HHO Gas Injected Into A Catalytic Converter Yields Extreme Heat! LENR? We Don't Know

[jdcproducts]

Will this work for the HHO?

21 Plate HHO Hydrogen Generator SEALED Dry Cell Kit Watch Video | eBay

Thanks!

-Altrez

Should work just fine. HHO cells are just stacks of stainless plates separated by rubber gaskets. Very low tech. That 21 plate cell should peak out at around 2 lpm roughly 400 watts stable. Looks like his output number is a little high but you will find most everyone selling hho devices will embellish the output rating.

[rosehillworks]

I just want to say thank you for what you have shared !
I am glad to see you're holding your ground keep up the good work

[Groundloop]

I really can't say for sure without looking at the hho unit. The mason jars with a spiral of wire is about the only design that will not produce much gas. Usually any type of brick cell will be able to handle 50-100 watts easy. Got a picture, link, or video of the cell?

It has been difficult getting manufacturer information on the type and amount of catalyst noble metals (platinum and palladium). I didn't check where your from but around here we can get them out of the junk yard. Don't hard earned spend money on something if you don't have to.

If you are looking to buy something brand new stick with well known name brands and when it comes to the precious metals, realize the cheaper models will probably not have as much of the noble metals as a more expensive one.

@jdcproducts,

Thank you for taking time to answer me. The unit is marked with:
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/
but that link is not working. Attached is a image of the unit.



GL.

[jdcproducts]

@jdcproducts,

Thank you for taking time to answer me. The unit is marked with:
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/
but that link is not working. Attached is a image of the unit.



GL.

That is what we would call a wet cell. Its still difficult to say much about output because I don't now the amount and size of the reactive surface inside. I can tell you that is not a producer in terms of gas output and efficiency. Guessing, I would say that will produce roughly 1/8 - .5 liters per minute of gas stable. 12 volts dc at 5-10 amps. You try to push it much over 10 amps and you may see some over heating. Should produce enough gas to experiment with the effect but if you decide to scale up the work, you may want to invest in a larger cell that can handle more power.

[Groundloop]

That is what we would call a wet cell. Its still difficult to say much about output because I don't now the amount and size of the reactive surface inside. I can tell you that is not a producer in terms of gas output and efficiency. Guessing, I would say that will produce roughly 1/8 - .5 liters per minute of gas stable. 12 volts dc at 5-10 amps. You try to push it much over 10 amps and you may see some over heating. Should produce enough gas to experiment with the effect but if you decide to scale up the work, you may want to invest in a larger cell that can handle more power.

@jdcproducts,

The unit has 20 plates (two and two close together) each plate has a
area of 15cm x 7cm.

Thanks,
GL.

[jdcproducts]

@jdcproducts,

The unit has 20 plates (two and two close together) each plate has a
area of 15cm x 7cm.

Thanks,
GL.

I would still hold it steady at around 10 amps or just over 100 watts of power. Anytime you are unsure about power handling of a hho cell. Start by running it at low current levels of 2-5 amps using a very weak electrolyte solution. Let it run for 10-20 minutes. If your temperature stays below 37C add a bit more electrolyte so the cells pulls a little more current. Increment about 2-5 amps each time and let it run for a while. As the cell runs the current and heat output will increase. Your peak temperature should be no more than 54C. If you go much beyond that, the structural integrity of the pvc housing may suffer and you may go into thermal runaway as the device will be nothing more than a water boiler. Again, you don't have the top of the line as far as hho cells go but you should be able to experiment with 100 watt or less output ranges.

[jdcproducts]

Catalytic Heating Links Of Interest

I found it interesting to study the catalytic action in general and look at what is commercially available. The heat produced is in the wavelengths useful for heating objects.
This "Platinum Cat" heater was tested with hydrogen in the 1990's http://ventedcatheater.com/6.html
1990's article ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/e...s/34/34p26.txt
Industrial use http://www.bruestcatalyticheaters.co...ic-Heaters.pdf

"The thermal efficiency
of a catalytic heater is
substantially higher than a
conventional heater."

This was posted by a member at the OU.com forums. No information on an on demand hho catalytic heater yet but the information in the links should give you a better understanding of catalytic heating and should get you excited about the possibilities of using HHO in this process.

[Beamgate]

Guys,

I can't help but wonder (in an effort to promote safety and more experimental options) if, for this phase of investigation, a wet-cell might be beneficial!

Especially one constructed to separate the H from the O (contra brown's gas) via a double-walled reactor (extracting the H from cathode cavity with fair isolation).

Then, the H could be the primary (control) source for the catalytic reaction. In this way 'ambient air vs pure generated O' might be more easily evaluated for self-ignition/flashback potential and control.

With separate H and O exhaust ports from the reactor:

• the generated gas may be re-constituted with simple fittings back to Brown's gas, or
• metering of the flow rates of the two gases individually as desired, or
• examine post-catalysis water production for 'ambient vs O' ratios
• likely more

No telling WHAT might be discovered!
Might not even need or want the O side.

[woopy]

Hi all

Going on my testing on this experiment , i have tested to inject the HHO directly on the substrate powder that i got on my bench after the drilling of the substrate carrots of my previuos tests.

CAT to LENR approach 5 wmv - YouTube


The idea was to see if for instance, to avoid the flashback issue , we could perhaps mix the powdered substrate with sand or glue it on stainless steel mesh or tubing , so we could enlarge the HHO flux and improve the efficiency.
So basically this powder seems to work very well, and is so cheap to get as the old car cat, so out of the shelf.

Just a test

Hope this helps

Laurent

[RAMSET]

I also did a bit of resistive heater testing on a small Manifold .

with 200 watts input
I could not get the outside temp of the small uninsulated manifold over 410 F in 67 F ambient .[played inside a very quick test]

I would say that looks good for Justin ,Tomorrow I will do more testing
to try and establish some sort of control [and post some pics]

@Justin
If you could post some dimensoins for your CaT I would greatly appreciate it [and pipe size inlet /
outlet for a mockup over here.

@Woopy
fabulous news indeed!

thx
Chet

[Gdez]

cells

@ beamgate,
After looking at my old 7 plate cell, I've decided it would be better to build a new one. I would be interested in building a cell to separate h&o if you have any links.
I have seen some stuff on the forums already about this, but I can't remember the thread(s).
Thanks ,
Greg
@ woopy-- good ideas

[altrez]

Guys,

I can't help but wonder (in an effort to promote safety and more experimental options) if, for this phase of investigation, a wet-cell might be beneficial!

Especially one constructed to separate the H from the O (contra brown's gas) via a double-walled reactor (extracting the H from cathode cavity with fair isolation).

Then, the H could be the primary (control) source for the catalytic reaction. In this way 'ambient air vs pure generated O' might be more easily evaluated for self-ignition/flashback potential and control.

With separate H and O exhaust ports from the reactor:

• the generated gas may be re-constituted with simple fittings back to Brown's gas, or
• metering of the flow rates of the two gases individually as desired, or
• examine post-catalysis water production for 'ambient vs O' ratios
• likely more

No telling WHAT might be discovered!
Might not even need or want the O side.

After reading all I could about whats taking place. It would seem that HHO is the best solution for a closed reactor. You HAVE to have oxygen for this to work.

If you try it with a closed system with just Hydrogen once all the O2 is gone the reaction will stop. I have not verified this but that's what the 60 plus year old understanding of this reaction seems to confirm.



-Altrez

[Beamgate]

@ beamgate,
After looking at my old 7 plate cell, I've decided it would be better to build a new one. I would be interested in building a cell to separate h&o if you have any links.
I have seen some stuff on the forums already about this, but I can't remember the thread(s)

@Gdez,
This is the one that got me thinking about flexibility at this phase:
Compact Hydroxenator Hydrogen & Oxygen Separator cell Update! - YouTube


@Altrez,
These two previous references from @jdcproducts got me thinking about vented (not closed) catalyst systems based (if I interpreted the material correctly) on Hydrogen and the classic ambient air flow as the reaction source(s):

http://ventedcatheater.com/6.html
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/e...s/34/34p26.txt (this conversion attempt uses the same ambient air source as in the NG or Propane)

Thinking out loud, I'm theorizing that an 'updraft' sort of ambient air flow (thru the cat) might behave more predictably than having a pure O mixed in there with the H (to minimize the probability of a flame runaway should the catalyst surface get too hot near the injection zone?). Perhaps the reaction can be better controlled if the Ox-rate were metered and injected from a side port?

Anyway, just experimental considerations thrown out there.
We need a solution that's predictable and safe!

[Shellshocked]

Hi Guys.

@jdcproducts: Brilliant.

A low-energy way to use water as a fuel to produce heat, pure water and hydrogen.
It can be made from common parts, used to clean it's own non-consumable catalyst and the hydroxy part can probably be used as a welder.

Pretty much the ultimate dream.

Since the videos show the catalyst glowing at up to 900F, all the following is fairly moot, but I thought I'd bring it to your attention as I think it backs up your efforts.

From my hazy memories of school organic chemistry in the 80's I recall that if you wanted to hasten pretty much any reaction you used a platinum catalyst - and in a hydrogen atmosphere if you wanted it faster still.
The hydrogen and catalyst where the common energy producing factors.

May I draw your attention to the studies conducted by well-respected scientist Irving Langmuir for General Electric around 1910-1927.

Langmuir investigated metals in gasses, perfected filament lightbulbs and invented atomic hydrogen arc welding, a very effective welding system.

While he concentrated mostly on monatomic hydrogen, produced by electrically decomposed H2, he noted the huge energy output of hydrogen as it recombined in the presence of various catalysts.

Van Nostrand's Encyclopedia of Science states Hydrogen molecules dissociate to atoms endothermically at high temperatures (heat of dissociation about 103 cal/gram mole) in an electric arc, or by irradiation.

Langmuir found the hydrogen atoms recombine at the metal surface to provide excess heat (enough for welding).
The minimum calorific value for that recombination of atomic hydrogen was agreed to be in the region 90.000 cal/gram molecule.

In other words he had an input energy of 103 cal/gram molecule to dissociate hydrogen and an output energy of 90.000 cal/gram molecule when it recombined.

I know Hydroxy is a different gas and it is generated in a different way, but the hydrogen in Hyroxy is thought to be split from water, either as H+ and OH- or 2H2 and O2.
It was Langmuir's energy ouput, for the recombining of hydrogen on metal, that was food for my thoughts.


On a personal note I hope the signal in this thread does not get lost in the noise of personalities and misunderstandings. Like in so many others.

Good luck to all
And, again, thanks jdcproducts.

More details available at:
Langmur – Excess Energy from Hydrogen | chavascience.com

[altrez]

@Gdez,
This is the one that got me thinking about flexibility at this phase:
Compact Hydroxenator Hydrogen & Oxygen Separator cell Update! - YouTube


@Altrez,
These two previous references from @jdcproducts got me thinking about vented (not closed) catalyst systems based (if I interpreted the material correctly) on Hydrogen and the classic ambient air flow as the reaction source(s):

http://ventedcatheater.com/6.html
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/e...s/34/34p26.txt (this conversion attempt uses the same ambient air source as in the NG or Propane)

Thinking out loud, I'm theorizing that an 'updraft' sort of ambient air flow (thru the cat) might behave more predictably than having a pure O mixed in there with the H (to minimize the probability of a flame runaway should the catalyst surface get too hot near the injection zone?). Perhaps the reaction can be better controlled if the Ox-rate were metered and injected from a side port?

Anyway, just experimental considerations thrown out there.
We need a solution that's predictable and safe!

Hello,

Yes as long as we have some way to get the right mixture of O2 in the cat it will work great! I am sure it will take some experimenting to find what works best.

Once we find out what we want out of the cat temperature wise we can start making everything more efficient. I am very excited about this project!

-Altrez