The Simplest Perpetual Motion Machine Ever?

[soundiceuk]

Hi folks, as some of you know I have been interested in perpetual motion for some time now.

I believe that I have discovered the most important thing yet on this journey. If it works we will be able to build it very easily and possibly ditch all designs covered so far.


Ok here goes.

Heavy flywheel, one heavy pendulum and heavy duty one way bearing swinging from the main shaft.

The pendulum stays in two states, lever or pendulum. Maximum rpm unknown!

The way I see it working is the active flywheel (pendulum) stores energy in the passive flywheel. The alternator / pump would use that energy.

I see it as the passive flywheel acting as a capacitor for the active flywheel.

Am I going nuts or can anyone else visualize it?

I would be happy to hear a good reason why it won't work so myself or anybody else doesn't waste their time.

Best regards,

Paul

[Turion]

I don't get it

What provides the motive force to the main shaft OR what provides motive force to the pendulum? I assume you are using the one way bearing so that the pendulum will swing up and then cause the shaft to rotate on the back swing. What swings the pendulum up in the first place? The swing back will always be less than the swing up.

If you are just going to swing the pendulum around and around on the shaft using the locking of the one way bearing to "lift" the pendulum, the pendulum is in "free fall" on the way down, exerting NO force on the shaft to assist in rotation.

Take a look at the "Bouncer" design of Matt Jones. It correctly uses a swinging weight to gain a mechanical advantage. When the torque it exerted ripped the anchor bolts out of the concrete floor, that became fairly obvious.

Dave

[soundiceuk]

Hi Dave, maybe I've been playing with 10kg pendulums and one way bearings too long and gone crazy with this one. No offence taken if I get shot down here.

This is sometimes how I learn.

I haven't build this, it is just theory, but based on observations of heavy pendulums fitted with one way bearings and trying to understand the behaviors when fixed to a rotating wheel.

I should have been more specific, but wanted to engage questions and answers to try and dig the info out into writing.

I just really felt the need to post something, whilst it was fresh in my head.


When the device would be in the stationary position the pendulum would hang down.

To start the device the passive flywheel, for example 1 x 30kg circular disc. would be turned backwards 90 degrees, so that the pendulum is now a lever and the center of mass is no longer in the center causing the device to rotate.

The inertia created by the passive flywheel would turn until the point when the lever then becomes a pendulum again. Once it reaches the furthest point, it then becomes a lever again, increasing the passive flywheel speed and recylcleing the energy for another rotation.

I believe the key to making it work is enough mass in the passive and active flywheel components to provide the torque required for output.

Does that make sense, or have I gone batty!


Best regards,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

I see the front pendulum swing as moving the center of mass therefore over balanced wheel and the back swing is pure leverage.

it kind of reminds me of the hand motion in this video at 2:00

Free Energy - living energy machine - YouTube

The pendulum / lever keeps pulsing it around instead of the hand wheel.

Ok totally different mechanism, but maybe you can see what I mean.

It also reminds me of purelyprimitives video:

Pendulum To Rotary Power

Pendulum To Rotary Power - YouTube

[soundiceuk]

Hi folks,

Group Prototype 2 - Stage 3 - Open Source Project - YouTube

The next move was going to be bigger heavier flywheels.

My current thoughts are more focused on the results of a heavy pendulum fitted with one way bearings on the main shaft, but not inside the frame.


I believe this new pendulum will act as a pump for the active flywheel.

I still maintain that increasing the weight of the passive flywheel will have a similar effect, as I believe the inertia of a heavier passive flywheel would also act as a pump to the swinging pendulums.

On the look out for a heavy block of mild steel, I already have the shaft collars.

I'm still of the mindset that the active pendulums may not be needed at all.

As I tried to explain above - Instead use a heavy pendulum fitted with heavy duty one way bearing on the main shaft and a heavier flywheel.

I visualize the inertia of a heavy passive flywheel assisting the leverage of the pendulum swinging backwards with the one way bearing locked onto the main shaft. This is where the torque input comes from.

The passive flywheel stores this energy for use by an alternator or fluid pump.

When the pendulum swings back it is not seen or felt by the passive flywheel as the pendulum is freewheeling.

Any thoughts good or bad welcome.

Best regards,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

Hi folks, I worked out I can fit two 18kg, 830mm x 5mm thick mild steel wheels.

Should make a little bit of difference compared to 0.8kg aluminium wheels.

I would like to fit 200kg wheels, but I'm scared what might happen.

That won't stop me or someone else doing it.

Best regards,

Paul

[Stephen Brown]

A little goes a long way!

I think you might be onto something.
This idea is too simple.
We like complex, the discovery of the new mystery.
But this is so straightforward.
A piece of gear that takes advantage of the simplest concept we have never mastered, gravity.
Bravo.
When I first saw the Chalkalis device I said the same thing to myself.
Thank you for bringing this around again for our consideration.
My goal is to get this energy thing behind us once and for all.
To create a system that does what we need. Deliver power for our everyday needs clean and simple.
Here is the Chalkalis concept. Right in line with what you're thinking.
Keep going.
Stephen

http://www.youtube.com/watchv=iHhZZ9...e_gdata_player

[Stealth]

I like this design. It is almost a self runner, only needs some help to make it so. I would add some magnets for additional power to help the gravity portion of the wheels. With magnets moving in and out on the outside of the wheel, you could take advantage of the centrifugal force already evident in your design. This could, with proper timing make it a self running design, maybe even to pull a small amount of power off of it. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck. stealth

[gene gene]

Hi Paul,
I too like this machine. In your last vid during the first run from about 0.11 sec to 0.16 sec it appears to just about hold it's own (best RPM?), or just me? In the second run it looks to start just below this RPM and is slowing rather quickly right from the start, at least to me.

Now for before you take this apart I wonder what might happen if you were to hinge the right side at the floor, (the far end in the vid) and suspend on springs the left close end, allowing a bit of bounce might provide a harmonic pulse allowing it to maintain best RPM. Just an idea.

Best luck to you, Gene

[Stephen Brown]

It also reminds me of purelyprimitives video:

Pendulum To Rotary Power

Pendulum To Rotary Power - YouTube

Purelyprimitives, Dmitriyev machine experiments are looking good in the arena of gravity engines. I can't wait till he hooks it up to that alternator!

Purelyprimitives

[soundiceuk]

I think you might be onto something.
This idea is too simple.
We like complex, the discovery of the new mystery.
But this is so straightforward.
A piece of gear that takes advantage of the simplest concept we have never mastered, gravity.
Bravo.
When I first saw the Chalkalis device I said the same thing to myself.
Thank you for bringing this around again for our consideration.
My goal is to get this energy thing behind us once and for all.
To create a system that does what we need. Deliver power for our everyday needs clean and simple.
Here is the Chalkalis concept. Right in line with what you're thinking.
Keep going.
Stephen

http://www.youtube.com/watchv=iHhZZ9...e_gdata_player

Hi Stephen, thank you for the encouragement.

Your link didn't work but I fixed it:

F.M.CHALKALIS ENERGY MULTIPLIER - YouTube

I have observed the machine some time ago and it fascinates me.

The thing I like about the design I presented is the scalability because of the low RPM.

I believe without the active pendulums the RPM would be nuts, it would need a dummy load to brake it and therefore a control system.

The slower the RPM the better in the publics eyes. Fast RPM and heavy weights is pretty scary to be around.

Low RPM and high torque is what I believe will set us free. I'm chasing the same dream as you.

The results are going to be incredibly different with heavy flywheels.

I just need to make the frame a little bit stronger.

Best regards,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

I like this design. It is almost a self runner, only needs some help to make it so. I would add some magnets for additional power to help the gravity portion of the wheels. With magnets moving in and out on the outside of the wheel, you could take advantage of the centrifugal force already evident in your design. This could, with proper timing make it a self running design, maybe even to pull a small amount of power off of it. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck. stealth

Hi Stealth, again thank you for the encouragement.

I think i'll wait to see what I can achieve mechanically before bringing magnets or electromagnets into play.

I had a magnet idea today that is a bit nuts. Fixed magnets though. Probably will need to draw a diagram to explain. It's pretty wacky though!

0.8kg flywheels have very little inertia.

I believe to make it a self runner all I have to do is add weight to the flywheels.

Increasing the pendulums to 4 or even better 8 with another 4, 45 degrees offset and 3 flywheels.

From a two cylinder engine to a 8 cylinder engine. Torque will be pretty crazy.

I believe that will stabilize and smooth out the rotations.

I believe it's not far off doing something very special.

Best regards,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

Hi Paul,
I too like this machine. In your last vid during the first run from about 0.11 sec to 0.16 sec it appears to just about hold it's own (best RPM?), or just me? In the second run it looks to start just below this RPM and is slowing rather quickly right from the start, at least to me.

Now for before you take this apart I wonder what might happen if you were to hinge the right side at the floor, (the far end in the vid) and suspend on springs the left close end, allowing a bit of bounce might provide a harmonic pulse allowing it to maintain best RPM. Just an idea.

Best luck to you, Gene

Hi Gene, thank you too for your encouragement

There is definitely an optimum RPM, I wish I had an input motor, variac or frequency interter and RPM meter whilst running on a dyno. I could find out what that is.

For now I am thinking about control systems using an inductive or hall effect pickup. A motor would be used to turn the mainshaft.

The motor would be pulsed and the duty cycle, and period could be altered and mapped using an engine dyno.

I suppose a simpler method would be to use a variable dummy load and work it out via trial and error.


I like your idea about making it bounce, I'm sure that would provide interesting results. Not had too much experience with springs. How would you mount them?

Best regards,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

Purelyprimitives, Dmitriyev machine experiments are looking good in the arena of gravity engines. I can't wait till he hooks it up to that alternator!

Purelyprimitives

Hi Stephen, I get on well with Charlie aka purelyprimitives.

He is taking a Kanarev approach:

Purelyprimitive's Replication - Page 18

purelyprimitives says:

"Here's a link to the English version of the article that I referenced:

http://gratisenergi.se/Impulse_Power_Secrets.odt

He has several other papers where he goes into great detail regarding the math but unless you are really into that kind of stuff, this is the best article to get your head around it.

The bottom line is that the biggest bang for your buck is hidden in centripetal/centrifugal force using eccentric weight. His concept works with or without gravity being involved.

The device I'm building is a very poor representation of his work but its as close as I can get given the resources I have. I just picked up the last of the parts I need yesterday so I should have it together pretty soon."


It seems mechanical torque amplifiers are going to be the ones that break though first.

Peter Lindemann on Geometric Motor Arrangment - YouTube

Peter tells it like it is. 1:20-1:25 is my favourite bit!!!!

Best regards,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

I found this Bessler quote today and seemed to jog my memory about what Turion said in a PM a little while ago about using a small weight to move a big weight.

"A great craftsman would be that man who can "lightly" cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall? If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself." - J.E. Bessler

I see the art of making this work is by having a heavier flywheel than the pendulum swinging on the main shaft fitted with a one way bearing.

Theorectically I see the pendulum behaving as a pump for the flywheel doing exactly what Bessler is saying.


Stephen, I agree with you about F.M.Chalkalis Energy Multiplier.

His device is also working on a very similar simple principle.

Accelerating a heavy mass with timed pushes continuing in a circular motion is considerably easier because of the inertia the weight possesses.

The other subject I'm pondering is how much mechanical engineering mathematics / history has been altered to have prevented the secret to a PMM from being found.

Newtons laws and thermodynamics seem to be the major obstruction I have come across. Folks keep quoting me this stuff!

I was too busy messing about at school so I never got indoctrinated with any of it and because of what I have learnt over the last few years to do with the world and the way it is being run. I'm reluctant to get to involved in the maths because I don't know if I trust it. I'd rather just build something and learn that way. Of course there was quite a bit of basic maths involved from my part. I know that the basic stuff works though.

Just plotting how big a pendulum to try. 10kg should provide some interesting results.

It will either extent the run time or not. I say extend the run time double perhaps? or more?

Is the answer just impossible to imagine and maths cannot help here...?

It's my 34th birthday in March. Can I have perpetual motion please?

Best regards,

Paul