Use the Force Luke ... Use the Force!

[GSM]

Permanent magnet generator with no relative motion between magnet and coil - YouTube
Dave

The electrical energy generated is LESS than the mechanical input of motional energy essential to break the magnetic field linkage !

Wesley Gary solved this problem 135 years ago !!!!!

Check half way down this webpage -
Wesley Gary's Magnetic Motor

He used a cam to prevent magnetic flux gap closure and saturation via mechanical contact, plus compression springs to counter the magnetic force of attraction, both such that electric current generation via critical alignment and positional oscillation about his 'Neutral Line' discovery relating to sudden field reversals -
!!!!! ----- which did not require additional energy input to initiate ----- !!!!!
could -
generate electrical output from cam controlled cyclically induced mechanical movement
WITHOUT
either -
back-EMF related energy sapping oppositions !!!!!,
or -
having to overcome normal forces required to physically alter magnetic flux linkages between the polarising magnet and his cored transducer !!!!!

WE are long overdue a *scientific* explanation of Wardforce !

Is it a rotational manifestation and utilisation of Mr Gary's prior findings and explanations, and thus a supposedly "Free Energy" derivation via relative rotational motion through a magnetic field, instead of longitudinal motion with respect to one, via which Wesley genuinely demonstrated so long ago does indeed lead to *Free Energy* generation (ie. greater electrical energy output than mechanical energy input required to generate same) ?

!!!!! What has been erased from Wesley Gary's Patent illustration is a set of output polarity reversing switches capable of 'rectifying' the alternating output potential into a DC supply, which would have enabled his mechanical device to run automatically via a small conventional permanent magnet electric motor driving the edge of that large end gear wheel and thus causing the coil-armature assembly to be cam driven and oscillate through its *neutral zone* wrt the fixed permanent magnet !!!!!

Steven, is you mechanism an inverse operation being rotary instead of longitudinal ?
Even so - all of that power noise in your videos (Wardforce energy transduction costs) with just a tiny lamp lit !
Free energy ?

Cheers ................ Graham.

PS.
Turion - I have lit LEDS as in that video ***** without ***** equivalent energy expenditure; this via a Wesley Gary arrangement.

Wesley Gary Neutral Zone - Video Dailymotion

[boguslaw]

Don Smith device with a plate inside in neutral zone. In plate there are points of magnetic noedymium dust glued

[erfinder]

The electrical energy generated is LESS than the mechanical input of motional energy essential to break the magnetic field linkage !

Wesley Gary solved this problem 135 years ago !!!!!

Check half way down this webpage -
Wesley Gary's Magnetic Motor

He used a cam to prevent magnetic flux gap closure and saturation via mechanical contact, plus compression springs to counter the magnetic force of attraction, both such that electric current generation via critical alignment and positional oscillation about his 'Neutral Line' discovery relating to sudden field reversals -
!!!!! ----- which did not require additional energy input to initiate ----- !!!!!
could -
generate electrical output from cam controlled cyclically induced mechanical movement
WITHOUT
either -
back-EMF related energy sapping oppositions !!!!!,
or -
having to overcome normal forces required to physically alter magnetic flux linkages between the polarising magnet and his cored transducer !!!!!

WE are long overdue a *scientific* explanation of Wardforce !

Is it a rotational manifestation and utilisation of Mr Gary's prior findings and explanations, and thus a supposedly "Free Energy" derivation via relative rotational motion through a magnetic field, instead of longitudinal motion with respect to one, via which Wesley genuinely demonstrated so long ago does indeed lead to *Free Energy* generation (ie. greater electrical energy output than mechanical energy input required to generate same) ?

!!!!! What has been erased from Wesley Gary's Patent illustration is a set of output polarity reversing switches capable of 'rectifying' the alternating output potential into a DC supply, which would have enabled his mechanical device to run automatically via a small conventional permanent magnet electric motor driving the edge of that large end gear wheel and thus causing the coil-armature assembly to be cam driven and oscillate through its *neutral zone* wrt the fixed permanent magnet !!!!!

Steven, is you mechanism an inverse operation being rotary instead of longitudinal ?
Even so - all of that power noise in your videos (Wardforce energy transduction costs) with just a tiny lamp lit !
Free energy ?

Cheers ................ Graham.

PS.
Turion - I have lit LEDS as in that video ***** without ***** equivalent energy expenditure; this via a Wesley Gary arrangement.

Wesley Gary Neutral Zone - Video Dailymotion

Your biased view negates anything that Ward could say. This is the same thing that I ran into the last time, my view was biased, and I couldn't understand him. Now I'm sure you've noted....he either can't explain it any better than he already has, or doesn't wish to. He doesn't appear to be coming at this from the text book side of things, and as such, will not be able to provide you with the scientific point of view that you require. The concept is summed up in the patent that I posted. If there is anymore to it, we have to have an open mind and no preconceived notions, or favorites by which we make comparisons.

One thing I will say in Mr. Wards defense, the man has put together a few machines which is more than I can say for most. You say (implied) that the concept under discussion is inferior to that of Wesly, what are you prepared to demonstrate to support this claim. One good experiment demonstrating your findings would be appreciated at this point. I have seen the video you posted, and it left me asking the same questions I was asking before I viewed the video. To be completely honest, I see no difference between the Wesly device and whats being discussed, but that's my opinion, based on experiments that I have performed.

Regards

[Turion]

I am a very simple guy. Some might say simple minded, which is a possibility. I understand CONCEPTUALLY what Gary is doing, just as I understand CONCEPTUALLY what Steve Ward is doing, but for ME to actually build a device THAT DOES ANY USEFUL WORK based on their descriptions, patents , drawings or videos is another mater entirely.

I contacted Steve on the phone yesterday and spoke with him AT LENGTH. I wanted to replicate his switch, but I explained to him that I didn't think there was enough information on his page to do so, regardless of the fact that he has a materials list, a drawing and some other things, including a few videos.

He believes there IS enough information, but was willing to answer my inane questions. He also indicated that I am the first person in the last couple years to bother to contact him.

I told him I was willing to fly to Texas to view his working devices, but he wanted me to compensate him for his time, which I am not prepared to do at this time. I have things of my OWN in the works. I understand everyone has to make a living.

I believe that Steve has something here, and am going to do my best to replicate it if he will assist me by answering questions. He seems hesitant to give away certain information. He insisted we have all the information we need, but when I tried to pin him down on specifics, he told me that unless things were oriented properly it wouldn't work, and I would never see what I was looking for. I think by the end of our conversation I was frustrated and Steve was frustrated.

The point I attempted to make to him is that there is lots of information on his web site. TOO MUCH information and at different times he is talking about DIFFERENT devices he has made. It becomes very confusing. What I suggested was a step by step description of how to build the simplest device that will demonstrate the concepts he wants us to see. I did not make this offer to Steve, but I am making it now. I have a video camera I would be more than willing to send to him at my expense so that he can video the construction steps and process of such a device if he is willing to do that and share it. I would be happy to do that.

If Steve does indeed have a device that needs to be developed, I would love to get him in front of some folks I know who have money available for research and development. However, it is also MY reputation on the line here, so until I have been able to replicate a working device or have seen one working, I am hesitant to put the two together or even mention his work. These folks provide ME with resources for MY research, and I value their contributions and would not want to steer them wrong. Seeing is believing, and a video is not "seeing" especially since we still aren't sure from the existing videos exactly WHAT we are seeing.

Yes, we see devices that appear to work. But what do they DO? Do they produce energy? Steve says they get energy from magnets. If so, how much? Is it more than the motors that run them consume in the process of running them? I haven't seen any evidence of that in the videos. I sent Steve a PM a while back that indicated he needs to make specific written claims about what his device does, but I would carry that a step farther. I would say he needs to make specific written claims about the WORK his device does, how much, what kind, etc. Just saying it shows new information about the magnetic field is not enough. If you can't show how it does SOMETHING better than the status quo, you really have nothing that people are willing to invest their money into. And not just better, SIGNIFICANTLY better.

Steve, I hope this does not upset you, because I am really only trying to help.

Dave

[Energy-Ingenuity.com]

Wardforce

When I first came across his demonstration, I asked myself similar questions. I tried to the best of my ability to understand his explanation, (Mr. Ward's) didn't work for me either, I didn't let this stop me trying to comprehend what he was presenting though. I went on a patent search, and came up with one which gave a better explanation of the observed effect. This is when he first came to the forum. I brought this patent to his attention, and he left.

Here is a quote from:

5,191,258 - Electric Current Generator Including Torque Reducing Countermagnetic Field

"An alternating electric current generator comprises an armature rotatable carried by a drive shaft and positioned between stabilized, non-moving magnetic elements. The armature has first and second magnetic field transmitting sections with a magnetized section sandwiched there between. As electric load is applied to the generator, a counter magnetic field is generated through the armature to increase speed of the drive shaft and thereby lessen torque required to rotate the drive shaft."

I like this explanation better than the one that Mr. Ward has provided. In all honesty, and I mean no offense by this, I don't see how Mr. Ward was awarded a patent, when we look at the figure 2 from the patent I listed, and figure 4b from Mr. Wards patent, the images are "technically" one and the same...... ..... Fact is....the aforenamed patent is where I went to get a better understanding of whats happening. This principle is in my opinion also is related to the Kromrey device.

Comparison between the two patents...




Regards

I am glade that you found this patent, Jim was a great friend.

He is generating energy from one Pole to the other Pole. I generate energy from BOTH Poles and to BOTH Poles. Just so you know, this is not the only difference. How can you find something if you don't know what it is? How can I describe something that has never been seen, touched, or held without showing you something? Videos on YouTube. Steve Ward - YouTube

[Energy-Ingenuity.com]

What is a Patent?

I am a very simple guy. Some might say simple minded, which is a possibility. I understand CONCEPTUALLY what Gary is doing, just as I understand CONCEPTUALLY what Steve Ward is doing, but for ME to actually build a device THAT DOES ANY USEFUL WORK based on their descriptions, patents , drawings or videos is another mater entirely.

I contacted Steve on the phone yesterday and spoke with him AT LENGTH. I wanted to replicate his switch, but I explained to him that I didn't think there was enough information on his page to do so, regardless of the fact that he has a materials list, a drawing and some other things, including a few videos.

He believes there IS enough information, but was willing to answer my inane questions. He also indicated that I am the first person in the last couple years to bother to contact him.

I told him I was willing to fly to Texas to view his working devices, but he wanted me to compensate him for his time, which I am not prepared to do at this time. I have things of my OWN in the works. I understand everyone has to make a living.

I believe that Steve has something here, and am going to do my best to replicate it if he will assist me by answering questions. He seems hesitant to give away certain information. He insisted we have all the information we need, but when I tried to pin him down on specifics, he told me that unless things were oriented properly it wouldn't work, and I would never see what I was looking for. I think by the end of our conversation I was frustrated and Steve was frustrated.

The point I attempted to make to him is that there is lots of information on his web site. TOO MUCH information and at different times he is talking about DIFFERENT devices he has made. It becomes very confusing. What I suggested was a step by step description of how to build the simplest device that will demonstrate the concepts he wants us to see. I did not make this offer to Steve, but I am making it now. I have a video camera I would be more than willing to send to him at my expense so that he can video the construction steps and process of such a device if he is willing to do that and share it. I would be happy to do that.

If Steve does indeed have a device that needs to be developed, I would love to get him in front of some folks I know who have money available for research and development. However, it is also MY reputation on the line here, so until I have been able to replicate a working device or have seen one working, I am hesitant to put the two together or even mention his work. These folks provide ME with resources for MY research, and I value their contributions and would not want to steer them wrong. Seeing is believing, and a video is not "seeing" especially since we still aren't sure from the existing videos exactly WHAT we are seeing.

Yes, we see devices that appear to work. But what do they DO? Do they produce energy? Steve says they get energy from magnets. If so, how much? Is it more than the motors that run them consume in the process of running them? I haven't seen any evidence of that in the videos. I sent Steve a PM a while back that indicated he needs to make specific written claims about what his device does, but I would carry that a step farther. I would say he needs to make specific written claims about the WORK his device does, how much, what kind, etc. Just saying it shows new information about the magnetic field is not enough. If you can't show how it does SOMETHING better than the status quo, you really have nothing that people are willing to invest their money into. And not just better, SIGNIFICANTLY better.

Steve, I hope this does not upset you, because I am really only trying to help.

Dave

An US patent, which I paid for with my own money, makes "claims", tells how it is made, with what is being used... Has all the things you ask for.

Videos show much smaller devices, with more depth. I know it is poor video, but I am working alone, not by choice. No matter what anyone tells you, they do not issue an US patent on something that will not work, not in this day and age. How much more proof do you need?

US patent # 7531930
Conserve energy, clean energy from Magnet, reverse polarity
Steve Ward - YouTube

Energy from Magnets is big. But Wardforce, being part of the Magnetic Field that is not a Pole, now that is really big. What do you think all this is about? How can I describe something that has never been seen, touched, or held? You don't even know that it exists, and you are not looking for it, how can you find it?

[erfinder]

Mr. Ward

First I would like to thank you for replying about those patents, I figured you knew that person. After comparing the patents, it was clear to me, and this is my opinion, that he knew more about the effect than you do. In addition to this, his patent presents a more scientific explanation of the effect, one which can be supported by existing scientific literature. This is independent of the fact that you claim he is dealing with one pole and you are dealing with two poles. I don't agree with you on that for obvious reasons.

Now I don't claim to know how long you have been investigating, I will tell you that I have been investigating for a few years, much of this time has been devoted to finding demonstrable methods for extracting energy from magnets.

After I studied your friends patent, I started studying yours. You mentioned a device that you called a "magnetic base". In your videos you demonstrate this magnetic base, and also designed and constructed a few of your own. You failed to describe and or mention where the magnetic base came from. Well I found a source, shortly after studying your patent.

In 2005 Jack W. Hildenbrand filed for patent no.:

7,453,341 - System and Method for Utilizing Magnetic Energy

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=p.../US7453341.pdf

I am not claiming that Mr. Hildenbrand was the originator of this concept, however I am claiming that from his descriptions, he was a master of the effect that you have yet to adequately describe. With a proper understanding of this patent, one could do everything you are suggesting, and more, based on known principles.

A few years ago motors based on principles covered in this patent were being discussed on various forums. Several attempts were made at designing controllers for motors based on these principles, most of the controllers landed in the scrap bin owing to what I'm going to call "curiosities" associated with this design topology.


Regards

[citfta]

Magnetic machinist's base

Hi erfinder,

I am very familiar with the magnetic machinist's base Mr. Ward shows in some of his videos. As I understand from his videos he is calling the speeding up of the shaft under shorted conditions of the coil his Wardforce. I have posted a discussion of this effect in my thread for open discussion of projects on this forum. You can read about it here:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post243416

Please review my thoughts and feel free to add your own as I am interested in your ideas about what I have posted.

Respectfully, Carroll

[boguslaw]

Simple question : how BIG is the energy in magnet ???????? How we can talk about all this wardforce without estimating that simple fact ?

[shylo]

Field strenght

Hi All, like I've said ,"I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer".
But I believe the magnetic field is infinite, to the point of saturation.
That is if you use more than it is capable of providing ,it will quit.
Or should I say reverse, the spot between the two , that's what I'm looking for.
artv

[boguslaw]

shylo


Infinite energy makes infinite force, so no way. If you were right you would never squeese two magnets by opposing poles to the point they touch each other but we all know it's perfectly possible yet very hard with neo magnets

[shylo]

Field cancelation

Hi Boguslaw, by pressing 2 magnets together you can change the orientation, but can you cancel the field?
When you stop pressing them together ,they revert back to their original field.
Can you cancel a magnetic field, if so how?
I just keep getting more questions. I respect your opinion.
artv

[leo48]

The force:....Jedi Kitten with the Force - YouTube

Leo

[boguslaw]

shylo

You cannot do something important about something unknown. First you must be sure you understood what magnet is. Ok, you have very small chance to make something useful by accident, that's why among million experimentator there are few who got something working....

[shylo]

Magnetic field

That's exactly what I'm trying to understand.
From what I've seen the "equal and opposite" rule doesn't apply.
The field we create is stronger than the field that's created by collapse.
Maybe the best we can hope for, is a form of assist to rotation.
Still gotta find that spot between fields.
artv