Lindemann rotary attraction

[CrazyUncleJay]

I am trying to get my attraction motor to work. Ive built it to be like the x-rotor that lindemann and bedini designed

Lindemann attraction motor - YouTube

Im using a 3055 transistor ,4002 diode, and 2 220ohm1/2watt resistors and a magnetic switch. It seems like the transistor isnt turning on. Ive tryed a few transistors just in case i had a bad one and that didnt work. Ive tested the switch on a 9v batter and it turns on and off just fine. Im guessing it must be my resistance is maybe too high?? And that is what is preventing the base from getting a strong enough signal? If anyone could give some advise or tell me where i can read the info i seek please help me out. I am very interested in getting this to run

[Berg]

Hi CrazyUncleJay,

I have a lot of respect for Dr. Lindemann.

He brought us Bob Teal's discovery, Magnipulsion.

Bob Teal | Magnipulsion| Missing Interview - YouTube

Teal's system uses attraction only with no magnets.

Lindemann's motor is based on that discovery.

However, one way you can a pretty good result with low power is to use magnets, according to Robert Murray-Smith.

(Be forewarned the audio is kind of choppy.)

Free Energy Power Amplifier - 1 - YouTube

Free energy power amplifier - 2 - YouTube

Free Energy Power Amplifier 3 - YouTube

Free Energy power amplifier - 4 - a new implementation - YouTube

It seems like the magnets magnify the power somehow.

Good luck with your experiments.

Cheers,

Berg

[CrazyUncleJay]

Thanks i dont mean to be ungreatful for the help but if i try magnets ill have ignored that im trying to keep the cutting of magnetic fields with magnets in a seperate part of the machine . I dont want the back emf in my motor. This part needs torque and allowing back emf will work against me

If anyone has any other suggestions it would be appritiated

[gyula]

IF you have a DC voltmeter, you may wish to check the voltage between the collector and emitter of the 3055 transistor.
When the reed switch is OFF, you should measure the full run battery voltage across the C-E (positive probe is on C negative probe is on E).
And when the reed is activated on purpose by you, the C-E voltage should go down to 0.2V or lower if it functions correctly as a switch.
If this does not happen, then does the C-E voltage change at all? In this case check also the base-emitter voltage, when the reed is ON the B-E voltage should appear and should be 0.65 to 0.75V or so as a forward bias.
These checks should reveal something. Will be back later.

[CrazyUncleJay]

That..... Is one of the best pieces of advise someone could have given. My c e voltage should be at 0 when the switch connection has not been completed. Because im new to electronics and have no schooling and have to google everything i might make mistakes in my transistor selection. The 3055 is a junction fet... And from the test you suggested... Is normaly on? I believe i want the oppisit and it should be enhansed mode mos fet. You made me work for it but i think im headed in the right direction now . Going to radio shack today lol. Thanks.

[citfta]

Hi CrazyUncleJay,

gyula gave you good advise but you apparently did not understand what he said. The 3055 is a plain old bipolar transistor. Which means it is OFF when no voltage is applied to the base. This means when it is off the full voltage from the battery or power source will be at the collector in reference to the emitter. In other words when the reed switch is not made the transistor is not turned on and the current going to the coil has no place to go so you will see with your meter the full voltage at the collector. When the reed turns on then the circuit will supply voltage to the base of the transistor and cause it to turn on. Now the current has some place to go. It goes to ground through the collector to emitter junction and this causes the voltage to drop because of the resistance of the coil. As gyula said when the transistor is turned on then the voltage from the collector to the emitter should be about .2 volts or so.

Please go back and read what gyula posted again and keep in mind that when the transistor is OFF there will be full voltage from collector to emitter and when the transistor is ON there will be only a few tenths of a volt from the collector to the emitter.

I hope this helps some, Carroll

[CrazyUncleJay]

Ok so in beginner turms... The 3055 should work for this circut and i dont need to go get a mos fet? If thats the case can you tell me what ohm and watt resistors i might want to try. I know i have a working switch and transistor but it seems like the transistor isnt being activated. The only thing i can think is that im eating all of the signal that should goto the base in the resistor and its not turning on. I thought my problem was the kind of transistor because things im reading say the mos fet will allow full current through the emitter collector when ever any current is applied to the gate and with the jfet(3055) it only let more current flow in proportion to the base signal. Is that right

[gyula]

Please measure the DC voltage across the base-emitter of the 3055 (a bipolar transistor, not a FET, its full name is 2N3055) when you activate the reed on purpose, okay? This can check the transistor B-E diode. It is okay that you are new to electronics but if you ask for help then at least follow the pieces of advice please. So back to my first post and check what I asked.

Also, check whether the battery voltage appears on the junction point of the reed and the upper 220 Ohm resistor when you switch on the reed on purpose. Will be back.

[CrazyUncleJay]

Will do. Thanks for being patient with me. I want it to work so bad i keep trying to rush. Ill run all the tests tonight. Thanks again. Ill post back after testing

[CrazyUncleJay]

Wow . I think my switch is bad...

C and E= 11.72 switch on and off
B and E= .73 switch on
B and E= .75 switch off
Top resistor and switch = 0 switch on
Top resistor and switch = 3.3 switch off

If i test with a 9v battery the switch reads
8.5 switch on
0 switch off

What do you think?

[citfta]

Something is not right

Hi again,

According to your testing something is not right. I don't have enough information to figure out what is wrong. I tried to watch your video yesterday but it would only play for about 30 seconds and then stop. I tried to watch it again this morning and it says it has been removed. You really need to post some good pictures of what you have and also a drawing (schematic) of your circuit if you want to get some help.

Your testing is showing some contradictory information. Your testing with a 9 volt battery appears to be showing the switch is good. I don't understand what you mean by the test of the switch and top resistor but that test seems to be showing the switch is doing something. However the voltages on the transistor would indicate the transistor is bad. If the transistor has .73 volts or so on the base then the transistor should be turned on which would mean there should only be about .2 to .3 volts or so from the collector to the emitter. I couldn't tell from what little I saw of the video but it is very easy to get the base and emitter mixed up on the 2N3055 transistor. You may have them connected backwards and that would explain the odd voltages on the transistor.

Looking at what little I could see of the video I don't understand how that motor could run. I think you said in an earlier post you did not use magnets. Then what is supposed to turn on the switch? What I saw in the video I thought was a reed switch. A reed switch has to have a magnet to turn it on. Also it has to turn the coil on at exactly the right time. Your reed switch looked to be about 90 degrees or so from the upright pole pieces. That is much too far away to get the armature attracted to the pole pieces. The coil also looks to be much too small to build a decent magnetic field. If the coil is not large enough it will also draw a lot of current from your power source and overheat or burn out your transistor. Also what are the pole pieces and the rotor made of? If they are not soft iron the motor will probably not run either.

If I can make a suggestion for you, you really need to take the time to study basic DC electricity. And after that you will need to study semiconductors. There is nothing at all wrong with being new to electronics. None of us was born knowing about transistors and diodes and such. We all had to learn. But you will save yourself a lot of headaches if you take the time to learn the basics. There are numerous sites on the internet where you can get all kinds of training. A lot of them are free.

Respectfully, Carroll

[gyula]

Hi,

I agree with Carroll. Carroll, thanks for chiming in.
The above measurements indicate most probably your 2N3055 transistor is faulty (maybe its collector-emitter became a perpetual open circuit, regardless of B-E bias). It is also a problem that at reed switch OFF, the B-E voltage measures .75V. it should be zero because the reed switch interrupted the battery positive pole from the two resistors, right? And if you unconnect the transistor base from the middle point of the two resistors, then you should measure half the battery voltage between this middle point and the transistor emitter (when only the base is removed from the resistors middle point, that is).

If your reed works with 9V but problematic (to put it gently) with your 12V battery then there must be some wireing issues in the 12V circuit, no?

I forgot to mention that when checking the voltage on the junction point of the reed and the upper 220 Ohm resistor when you switch ON the reed on purpose, I meant checking the voltage with respect to the emitter of the transistor, just to see whether the reed passes through the battery positive to the resistors. The fact that you measured .73V across B-E when the reed was ON, it may indicate the reed works BUT when the reed is OFF the B-E voltage should fully disappear and the voltmeter should read zero Volt (while you found .75V).

Now I suggest:

After unconnecting only the base of the transistor but all the rest of your circuit should be as intended, check the DC voltage across the lower 220 Ohm resistor: meter positive to the middle point of the two resistors, meter negative to the emitter of the transistor. you should see half of the full battery voltage when reed switch is ON by your intention. And when the reed is OFF you should measure zero Volt, ok?

IF the above point is ok, then please use your Ohm meter and measure the resistance of your coil (unconnect its wire from the circuit). If you find your coil has less than 1 Ohm resistance then your number of turns is rather low or there is a short circuit somewhere between the windings. IF you recall the length of the total wire used for the coil, you can find online data on DC resistance for different wire gauge at 1000 feet or 100 meter, to get a good estimation in advance).
So if your coil is 1 Ohm or less due to any of the two reasons then a brand new transistor will become faulty the moment you use it because when it switches ON in the first moment the coil current will be higher than 12A if its DC resistance is less than 1 Ohm, ok?
So you may rewind your coil if it is needed to rewind: I guess you would need several thousand turns (at least 4000-5000 turns) to have a sufficient Amper Turns for attracting in the rotor by a decent force in your setup. Depending on your wire gauge, the DC resistance may come as 5-10 Ohm for that much number of turns, together with a decent some hundred milliHenry coil inductance.

I hope these hints may serve you and keep you on.

Now what next? Do not give up if your removing the video may mean that. Have you seen this schematic, maybe you followed it:
Rotary Attraction Motor Update

greetings, Gyula

[CrazyUncleJay]

Sorry the video has been taken down. I was slightly embarrised by it. Im going to do a rebuild and then make a new video in a day or 2. I will use alot more windings and somehow widen the ends of the keeper. The attraction has too short of an area to take place in before the rotor rod gets locked in to the center position and as you said theres not enough windings to make a strong EM. As far as the circut goes ill put a drawling on the plywood and run the wires on top of it.with the transistor .... I watched the " lindemann rotary attraction " video and the person in it said they were using a power mosfet so thats what i switched to and it did atleast turn on and off even though i need a faster sharper switch. The transistor DID heat up fast!! Im hoping more windings will help get that under controll if more windings will allow more current to exit the transistor. With learning.... I think i have diodes and resistors down, i do need a good beginners guid on transistors and how to decide what one to use , what is the min and max voltage to turn on and off and all of the basics in that area. If you could suggest a good place to start ... That would help. On a side note ... I love tinkering around with the circuts and mechanical components that the circuts are driving and am learning alot through trial and error.

[gyula]

Hi,

You need not be embarassed at all, we all had to start from zero.

It is okay you plan to use more windings, together with taking care of the magnetic surface areas participating in attraction.
IT is also good you consider using MOSFETs as switches, they certainly can have smaller inherent losses than bipolar transistors do. A transistor (regardless of being a bipolar type os a MOSFET) can heat up fast indeed if its ON time is too long and the current through it is also high while the voltage across its collector and emitter is also high.
You can always consider such switch as one of the members of a voltage divider where the other member of the divider is the coil itself you wish to switch. Considering this, the power taken from the supply battery is also divided into two parts: one part dissipates in the switch the other part is used up by the electromagnet.
How the power divison is determined: just consider the voltage divider members individual impedances. For the switch it is a dynamic impedance when your setup operates, and the coil's impedance is also a dynamic one, influenced by the rpm of the rotor too - confront this with the frequency of the switch. However if you have an almost stationary rotor with very low rpm then the coil impedance diminishes to the value of its DC coil resistance. Because you wish to have as small heat dissipation in your switch as possible, you may wish to choose its DC ON resistance at least ten times less than that of the coil's DC resistance, right? This way the operational voltage divison between the switch and the coil insures roughly 1:10 ratio: meaning roughly 1V will be lost across the switch and 9V will operate the electromagnet if you had a 10V supply voltage, even if your rotor rpm would be zero. However if your coil has a similar DC resistance like your switch has then more voltage is divided across the switch and less voltage will operate the electromagnet. Just like voltage divider's division ratio dictates...

Here is a useful tutorial on bipolar transistors, out of the many links: The Bipolar Transistor Tutorial, The BJT and a youtube one: Retrobrad Presents! Electronics Tutorial 7 - Introduction to Transistors (BJT's) - YouTube this latter guy seems to have a video on MOSFETs too: Retrobrad Presents! - Electronics Tutorial 9 Introduction to MOSFETS - YouTube
and here is a video using a digital multimeter (DMM) with its diode test feature to test bipolar power trnasistors like your 3055, if you do not have the same type DMM it is still useful with other DMM types having a diode test feature. testing a transistor using a volt meter DMM Multi Meter How to check a transistor - YouTube

Good luck and bare with my being absent for a week or so from tomorrow.

rgds, Gyula

[wrtner]

Now what next? Do not give up if your removing the video may mean that. Have you seen this schematic, maybe you followed it:
Rotary Attraction Motor Update

greetings, Gyula

Someting I have wondered about:

Iron is hard to get - very hard. (Even wrought iron is often actually wrought steel)

Can we use regular transformer cores? They are designed for magnetic fields switching at a modest pace.