Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share

[Turion]

Luc

Where has LUC gone. Last I heard we were going to get some accurate power measurements. Either that didn't turn out so well, or the disinformation boys got to LUC and we will hear no more. That's very, very disappointing.

Dave

[gotoluc]

@Mr. Alba, Thats a good setup. Nice work.

@ Luc I have been reading everything on measuring that load, but I realized I do not even know what math you are using in the tutorial. Did you, or Can you explain the exact process in your scope? I understand the hook up, and what formula I think should be used for apparent power, So I am just wondering what your using.
I am really confused on the IN/OUT part too.
Thanks
Matt

Hi Matt,

the problem with many reactive power circuits is non linear sine waves (out of proportion or harmonic bumps) if you have a Digital Oscilloscope, their math function can hake this into account much like a true RMS meter can look at the surface area of a sine wave. The other thing they can do is compare phase position between current and voltage which is needed to calculate real power.
From what I understand, the combination of these two functions is called "MEAN"
So if you have your scope math set for probe 1 to multiply (X) probe 2 the math Mean value (number) will be the real watts used.

This is much more accurately than a plug in watt meter can do because they need clean sine wave to give a real result. They also have limitation when phase shift get around 70 degrees or even worse when they get closer to 90 degrees. Phase shifts of 70 degrees or more is not a common situation for household appliances, so circuits of this kind must depend on a scope for accurate power calculations.

Hope this answers your questions

Luc

[gotoluc]

Where has LUC gone. Last I heard we were going to get some accurate power measurements. Either that didn't turn out so well, or the disinformation boys got to LUC and we will hear no more. That's very, very disappointing.

Dave

Hi Dave

I have re-tested everything with the scope on DC coupling and I now see no real advantages as when I was first testing with AC coupling. There is a big difference in results from AC to DC coupling as far as scope math is concerned.

It's also clear that a plug in meter cannot calculate a 90 degrees phase shift power correctly. So results using just that need to be questioned.

My generator tests, appeared very good but it looks like the problem there was a transfer of power from my gens exciter field to the load and which by coincidence had no effect on the prime mover.
So two different things happening which made the results look good but now look like are not a real power gain after all.

Maybe reactive power can be used to an advantage if you had a circuit which would use the return cap discharges (at 45 degree) and convert it to mechanical power (like I thought my generator did) or shore it in a battery. But none of this is happening if using single phase grid. A 90 degrees phase shift for the single phase grid is like a short circuit and the wires just heat up.

That's where things are at this time.

Luc

[Matthew Jones]

So your doubting any of this is even working?

I just wasn't sure how you were calculating in and out.

Matt

[SilverToGold]

Luc,

That's bad news.... but perhaps you can still put up a video showing what you are talking about so that we can learn more from what is not working. It would really help I believe and following you this far... I would like to see it through - even if the results are not what we were hoping for.

.

[gotoluc]

So your doubting any of this is even working?

I just wasn't sure how you were calculating in and out.

Matt

I'm now quite sure there is no advantage of using this off single phase grid or a permanent magnet AC gen.
However, maybe reactive power can be used to an advantage if you had a circuit which would use the return cap discharges happening at 45 degree. Maybe a battery could be charged?
But none of this is happening on single phase grid. A 90 degrees phase shift on single phase grid is like a short circuit and the wires just heat up. So the returned power is just wasted in heat.

That's all I've confirmed to this point

Luc

[gotoluc]

Luc,

That's bad news.... but perhaps you can still put up a video showing what you are talking about so that we can learn more from what is not working. It would really help I believe and following you this far... I would like to see it through - even if the results are not what we were hoping for.

.

I'll consider making a video demo

Luc

[RAMSET]

quite true about in the wall watt meters

Luc
Thanks for sharing your findings,I also had an anomoly go away .
I tried using a watt meter in line with an AC resistive load and a lousy Diode,
the measurements went all skewed after 30 watts [no other components just the Diode] ,the meter hung around 30 watts while my loads went higher and higher I was ecstatic Sigh....not a happy day
I believe I tested 4 different meters and they all had the same issue! one little Diode down wind messed it up [purely resistive load ]

Poynt and a few other fellows helped me figure that one out!

Thanks for all you do as well as the wonderful example you set for this community,

Chet K

[gotoluc]

Thanks for your post Chet

Luc

[Matthew Jones]

Hey LUC I can't speak for everyone but no matter what the results I found the whole thing a learning experience. If I were you I would push forward. Don't get obstructed because it didn't turn out the way you would expect.

Sooner or later one of us have got to run up on the secret of this MOGEN phenomena. If you just keep publishing what you have done at least then we have the fact as they generally set upon.

Cheers
Matt

[gotoluc]

Yes Matt, his was definitely a positive learning experience and has not stopped me.

I'm presently experimenting with gravity assist gen. If I find anything interesting I'll share as usual.

Luc

[barbosi]

Luc,

cos() takes values between -1 and +1 and that it's all I should not forget. The fact that the specialists tell that power factor (same thing) is between 0 and 1, is based on the assumption that is no capacitive load in our real life.

Measuring of power is insubstantial. Owning a battery or a solar system driving your own inverter to supply your loads has no need for an acurate measurement. Acurate measurement systems is to prevent theft, which is not the case - as you stated already.
As the saing goes, "the devil is in the details". And sadly, that killed your progress.

All one needs to know is: -1<cos()<1

Regards.

[Duncan]

Yes Matt, his was definitely a positive learning experience and has not stopped me.

I'm presently experimenting with gravity assist gen. If I find anything interesting I'll share as usual.

Luc

Gotoluc .. the question seems as simple as this to me .. can real work be done with KVAr ? Also known in old text books as magnetic current A'la Edward Leedskalnin and by some as telluric current freely avaliable from the ground.
I have little doubt that your set up is going COP>1 at resonance but its hard to define or measure.
Have a read through this
Capacitive Battery Charger - John Saves Energy

like you the guy is aiming for resonance and using difficult power factor metering to try and achieve it. However as you read realise that huge banks of batteries are being charged very quickly with what must be reactive current. After all that's the very definition of being fed via a capacitor , a 90 deg phase shift.
If batteries can be charged with reactive current I see no way it can avoid also being converted in your machine at resonance . I wouldn't be to dis heartened you are I'm sure just looking at a hiccup just take a big breath … and be back at it . best wishes Duncan

[gotoluc]

Gentlemen, thank you for your posts and trying to encourage me to stay at it.
I haven't stopped the research but you can be sure that before I share again, much more tests will be done as I don't enjoy bringing hopes up for nothing.

I know grid meters may not be able to bill for a low VAR values. This is not what my research is about. It's about reactive power effects on a generator working off the grid.

I've put aside my exciter field rotor Alternator for now as it's not the ideal test bed for this research as there are too many variable to consider in the exciter field coil and rotor.
I'm now using a 90vdc 2000rpm 2hp PM motor that I modified to an AC PM Alternator.
Once a reactive circuit is connected to this PM Alternators and is able to put out one watt or more without affecting its prime mover I will share the information.

Luc