Shocking news out of spain!!!

[aljhoa]

Viva Los Estados Unidos de Europa

Angela Merkel urges EU treaty change in first speech of new term - YouTube

Al

[aljhoa]

Are you saying that Spain is correct in taxing solar-energy collection in Spain?

Do you think that the US Govt has the ability to exert significant weather control (by HAARP or other means)-- or not?

you can´t have one without the other - YouTube

Al

[dward]

a Spanish problem ?? mind you dward
we are here (Spain) well aware of the Wall street determining influence in this crisis, and of the overwhelming pressure it exerts over our gov. (as well as the german banks).
do you think that the American gov. is free of the wall-street guidelines ??

Sure everybody is not American in this forum, but I must say that conspiracy stuff has nothing to do with paranoia, . . . what we are living here is crude reality.

cheers

Definitely not talking about those living in Spain. These energy forums are notorious for the conservative paranoid types. What I was referring to is this particular group of Americans and Canadians who just love to use every country as a backdrop for their paranoid fantasies. When people start posting things like "we are the government" or "Insert political philosophy quote here" posts you know they come from north america, and probably a rural part of north america. It irks me to no end.

As for Spain, I always thought your new infrastructure was quite impressive but i was always struck by how abandoned it all seemed, even before the crisis. Mind you I avoid that part of Europe in summer so perhaps It's all for the British summer season.

[Farmhand]

I believe the bankers and TPTB use different countries to set "precedents", and
if they are successful they apply the same tactic in other countries.

One example is the "trimming" of the bank accounts (stealing our money), I even
forget where they first did it, it was a small EU country or at least in Europe. When
they got away with it there they immediately began doing it or trying to do it in
other places like even here in Australia and I think New Zealand.

If this is allowed to happen in Spain it will happen or it will be tried to be
implemented in other places, in my opinion.

Cheers

[wayne.ct]

International Forum

In the age of the Internet, it is hard for me to believe that people can be uninformed about the global economy. Yet, I met someone the other day that had never been as much as 50 miles from where they were born. I don't think it is an excuse, but those who know better need to realize the need for education. Please, become educated on more than just "free energy" or whatever. I am happy to think that most people that belong to this forum understand the real dangers that powerful government heads impose on people longing for freedom from oppression. Who really wants to be a slave?

[Allcanadian]

@dward

Definitely not talking about those living in Spain. These energy forums are notorious for the conservative paranoid types. What I was referring to is this particular group of Americans and Canadians who just love to use every country as a backdrop for their paranoid fantasies. When people start posting things like "we are the government" or "Insert political philosophy quote here" posts you know they come from north america, and probably a rural part of north america. It irks me to no end.

I wouldn't call it a paranoid fantasy, to my knowledge the American brokers sold Spain a risky investment in the form of dirvatives which was supposed to reduce their interest payments. The market blipped and Spain got caught with their pants down, tragic but simple enough to understand.

Who bought the risky investments? - the spanish government, did they know all the risks involved? - maybe not, who should the people of Spain blame? - most likely the government because they signed the contracts, who gave the government the authority to sign the contracts - the people of Spain.

The fact remains that if a population elects people they do not trust or do not even bother to vote and refuse to get involved or speak up then I think we all know who to blame. What irks me to no end is people who call themselves responsible adults then refuse to take responsibility for their own actions or lack of it.

I think everything may unravel soon and everyone everywhere will be pointing their finger at everyone else. They will say why didn't someone do something to stop this despite the fact they did nothing and now it is too late, such is life.

AC

[GSM]

@dward

I think everything may unravel soon and everyone everywhere will be pointing their finger at everyone else. They will say why didn't someone do something to stop this despite the fact they did nothing and now it is too late, such is life.

AC

EXACTLY.

So come on guys and gals;
unless you get 'hands-on' NOW regarding energy, you also will be too late.

Nothing fancy - just magnets, iron cores and coils as did the successful early proponents.

[interdesign21]

I believe the bankers and TPTB use different countries to set "precedents", and
if they are successful they apply the same tactic in other countries.

One example is the "trimming" of the bank accounts (stealing our money), I even
forget where they first did it, it was a small EU country or at least in Europe. When
they got away with it there they immediately began doing it or trying to do it in
other places like even here in Australia and I think New Zealand.

If this is allowed to happen in Spain it will happen or it will be tried to be
implemented in other places, in my opinion.

Cheers

I agree 100% farmhand
The country you referred is a small island: Malta, which belongs to the EU.
We are being used as laboratory guinea pigs.
The public debt experiment had success in Portugal, Greece, Ireland and Spain, but failed in Iceland. But there is there a very small population, they got to send to trial the prime minister, and let the banks to broke.

[ray0.e]

tanks guys it make me happy to see that we rebels still have the same fire as allways

i will never stop doing wats necessary to bring the lost and stolen technology's to the people that need it the most for FREE becouse its this that de dont want us getting energy for FREE out of the 0 point

i go find my self some old satalite antennas and put some mirrors on it
plus a good solar taking device many times better than the stupit solar cells de can put them where the sun dont shine

good luck evryone wit your projects watever it is to bring down thr smoke screen and a happy new 2014!!!!!!

[dR-Green]

The fact remains that if a population elects people they do not trust or do not even bother to vote and refuse to get involved or speak up then I think we all know who to blame.

I must say I disagree with this. I have previously submitted a blank vote just to show it's not a matter of being "too lazy", but by the next time around I had come to the conclusion that they are well aware that people don't like it, and my blank vote is in fact a vote of compliance, I used their system to try and change their system which indicated that I agree and consent to the method of that system, so completely self-defeating.

Your participation is simply your consent, they are then perfectly free to act in your name regardless of which box you ticked, you have agreed to the method of the system itself, you have agreed to submit to the will of whoever gets into power even if you voted for the "opposition", you have empowered the system and showed your trust in its ability (to do something?), and you are allowing your "leaders" to act and speak on your behalf, therefore whatever ensues is entirely your personal responsibility, they are acting in your name, on your behalf. So I have withdrawn my consent completely, I don't even turn up to vote. I do not support the system or the method in any way whatsoever, so I will not even acknowledge it through turning up to use it. I am not empowering it and so I am completely guilt free when any politician (inevitably, as everyone already knows) does anything that the population doesn't like. I can safely say that I had nothing to do with it, I didn't even consent to or support the method through which they were brought into power to begin with. They are not acting on my behalf or in my name, I didn't give my consent or authorise them to do so. Request denied.

It doesn't matter if you choose black or white, the game is in play from the moment you start considering the options. There is only an illusion of choice. The house always wins.

[Farmhand]

I always vote for independents if they run, in Australia we more or less have a
two party monopoly just like the U.S.. It makes no difference which one gets in.

There is zero chance of an independent government, all parties are controlled
and run with the globalists agenda's. Basically there is no hope of good
governance anywhere at the present time. They all need to be sacked and the
parties declared as illegal gangs. They are all criminal or complicit in crimes.

If we choose not to vote in Australia we get fined or jailed, voting is compulsory,
which is a real kick in the nuts because we are forced to go to the booth and
vote even when we see no one that deserves voting for. If we vote invalid the
vote goes to the incumbent party so that is worse than voting for
independents that we don;t really want but will vote for them in the hope
that the major two parties get less influence in parliament and the senate.

It is rigged real good here.

You know the politicians are bad when a lady prime minister visits a school and a child throws a vegemite sandwich at her face. Good job youngster.

I say we should all follow the kids lead and fling muck at the A holes whenever they venture out in public.
Make their time in the public a bad experience rather than pander to them and
treat them as if they actually have power, they are our servants, they need
to be reminded of that every day. We all need to change how we treat them
and demand they serve us or quit.

The politicians the police and the armed forces are all servants of the people.

However they do not serve us well, the politicians play by their own rules and
give themselves pay rises and implement agenda's that degrade us and our
way of life, the armed forces are a tool for the globalists and the police are
revenue raisers and jackboots. The entire setup is so F'ed up it isn't even funny any more.

I'm thinking of emigrating to Cuba, would be a refreshing change. I might feel free there.

Cheers

P.S. Maybe I'll go to CHOGUM and hand out a few loaves of vegemite
sandwiches to the protesters to keep their strength up or do with as they see fit ,
I'm too old to wrestle with Cops but I can make a lot of sandwiches.

..

[jdodson]

There is only an illusion of choice. The house always wins.

Governance.

We will always have it. The house is made of us.
There will always be chosen people to represent a larger group of people.
Otherwise we would all have to vote everyday to make every governing decision.

What type of system do you think would be better than an election system?

The problem with governance is the possession of power, but you cant have one without the other.

When people start posting things like "we are the government"...you know they come from north america, and probably a rural part of north america. It irks me to no end.

Some people on this forum(not most mind you, but some) who are from places other than spain, automatically write as though it's their government doing it to them, in their place, which is not spain. OR that others here assume that everyone is an american and is from america. Odd.

This is clearly a spanish problem and therefore american political philosophy does not actually have any bearing on the situation.

Spain has an elected Senate and Congress which can pass laws and change their constitution. The people of spain are the government. Why exactly does that "irk" you?

[wayne.ct]

Who is to blame?

Those who won't blame those who will.
Those who don't act responsibly blame those who do.
Those who don't have blame those that do have.
Those who don't blame those who do.
Those who frown blame those who smile.
Those who lie blame those who tell the truth.
Those who are sad blame those who are happy.
Those who hate blame those who love.
Those who are ignorant blame those who learn.
The stupid blame the wise.
The powerless blame those with power.
The evil blame the good!
I often do, but I try to keep things straight and do right. I think it is going to take coordinated action. And, just sitting around waiting for things to change is not going to work.

[dR-Green]

Governance.

We will always have it. The house is made of us.

It depends how you look at it. Politicians are spawned from the same society as a whole as everyone else, but "politics" itself can be likened to a private club, or a business. Only those who are members/employees profit from it, everyone else is a "consumer" whose only participation is to use the services that are offered to them. The "house" is like a casino or a stock broker, they profit from any TRADE, buy or sell, it makes no difference to them whether the market goes up or down, the value of your stock is irrelevant, they make their money simply through other people playing the game (trading) through them, charging a fee for each trade. Their income is guaranteed and risk free, whereas the ones who play the game are subject to the market fluctuations and could easily lose everything.

In the same way it makes no difference whether you choose left or right, black or white, or this politician or that one, the outcome is irrelevant because the game is a fantasy, it's all set up so the ones who organised the game always win - they maintain their power and influence regardless of who wins the game because they are essentially above the game, they are not players within it. Politicians come and go, yet somehow the system itself always remains unchanged, they all work within a certain well established framework that apparently must not be acknowledged and certainly not changed.

Otherwise we would all have to vote everyday to make every governing decision.

I don't see why it needs to be so complicated. Decisions like what?

If people want to give up their personal freedom and responsibility for conducting their own lives in trade for the convenience of letting a small group of people make the decisions on everyone else's behalf then they have nothing to complain about when the small group makes a mess big enough to get the rest of the population caught up in it. Cause and effect. It's just a small experiment that will eventually be made extinct through evolution. Personally I'm intrigued to see just how big the mess will get before people realise how it works. Will they choose to step up to the task at hand, or will they call for another hero to come and save them from their own choices, and be plunged back into the mess once again?

[jdodson]

"politics" itself can be likened to a private club, or a business. Only those who are members/employees profit from it, everyone else is a "consumer" whose only participation is to use the services that are offered to them.

You have an interesting point of view.

I do agree that the political system is full of corruption which does make it a good analogy for a casino club. I don't think the system itself is at fault but rather the members of the club who are acting irresponsibly.

I don't know what system would be perfect, or even better, though.

I don't see why it needs to be so complicated. Decisions like what?

If people want to give up their personal freedom and responsibility for conducting their own lives in trade for the convenience of letting a small group of people make the decisions on everyone else's behalf then they have nothing to complain about when the small group makes a mess big enough to get the rest of the population caught up in it.

I think most people would say, that without any governance it would be like the wild wild west. There are a lot of governing decisions, financial aid and business regulations and taxation for public services are probably the biggest.

Not to mention laws change as public opinion changes over time.

I'm more of a "right wing conservative" and personally think the government should be vastly smaller. Although I do think a degree of governance is a good thing and will always be around, as long as there is civilization.

Personally, I would like to take money out of politics. Election campaigns are paid for by the biggest boosters which breeds corruption before anyone is even elected.