Self-induction

[Mario]

Steve,

please keep investigating with this coil arrangement, who knows what you'll find. Don't let what I've found be in your way, you know how many disappointments I've been trough?!

Btw, the peak or junction TDC is something important, from what I've seen, even though it's not for max speed it's the most efficient place to switch. Once, instead of having a rotor with magnets, I've put another coil on top of the power coil. The top coil had a cap for resonance. When I tuned to motor coil for resonance, the signal was basically the same as the one you see with the peak TDC in a rotored version. I fact even on the rotored version it's the place where you'll find lowest current draw and I've always thought of the SG (or similar) run this way as a mechanical resonant oscillator.

keep up the good work!

regards,
Mario

[machinealive]

I have one question.

At the moment the magnet is at tdc, you switch on/ off as quick as possible.(maybe that is not even correct, but I would think that), my question is, at that nanosecond you switch, what would be the ideal voltage and ideal current amplitude and phase, you want at the coil.

Machine

[erfinder]

Steve,

please keep investigating with this coil arrangement, who knows what you'll find. Don't let what I've found be in your way, you know how many disappointments I've been trough?!

Btw, the peak or junction TDC is something important, from what I've seen, even though it's not for max speed it's the most efficient place to switch. Once, instead of having a rotor with magnets, I've put another coil on top of the power coil. The top coil had a cap for resonance. When I tuned to motor coil for resonance, the signal was basically the same as the one you see with the peak TDC in a rotored version. I fact even on the rotored version it's the place where you'll find lowest current draw and I've always thought of the SG (or similar) run this way as a mechanical resonant oscillator.

keep up the good work!

regards,
Mario

Thanks for your kind words Mario, I wish I could lay it all out on the table, its not as easy as I thought it would be. Here I must tip my hat to all of those bold souls among you who have started threads and share freely with others, those ideas which are nearest and dearest to you. There is more going on here than I am able to articulate. In time maybe, I will be in a better position to express these things, and demonstrate them.


Regards

[erfinder]

I have one question.

At the moment the magnet is at tdc, you switch on/ off as quick as possible.(maybe that is not even correct, but I would think that), my question is, at that nanosecond you switch, what would be the ideal voltage and ideal current amplitude and phase, you want at the coil.

Machine

Which TDC are you referring to and more importantly, when are you referring to it?


Regards

[machinealive]

Sorry Er
Thats another difference from Adams motor. I really wanted the one at coil centre, zero crossing, but I would like to know at both points too. I meant the location when you switch. Isn't your magnet pointing at centre of stator coil, at switch time, for zero crossing?

And then you pulse coil?what is v and I amplitude and phase relationship you want at the moment you switch?

[Mario]

Machinealive, watch Steve's video's. He explains the two TCD's and also V and I.

regards,
Mario

[machinealive]

@mario
Steve shows the scope trace but that is only voltage. In my tesla setup, that I'm slowly working to finish, it is pure induction, (ie I know my phase relationship at my coil,) , at zero crossing, the volts are zero, ok, but you've got caps and coils, so what is your phase you want and is that what you have? I'm hoping that me and Steve have always been in phase, , and we are looking for same effect. If not I won't keep posting.

[erfinder]

@mario
Steve shows the scope trace but that is only voltage. In my tesla setup, that I'm slowly working to finish, it is pure induction, (ie I know my phase relationship at my coil,) , at zero crossing, the volts are zero, ok, but you've got caps and coils, so what is your phase you want and is that what you have? I'm hoping that me and Steve have always been in phase, , and we are looking for same effect. If not I won't keep posting.

Don't stop posting machinealive.

Regards

[Matthew Jones]

I just read a lot of stuff and I know the thread was not supposed to move in any given direction but I like clarity sometimes. So I wanted to lay out at what point the discussion is centering on, and do it in a simple format. IE Low jargon...

You are looking to charge the source cap, C1 (Buffer I think you called it) at the same time you charge the Charge Cap C2? So C1 has to be above 60 volt I would guess?
At the same time the RPMS have to be up and the motor timing changed to reflect the slowdown period or hall sensor disconnect period? Is that correct?

That just the questions I needed answered to keep up. I'm feeble minded right now...

The more important question is why are you using a low side switch with that configuration of a motor? Seems to me, and If I were building it out.. I would start with at minimum a half bridge but most likely a full bridge driver with rectified recovery or better known here as a Bedini Cole Bipolar switch?
The reason being is the change in magnetic polarity and that is if your driving on both polarity that at some point you have a negative transient showing up but you have no mechanism in your circuit to relieve it from the system. This will, surprisingly enough, cause a load on C1 as this power want to travel first to the opposite polarity and not into the negative side of C2 to be stored where resistance is present.

You might be seeing this NOT HAPPENING when the hall is disconnected.

But I am just looking at the picture...

Matt

PS I spent my 2000's post on you. I hope it becomes worth my time. LOL

[Matthew Jones]

If I am all wrong about this I apologize for taking the space.

The more I look at this setup the more I see the negative transient (NT).
This motor must be a pusher, but thats a guess. You use that open coil to push from The center (Depending on the timing) of the coil to edge. Then you shut it off until everything gets into position again, refire ect, ect...

So my Delima comes in on the coils that are wound south polarity. 3 of them I am guessing??.
The circuit will relieve the positive transient (PT) and place it into C2 because the correctly placed diode to relieve it and the power is flowing in the correct direction to create a North Feild which in turn collapses into a PT.
But if the coil is wound to make a South Feild it will collapse into an NT which will attempt to exit the coil back to the source power or out of the entrance of the coil.
You may not see the NT on the scope as you are looking at C1 and source voltage. Then again this NT causes a load on C1. And this shows up in difference when you unhook the hall sensor.
To correct this you need a separate circuit for the South coils and at that point you have to either flip C1 in orientation to South Coil or unhook the south coil and reverse its orientation to C1. At both times C2 remains in the same place.
You need a computer!! And few more switch's.

This will cause C1 and C2 ground to LOWER its potential from the NT instead loading C1 positive and burning power.

Thats if I got it right in my head. Maybe I just waisted more space.

Matt

I have seen this very circuit work already.

[Mario]

Hi Matt,

As far as I know Steve is pulsing only 3 times per rotation, meaning when the coils, be it N or S oriented, have an opposing magnet in front of them to be pushed away. So the collapse spike is always in the same polarity in the wire.

regards,
Mario

[Mario]

Don't stop posting machinealive. You are asking excellent questions, tough questions, questions that force me to be more than just mindful when considering a response. The difficulty I am having is the relation that your questions have to your machine at this early stage in our exchange. I cannot apply what I am saying to your machine, and you shouldn't want to apply it till the community has come together and made sense of whats being shared. I'm sure you can see that opinions at this point are divided, and for good reason.

Barbosi is awesome as he has just pointed (offline) to one of the key problems, language. I have never been any good at communicating anyway, just review my history on the forum. I am sharing my ideas and opinions in a completely non scientific manner, and its difficult if not impossible for some of the more "well grounded" researchers here to see the possible significance of certain things that have been mentioned. This will remedy itself in time, I'm sure.

I cannot tell you what current and voltage is needed at TDC. In my opinion systems "should" self regulate towards zero consumption. Its been my experience that such values don't exist anyway, numbers would be different for each device.

Something is happening at the zero crossing that I have only been able to appreciate with my orthogonal design. Something that I have only been able to detect with properly configured coil configurations. This isn't new to the big names on these forums, I believe they know about this whatever it is that manifests in these monopole, and or focused field configurations, when switching takes place at the zero crossing, when rate of change and duty govern current draw.

What is implied by the reference to the switch closing? Whats taking place when the switch is closed? First thing that rang like a gong in my mind when I first contemplated the question can be summed up in a single word.

Opposition.

I think we are all looking for something, whether we are all looking for the same thing remains to be seen. I guess we will know when we find it.....


Regards

Hi Steve, What you call language problem, we all have our own way of expressing how we see things…
Keep going with your presentation and sharing your ideas, I'm very interested. What you said about switch closure has always been one of the most basic and important examples to go back to, in my mind at least. It's what got Tesla going… "when the operator closed the switch…"
A very short impulse to a coil, possibly turned off before waisting any current from the dipole and capturing the "opposition" energy that nature puts in to compensate.
Ok, we're on the same page about that. How does the Henry and Farad you mentioned fit in?

regards,
Mario

[erfinder]

Hi Matt,

As far as I know Steve is pulsing only 3 times per rotation, meaning when the coils, be it N or S oriented, have an opposing magnet in front of them to be pushed away. So the collapse spike is always in the same polarity in the wire.

regards,
Mario

I am pulsing three times per revolution.


Regards

[Matthew Jones]

Maybe I am missing something here then. All you coils fire a North Field Inward Towards the rotor? The coils do not alternate between north and south?

Matt

[erfinder]

Maybe I am missing something here then. All you coils fire a North Field Inward Towards the rotor? The coils do not alternate between north and south?

Matt

The poles alternate, but they are always the same each time..each time I fire i setup 3 Norths and 3 Souths. Always at the same location.

Edit.

each time the rotor comes around, the coils are fired at the exact same position each time. Polarity of the coils doesn't change.

Regards