Self-induction

[erfinder]

Hi Steve,

thank you for the videos and explanations. Since I have a little and ready SG laying around I couldn't help trying what you show, even if it's all N out. This little model has an adjustable hall trigger, so I could easily switch between O crossing and peak crossing.
I put a 3300 uF buffer cap between supply and SG (with diode before the cap) and when I got to 0 crossing and disconnected the hall I did see the buffer going from about 14.5V to 20V, the supply was at 15V.

I think I know what is happening. When we switch to 0 crossing (max speed) the generated voltage goes above the supply. When we turn off the hall the coils with flywheel effect are still generating and are powering the recovery buffer (your lamp), AND the supply buffer, but this through the FET reverse diode! It is actually the only way the supply buffer could charge back from the coil. This could not happen with a transistor I believe. And it can only happen with coils that generate a high enough voltage.
In fact it just so happened that I had only the coils mounted which I normally use as genny coils which produce higher potential than my motor coils, and I did use them as motor coils.

Steve, this may still be something and I may be missing something…

regards,
Mario

So...you got the effect with an SG which had an all north pole rotor? That's interesting because I never could get an all north rotor to do this, even with the coils connected like I have them, and even with a Mosfet as the switch. I have built several pulse motors and ran them the standard way, so that they are basically brushless DC motors, and none of them ever charged the supply back.

I hope something is here....


Regards
Steve

[Mario]

So...you got the effect with an SG which had an all north pole rotor?

Yes, I wanted to test your setup (even if all N), but there was also a bell ringing in my head. A few months ago I was working on a muller motor setup and I was trying different coils with different size wire. I noticed that with the coils with many turns, from a certain speed up, the motor would limit itself because of back-charging to the supply. I then realised that it was because of the reverse diode of the Fets which allowed reverse flow from the coil to the supply.
Like I said, maybe it's a coincidence and your NSNS arrangement does something I can't see with my all N rotor. John must have a reason for using a NS arrangement in his magneto?

regards,
Mario

[erfinder]

Yes, I wanted to test your setup (even if all N), but there was also a bell ringing in my head. A few months ago I was working on a muller motor setup and I was trying different coils with different size wire. I noticed that with the coils with many turns, from a certain speed up, the motor would limit itself because of back-charging to the supply. I then realised that it was because of the reverse diode of the Fets which allowed reverse flow from the coil to the supply.
Like I said, maybe it's a coincidence and your NSNS arrangement does something I can't see with my all N rotor. John must have a reason for using a NS arrangement in his magneto?

regards,
Mario

Well....if its found that this is nothing, at the very least we know how to use the diode in the mosfet.


Regards
Steve

[barbosi]

Just for the clarity and making sure we are all on the same page can you confirm the block diagram?

[machinealive]

Just to make sure we are on same. Sorry, but I've never spent much time with the Bendini, but I was wondering if your setup is based on Bendini, or the Adams motor, or do you feel the are basically the same?

So at the pulse, what is your goal? I'm just trying to make sure I understand. When the magnet is at, say tdc, and you pulse, what is your model you have in your head? Just a simple concept, I understand, it's just a model, an opinion, I'm just very curious, maybe Tesla's setup can be of help..

I was going to ask for a schematic, to make sure I had that right, Barbosi beat me to it, .

Machine

[erfinder]

Now we are on the same page.


Regards

[Mario]

Steve, don't be discouraged man. The reason you have not seen the back-charge on your previous or all N setups may be that you didn't have enough turns on your coils, or that your coils were connected in parallel instead of series and didn't get close to the supply voltage. If you put a diode in the negative line pointing from FET source to supply buffer negative, the back-charge effect should go away if I'm right about the reverse FET diode.

Your setup might still do something different in the magnetics. The best thing to test this is to let it run for a long while off of a good battery and see if she stays charged or even charges up. Even if it turns out that the battery drops, we still learned something. I welcome everything and thank you for that

regards,
Mario

[erfinder]

I was going to ask for a schematic, to make sure I had that right, Barbosi beat me to it, .

Machine

We can talk hours about whats going on in a schematic, and everyone will have a different take on it. I've posted a basic schematic, I doubt that it will make things any clearer, in fact, it just may further confuse the issue. The point is where are you in the wave when you switch, and not so much what circuit are you using to switch.


Regards

[erfinder]

Steve, don't be discouraged man. The reason you have not seen the back-charge on your previous or all N setups may be that you didn't have enough turns on your coils, or that your coils were connected in parallel instead of series and didn't get close to the supply voltage. If you put a diode in the negative line pointing from FET source to supply buffer negative, the back-charge effect should go away if I'm right about the reverse FET diode.

Your setup might still do something different in the magnetics. The best thing to test this is to let it run for a long while off of a good battery and see if she stays charged or even charges up. Even if it turns out that the battery drops, we still learned something. I welcome everything and thank you for that

regards,
Mario

Thanks for the advice Mario, I'll begin looking into your suggestions.


Regards
Steve

[machinealive]

Hi Er
Like Mario said, don't get down, if you are, I doubt you are.

So, I also thought the two motors were basically the same setup, but johns, at least the ones we get to see, is still different, looking.
In the Adams motor coils have iron cores, and I thought rotor magnet should be larger ( 4xsize) of stator cores . I am just curious, why the builds look so different from Adams but it's obvious they are based on same setup. Not commenting on yours, I mean Bendini's and Adams.

In terms of goal, all I meant was electrically. What voltage/current setup are we trying to get at moment of pulse, if this is something you want to discuss? You mentioned the corners, etc, just wondering how you are working this.
I asked, because I wanted to really understand if this is Adams setup, as I thought I understand that better.

And yes I am sure this is all Tesla ingenuity, but I know you don't care for the rotating field, and all I meant was maybe I can show that it maybe be more related then it looks at first. But I wondered what your theory is, so I would know if I could relate the two.

Er, nice work on your motors by the way, they are very nicely built, I really liked your adjustable hall sensor, that is a good idea. Did you drill and machine all that stuff yourself?

Actually all I needed was the block diagram, Barbosi posted, but now that I see yours, you realize, if you placed another diode on the positive side of coil, you would have the setup UFO showed at his initial posts, on radiant, and I am definitely not trying to start a discussion on radiant, just an observation.

Machine

[boguslaw]

It's nice to see you are trying to recover collapsing magnetic field energy I feel however that you took the wrong path....are you really need that energy to light lamp ? Think about it...

[erfinder]

It's nice to see you are trying to recover collapsing magnetic field energy I feel however that you took the wrong path....are you really need that energy to light lamp ? Think about it...

Thanks.....I'll think about it...

Regards

[barbosi]

IMHO, the point is not the switching method, one can use even a reed switch if wishes or full bridge IGBTs.

It is rather the phiscal position of the coils (close one to another) and the topology of conection. I am able to see the point here because I just published few days ago in my thread a similar situation stating (Post #3):

the field is rather strengthening, same or similar effect being observed in so called “super magnets” by John Bedini (when two similar poles of two magnets are pressed against each other).

If the coils were farther away one from another... your judgement...

Regards.

[erfinder]

IMHO, the point is not the switching method, one can use even a reed switch if wishes or full bridge IGBTs.

It is rather the phiscal position of the coils (close one to another) and the topology of conection. I am able to see the point here because I just published few days ago in my thread a similar situation stating (Post #3):


If the coils were farther away one from another... your judgement...

Regards.

Regards

[barbosi]

In addition, in this case, the magnetic field IS ROTATING.
LOL, the magnets with their own magnetic field mounted on the rotating shaft, change the relative position to the coils in time.

What happens when those fields meet the junction of the coils is what interest me most. And then I can judge the opportunity of switching (in term of "when"). Edit: What I mean, pole in vicinity of a superpole...