Self-induction

[Mario]

Steve, correct me if I'm wrong, I think your waveform derives from what would normally be the wave of a NSNS arrangement:



but since your coils are so close, the leaving of a magnet from one coil coincides withe the entering of the magnet to the next coil. Meaning the two half waves are over imposed, which is possible thanks to the alternating polarities. So in the end you get this:



regards,
Mario

[erfinder]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...scillation.wmv


Keep in mind...the same thing is taking place inside the motor.


Regards

[machinealive]

you know, it was late night when I answered the last question. I am happy with this

The "pothole" singular, at the wave peak, is fundamental and third, if there was two potholes it would be fundamental, 3rd, and 5th. If we add a few more we could start to make a very nice square wave.

But, lets look a little deeper at the coil with sideon ( I will call tesla style from now on, because this is the coil orientation for the toroid or drum). But I should not have said fundamental. There is more to it.

So, you are trying to build a rectangular/square function, from hamonics? the "single" tesla coil, is the fourier transform of the "rectangular function". And is also known as the Cardinal sine function, or sinc function.
You all should think about this, and read for yourself. I bet monsieur m could relate a lot of visuals to this, anyway, off topic, not trying to distract.
Sinc function - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Remember this is using one coil, tesla style, and its on a ring( with its properties), already geometrically placed, with a certain inherent phase relationships already automatically in place, maybe controllers not necessary, . What can I say, it's get me excited!.

All I ever wanted was Er, to try and understand that the rotating field, was more then "the rotating field". maybe it was useful.

Now my days off are done again, and all I did was cut wood and chase rabbits.

This is a really good thread, thanks again Steve for starting.

Machine

[barbosi]

What is clear to me is that between two adjacent coils there is a strong capacitive coupling. It is similar to Tesla's pancake bifilar coil where he declared his purpose was to cancel the self inductance.

When a magnet comes into the play, there is a complex interaction between fields. I am not surprised that two generated EMF look like they are colliding one with another. And yet there are not just two coils as in my simplified example. Each coil has two neighboring coils. All round, all coils are capacitively coupled.

I can see how all that will look as a complex resonator, where the speed of the magnets would factor in as timing mechanism and energy injection.

I need some time to see where I go from here...

[machinealive]

Hey guys

Er, Barbosi
I really wasn't trying to disrupt . I haven't even finished building my machine, only in my head. And when I said single coil, it was only relative to Er's double coil in antiparallel, I will have 4 on toroid.

That last video was excellent Er. I hope I didn't overstep. If I did I apologize.

Machine

[Mario]

Steve, do you get speeding up (g-field effect) if you short your air core gennys?

regards,
Mario

[erfinder]

Steve, do you get speeding up (g-field effect) if you short your air core gennys?

regards,
Mario

Hello Mario,

My G-field (type) device had a window motor style prime mover driving a six pole axial rotor (alternating polarity), the rotor was aluminium, owing to this material selection, the flux path was not locked down as is the way its suggested it should be done.


Regards

[Mario]

Thanks, like I told you when we talked I'm considering converting my muller type motor-generator to air cores. Back then (g-field/kromrey times) they didn't have neo magnets, and one of the big drawbacks of these type of pulse motor generators is the big drag the cores produce. This is why I was wondering if air cores still followed the same rules regarding the "kromrey effect" or however one wants to call it. Of course air cores have way less inductance, but to compensate I could use very strong 3 or 4 cm diameter neos in my rotor…with zero core drag for the rotor and generator side.

regards,
Mario

[erfinder]

Thanks, like I told you when we talked I'm considering converting my muller type motor-generator to air cores. Back then (g-field/kromrey times) they didn't have neo magnets, and one of the big drawbacks of these type of pulse motor generators is the big drag the cores produce. This is why I was wondering if air cores still followed the same rules regarding the "kromrey effect" or however one wants to call it. Of course air cores have way less inductance, but to compensate I could use very strong 3 or 4 cm diameter neos in my rotor…with zero core drag for the rotor and generator side.

regards,
Mario

If what I mentioned in my post regarding my trials are accurate, then anyone should be able to get the acceleration effect in a standard axial generator which is properly configured using low inductance coils with cores.....? Eventually I'll build a larger one, its not really a priority right now. My first model works, and a larger one should deliver the exact same results if I keep things configured like in the first machine.

I didn't really find cogging to be an issue, probably because my rotor had some mass.


Regards
Steve

[Mario]

Steve, yes with a flywheel or precessional setup you eliminate cogging, but not the braking effect, major losses, also in the motor part because of this. This is why the window motor is clever.. no braking because of air cores, but still torque.

regards,
Mario

[Turion]

Acceleration under load???

I have built several different motor/generator devices that accelerate when the coil is shorted....but not ALL of those would accelerate when a resistive load was applied, and some of THOSE would not speed up when an inductive load was applied. Be careful you do not fool yourself.

Keep up the good work guys. We're all watching!

[Duncan]

Hi Duncan

I am way behind on threads at the moment and this Post 73 is as far as I am here.

Yes TPTB want everything longitudinal for themselves, and you made me remember these words penned by 'The Father' of all electric (HV), magnetic, electromagnetically radiated and resonant technologies himself - Nikola Tesla - way back in 1919 -

"The Hertz wave theory of wireless transmission may be kept up for some while, but I do not hesitate to say that in a short time it will be recognised as one of the most remarkable and inexplicable aberrations of the scientific mind which has ever been recorded in history."

Am I so stupid that I find the hard-to-follow posts here in this thread as if a meaningless double-talk, for nothing of consequence has clicked so far ?

Cheers ............ Graham.

to much smoke for me too !
"If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured, or far away."


Henry David Thoreau

sorry Graham I am also a little tardy on posts too, windings to wind

[Allcanadian]

@erfinder

The lack of a magnetic circuit, and the the low inductance of the coils yielding the acceleration effect leads me to believe that the effect is completely misunderstood. I don't claim to comprehend it, but now know for myself that the information that can be found on it and related typologies should be carefully scrutinized.

I believe the effect is relatively simple and may relate to an experiment I did a long time ago. Now image we hooked up an electromagnet to a battery with a switch to turn the power on and off. We know the electromagnet will only attract a piece of iron when we turn the switch on. However what if we only wanted the switch on for 1 second but wanted the electromagnet to work for 8 seconds?. How would we do it?

Could we place a capacitor in parallel and store the energy?. We could but the capacitor discharges very fast and would last only a second or so. My solution was simple, I placed a small DC motor in series with the electromagnet to store energy and limit current with a blocking diode in parallel. When the switch was opened the DC motor acted as a generator in series with the electromagnet and the electromagnet would slowly lose power over an 8 second period until I pulsed the DC motor/electromagnet again.

When we short a coil it can act just like the DC motor or to be more precise just like the one turn winding on the rotor bars of an induction motor. The current continues to flow in the shorted coil holding the field slightly longer producing a force slightly longer.

I did my series DC motor experiment because I wanted to see this effect in slow motion for myself and it is a neat experiment because the circuit acts just like an extremely large shorted inductance should.

AC

[Mario]

You know, that could actually be an explanation. You placed a motor in series, but I think you could have blocked the field collapse at switch opening with the diode directly across the coil to delay the collapse.

Think of a simple bedini solid state circuit. We charge an electromagnet with a battery. At turn off the coil doesn't allow for current reversal, so the current cannot stop, the coil now becomes the source and we get the "flyback" negative pulse. But current is still in the same direction.
Ok, so we pulse the coil and if we watch the collapse on a scope we notice that depending on the load in the recovery circuit the collapse time varies. If we put a 12V battery on the output we'll have what we normally see on a bedini circuit. If we leave the recovery circuit open the collapse is very fast and it produces a very high voltage, no current. If instead we short it (trough a diode) we have the opposite, very low voltage, but quite some current and very slow magnetic field collapse. This current keeps the magnetic field from collapsing so fast.

So maybe the kromrey effect is basically the same process, but now we charge the coil with a passing magnet:

the magnet approaches the core and charges it. If the load resistance is low enough the magnetic charge in the core can not collapse as fast as the speed of the leaving magnet would like.
Meaning the current flowing through the load at magnet approach cannot change direction fast enough and keeps flowing in that direction for a while pushing the magnet away.
This is just speculation, but if this is the case I think that using squared magnets instead of round ones would be better because the core charge and discharge would be more abrupt. The change has to be fast.

regards,
Mario

[garrypm]

Hey Mario.

Strange you make the comment re: square magnets.

This is magnacoasters comment to Igor (mopozco) re Igor's shot at magnacoaster --

"maybe what you can do is setup to show no movment ? also the iron core will shatter that is why we do not use it ! also the transistor you used will cause you problems when it shorts out it will burn up battery as well. the 2 coils are not needed in the right setup and if you get it right you need to use square magnets as rounds have less power."

Cheers, Garry