a generator to produce free energy';
b) claimed he had designed far more complex devices;
c) claimed he had 16 yrs of experience designing free energy devices;
d) did not ask for technical help;
e) did not ask for money (unless he PM'd those cheering for him?).

If one subscribes to the suppression theory, then such blatant lies are either part of a childish attention-seeking prank, or part of his professional duties, perhaps in this case to test the gullibility level among members here. It would follow then that ANYONE making an unsubstantiated claim for free energy and refusing to allow independent testing etc, COULD BE FREE ENERGY SUPPRESSORS IN DISGUISE.

Beware, they're everywhere!

[Duncan]

@Einstein


I think better judgement is relative, consider that the average automobile has a total efficiency near 16%. That is the most widely used standard technology we know of wastes 84% of the energy input. Now if a person was a true skeptic they could only come to the obvious conclusion that we are either stupid or incompetent... or both.

You see it is not so much that we truly believe in unlimited free energy pouring in from some magical source but more so we reject mainstream society because it is insane. You are insane because every day you jump into your car and fire it up without questioning it and accept it as the norm just as most everyone does.

This relates to a common phrase in psychology, the only ones who are truly insane are the ones who believe they are not in some way. So I understand that you may believe your opinion's are logical and that logic is infallible however it is impossible to deny the fact that "normal" does not work and could be considered as insane in the proper context.



The supercolliders have cost billions upon billions of dollars and promise a clean free energy source however the last few decades of work have produced no proof it works nor that it ever will. That's kind of comical isn't it?, here you are all worked up over a few million dollars yet when mainstream science does exactly the same thing it goes without question. You see a true skeptic does not just question the things they don't agree with they question everything.

On another note of interest if we took all the millions lost to free energy scams in the last 20 years it would still be considerably less than NASA spent to develop a simple toilet that works in space.... it's all relative.

AC

Just for the hell of it I'll go with your spiel about the car and the 16% … I'll ignore for the moment the Pouge carburettor, Mayer’s water fracture along with Puharich,billings ,Boyce and all the rest …. your opposition so your having none of that …..So lets do a historical think .. of where a super efficient ICE engine would have to used with full government support and mass produced lets see what happened to it and its development .. and see if the patent “crowding has taken place as mentioned... History
WW2 Germany prepared to lock horns with the mightiest maritime power of the age Britain.
Not that Germany didn't have a feasible plan .. she did … U boats … the plan was blow British shipping out of the water …. Starve that little **** O'l of an Island into surrender.
U boats were not particularly big …. “floating coffins” they became known as however they had to range thousands of miles to all four corners of the world.
The stresses and requirements of such a power plant are obvious everything you question actually AC .. very light, huge power to weight ratio,reliable, powerful and most importantly very very efficient … This is real life conditions not some made up fanny ….. The Germans themselves are not to bad at engineering in a slap stick sort of way, (Morris Minors much better of course) But obviously they needed the best engine for the job …. It was Swiss, As you see from this Wiki .. Sulzer refused to break the ties with Nazi Germany the prospect of all those U boat engines was just to good to miss
Sulzer (manufacturer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So this 84% where does most of it go? Up comes a piston .. compression .. bang .. vectors in all directions a few of which force the piston back down .. most of which are a spent Force against the cylinder sides and head and wasted as heat
but what if there were two movable pistons? Not quite twice as much “bang for you buck”but very close. The allies after war were also a little down at heel , They decided they could use this very efficient engine themselves.
They rushed to copy the Swiss design and opened plants in the USA,Britain and Australia, The engineering was not of Swiss quality … but the engines very soon became known as extremely frugal light weight powerful work horses … which could push a lorry along pretty much at the same economy as a family saloon The thing was knocked out here in the UK by the Roots group
http://www.oldengine.org/members/die...erTS3/TS35.jpg
It was never developed for the family saloon .. can you guess why not boys and girls?
What of the patent grabbing ? Who's watching this particular “hot potato” for big stinking oil do you think?
Bill Gates invests in new engine made in Troy - YouTube
Well that was three or four years ago … The thing was dumped nearly 50 years ago because it was far to efficient and as for development .. the Swiss did all that nearly a hundred years ago , anyone else fancy going up against Bill Gates who knows a thing or two about patents in order to produce?
Neither would I bother holding you breath for this frugal .. powerful .. lightweight engine .. consider it ….. well tied up and buried... like every thing else more efficient than... Commer "knocker" engine is back - Agriculture - Machinery - General News - North Queensland Register

[chainmailleman]

@Farmhand

I'm not poking fun at Ein~+ein. I'm sick of him insulting people and derailing the entire forum by making new threads with off-topic subjects that pose no benefit to anyone.

If I had an OU device, why would I post its plans/schematics here? Why would I waste years of research and hard work, not to mention a lucrative business, just to prove something to someone I have never met?

The sad truth is you will never see a real OU device on this forum. EVER. It's just not logical. This forum is titled "Renewable Energy" and not "Free Energy" for a reason.

[Allcanadian]

@Duncan

Just for the hell of it I'll go with your spiel about the car and the 16% … I'll ignore for the moment the Pouge carburettor, Mayer’s water fracture along with Puharich,billings ,Boyce and all the rest …. your opposition so your having none of that …..So lets do a historical think .. of where a super efficient ICE engine would have to used with full government support and mass produced lets see what happened to it and its development .

I am not sure I understand where your going with all this. In the past I have experimented with gassifiers like Pouge's unit and with HHO and would agree they work very well. Heck about 30 years ago I built a super lean burn system with water injection to moderate combustion as well as a co-gen unit, wind turbine and passive solar heating panels for my shop.

A person could say I was building "alternative" technology and firmly believed in it well before it became so fashionable so there is no need to try and convince me of anything or imply I may be opposed to it.

AC

[Ein~+ein]

If I had an OU device, why would I post its plans/schematics here? Why would I waste years of research and hard work, not to mention a lucrative business,...

Show me the lucrative FE device businesses that aren't scams. That's what Farmhand and I are asking for.

[freepenguin]

Free Energy is impossible in Einstein's universe.
Einstein supported the Big Bang theory.
The Big Bang universe is a close system, where total energy is fixed in the beginning. In any close loop system achieving overunity is impossible.
And under Einstein's theory of General Relativity, mainstream scientists did invented pure non-nonsensical masturbation of imagination:
Black Holes do exist somewhere in universe? Instead many White Holes exist that create new matter.
The source energy of star comes from thermal nuclear fusion inside star's core. If so, all stars are contradict to laws of thermodynamics.
Gravity bend light. It's been proven to be false.
Gravity don't bend space around an object.
Time and space are probably complete different entities contrary to four dimensional spacetime which Einstein invented for his universe.
Einstein's theory of Relativity exploded already by few scientists.

The final blow to the theory of Relativity is actual speed of gravity.
Newton assumed speed of gravity is instantaneous to explain orbits of planets and comets using his gravitational law.

[Allcanadian]

@ chainmailleman

If I had an OU device, why would I post its plans/schematics here? Why would I waste years of research and hard work, not to mention a lucrative business,...

Why?, to prove to yourself that you are a better person than the ones we criticize, to prove there is a better way and to prove we are not willing to put our children's future at risk for our own personal needs. I would do it in a heartbeat.

@Einstein

Show me the lucrative FE device businesses that aren't scams. That's what Farmhand and I are asking for.

Wind, Solar and Micro-hydro come to mind however my interpretation of "Free Energy" is broader than most people. As well I have little interest in any free energy device including those proposed here if it is not affordable, sustainable or attainable for everyone. It may not sound like it at times but I would agree with most everything you have said on some level. We all want the same thing.

AC

[Duncan]

alternative energy systems that are not scams there are many but just one off the top of my head in use at several airports in Europe and by municipalities in the USA Ruggero santilli's Magnegas would be a pretty good example , yet another system developed over a hundred years ago and suppressed .. as it still is of course, municipalities and airports are no use what so ever to the population .. Its just another tax they have already paid for.
MagneGas' Ruggero Maria Santilli: Faces of Technology - YouTube
… one in every bodies back garden that’s a different matter ... and thats not going to happen without a drastic change.
But just to halt the “stuck record “ which you and all the other paid pessimist Naysayers blab on and on and on about … there is the “just one” you asked for … so don’t ask for any more.
As you say a bog that works on a space ship undoubtedly costs far more than the research into “alternative energy” the difference is the mass of the people had no choice in how the wealth they had earned was squandered in that regard. The main job of naysayers is to perpetuate the “scam” aspect and Indeed originate scams themselves so preventing serious Investment in the vast majority of real and very dedicated researchers … Its like holding the lid on a big pressure cooker Its going to blow off with a big bang very soon!
As free penguin points out our world is in the grip of an evil contrived illusion.
How Parallel Path Gets Over Unity

Oh Dear look Penguin here's the next generation of suckers being groomed





Makes you want to sort of try and shout at them "no it doesn't not when things are in spin" and everything is to some degree or another.
http://www.free-energy.ws/pdf/spinning_ball.pdf