Legendary Bessler Wheel working model

[veproject1]

Please, watch the History of Inventions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnKjv9hnepE

[Michael John Nunnerley]

That is so cool

it's all in the detail

regards

Mike

[Joit]

Now, its another Illusion from you or really working.
But the comments at the Video are allready discordent, so you may have allready there some time to spend if you want to reply to them

[Stephen Brown]

All illusions!

He says he uses these to prove that perpetual motion doesn't exist.
This is what he told me in an email reply.

Here's what their site points out.

"Please, be advised:

These Videos are of motorized versions that were built to illustrate how these machines were supposed to work in the minds of Inventors."

VE founders don't believe anyone has ever achieved perpetual motion.

Please let me know if I am misrepresenting your views VE Projects...?

Stephen

[veproject1]

I'm experimenter in the contrary to many others. I have built all historical PMM
plus many modern concepts. I did not find any evidences that these machines are able to work without external power. Did you make your own PMM or you just a believer? Both are not bad

[Stephen Brown]

I'm experimenter in the contrary to many others. I have built all historical PMM plus many modern concepts. I did not find any evidences that these machines are able to work without external power. Did you make your own PMM or you just a believer? Both are not bad

vepeoject1
I build and experiment and love doing it.
I can tell you do as well. Your machines are beautiful.
I think contrarian views and skepticism are necessary to keep us honest in our review of efforts to move our understanding forward.
I do believe in perpetual motion.
I see it everywhere in the universe.
Why wouldn't it exist in a machine you put on a table.

1 Question.
How do you power this device in the video.
Perpetual Motion Machine. Magnetism & Gravity - YouTube
It is a beautiful build.

[soundiceuk]

It's an amazing build veproject, I do admire your work.

I do believe that a lot of the reasons the devices you so beautifully build don't do much, is purely down to there mass.

I bet if you scaled every component up 50x in weight you would see some serious anomalies that at the moment you don't get a sniff of.

Please consider picking your favourite machine and giving it a try.


I must admit, I have found it difficult to visualize what Bessler actually built. You have helped me greatly here with your build. Thank you.


Here are my thoughts.

I read that Bessler's secret was inside the wheel. Behind a drum skin.

It now seems possible that as Bessler was apparently a very skilled clock maker, that he had infact made a one way bearing and used this on the mainshaft with a heavy pendulum.

I see the two swinging pendulums either side and the stone crushing hammers as a dummy load to stop the wheel cascading.

If Bessler's device really worked, then that would make sense.

The wheels were big to give Bessler the mass to pull off COP >2.0

Bessler himself apparently said that if people saw inside at how simple is was no one would pay money, or something along those lines.

One way bearings have to have precision, Bessler's clock making skills could have possibly made very high quality ones for the day.

It would fit the description of the noises that were apparently coming from inside.

Well all theory at the moment, but I cannot fathom another mechanism that would sit inside and provide torque.

Consider trying the experiment with a pendulum fitted with one way bearing on the mainshaft and a solid flywheel on the mainshaft too.

Keep increasing the weights of both and see how many times the pendulum will pump it.


Can I ask, if perpetual motion was proved to you. Would you push it harder than you do now because there are billions of people in the dark about the truth and your builds as lovely as they are, are telling viewers that perpetual motion is not possible, when infact it is.

Please consider that mass is the missing ingredient from all of your builds. The general public don't know that. So unintentionally you are actively misinforming them, which is actually detrimental to your own and everybody else's freedom.

I don't know how awake you are, maybe not yet, but there is so much about the energy scene you have not experienced yet. There are great people here, there are misinformation agents.

I believe you are one of the great people, but you have taken a wrong turning in your research and development.

This is not your fault, it is the system that has educated you to believe these things cannot happen. Only seeing the truth with your own eyes will free you from your current mindset.

All my opinion and I hope this doesn't offend you or upset you. It is not written with any malice whatsoever.


Best regards,

Paul

[veproject1]

Hi, Paul. Thank you for your expanded comment. You said "the system that has educated you to believe these things cannot happen" One year ago I built a model of Roberval balance and experimented with it. That proves, no mechanical systems would work continuously, including overbalanced wheels, levers, etc... Any manipulations with masses inside the closed system (Bessler wheel) will fail. People like to criticize my working models but this video is not much popular like others. Why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoU9_BFIWwE

Best regards,

Val

[soundiceuk]

Hi Val, I haven't seen that experiment before and we are all learning from each other trying to refine a method of simply harnessing the wheelworks of nature other than what is available from solar / wind etc.

I think you may have raised a valid point. It could be that an over balanced wheel is impossible and my comments about mass are incorrect.

If you are correct then this still leaves me to think that Bessler did it a different way. The way I proposed was to use a heavy pendulum attached to a main shaft via a one way bearing. The best option would be a number of zero backlash sprag clutch bearings.

These bearings are used in auto transmissions and are much stronger than needle roller bearings and have less friction when freewheeling.

I worked out the best way would be to press them onto the axle and clamp the pendulum arm/s onto them. This would require no shaft collars, which removes the problem of sliding of the pendulum arm and friction from rubbing on the shaft collars.

One way needle roller bearings can be slid on to the axles. The downside is they have more friction on freewheel and need shaft collars, which can also cause friction.


I have tonight tested a design that uses the needle roller one way bearing and a 10.2kg pendulum and 2 x 0.8kg flywheels.

The results were very interesting.

I believe this is what Bessler was doing, with maybe some weights inside the wheel to give it more mass and make noises to confuse people. Witnesses may have figured out the noise of a swinging pendulum alone.


What I am saying is Bessler's wheel doesn't work from overbalance. It works from a flywheel much heavier than the pendulum providing inertia to the pendulum, using the pendulum to pulse the wheel faster via leverage on the down swing and freewheeling on the backswing.

The wheel is overbalanced when it is levering. It only has one weight though so doesn't fit into your experiment category.

Now in my experiment tonight my flywheels are no where near as heavy as the pendulum, but the results were interesting enough to spend more money on it.

It's such a simple design.

The only reason I could see the pendulum slowing down is because the mass of the flywheels is so little.

I'm scared at what it will do should I get the mass of the flywheels above the necessary threshold to overcome the friction / air resistance, but stopping the pendulum pumping is going to be a piece of cake compared to stopping the wheel, so I'm happy to get much heavier.

Your going to need mass to prove this method, but it certainly stands out from an over balanced wheel method.


I highly recommend you experiment with this setup if you have never done so before. Keep increasing the mass of pendulum and flywheel and see the results changing drastically each time.

This is what I have just witnessed with my own eyes.

It was merely an idea I had two days ago whilst I was doing the washing up.


Bear in mind that fixed magnets can be mounted to move the pumping pendulum back and forth.

If Bessler did use this method then another idea is that he used stops to stop the pendulum over rotating, this is maybe what the noises reported were.


The inertia has no where to go but round and round.

With the flywheels weight being less than the pendulum weight how can the pendulum increase the flywheels speed. It cannot, because it is acting as a load.

If the flywheel is heavier than the pendulum the device acts like the Chalkalis device or the Matt Jones "Bouncer" and the pendulum gives a positive push.

It seems like this 'push' is for a considerable angle more than the Chalkalis device and the Matt Jones 'Bouncer'.


Have you studied open system thermodynamics or mechanical torque amplifiers at all?

Best regards,

Paul

[Joit]

Hi, Paul. Thank you for your expanded comment. You said "the system that has educated you to believe these things cannot happen" One year ago I built a model of Roberval balance and experimented with it. That proves, no mechanical systems would work continuously, including overbalanced wheels, levers, etc... Any manipulations with masses inside the closed system (Bessler wheel) will fail. People like to criticize my working models but this video is not much popular like others. Why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoU9_BFIWwE

Best regards,

Val

They found the Explantion for it on Wiki, thats why and all Questions are answered.

But as GincroLoLs at the Comments says, "that the vertical beams are allways exactly vertical..", does it means, it will not work with his parallel rod system to keep it in balance?
Else, the conclusion is wrong a Gravity wheel wont work? ..!
What happens if he there is not such a rod system at backround. Let me guess, its out of balance.

[soundiceuk]

Hi Val, part of the mechanism Bessler used inside may have functioned in this way.

GravInert Group Prototype 3 Stage 1 - YouTube

I see it as there is currently no draft to let the energy flow through.

Changing the flywheel weight will take advantage of compressing energy into time and create a draft.

Just remember when you open two windows or doors and all of a sudden nature takes over. First you need to encourage the energy in.

Like siphoning liquid too, or taking the plug out of the bath.


At the moment the weights are not right, so it is using a heavy weight to lift a lighter weight. Flip them around and it fulfills Bessler's clue.

"A great craftsman would be that man who can "lightly" cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall? If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself." - J.E. Bessler





How to turn Time into Energy - YouTube

The heavier the flywheel, the more capacity it has to store the energy from the pendulum whilst it is levering.


It is very silimar to the child on a swing analogy.

The next push doesn't have to be bigger to maintain the swing, it just needs to be the same and at the right time.

Using a full disc flywheel, the right time is anytime, so if the weights are right it will just accelerate.


The best bit about this concept is high RPM is easily kept in balance. Over balanced wheels don't seem to fall into this catergory.


I believe Bessler used the two swinging pendulums and the hammers as a dummy load to stop his device cascading and to provide a way of altering the timing.

For a genuine perpetual motion machine to work it has to cascade right?

Surely if it is not accelerating, it cannot complete any work?


It has been suggested to use a servo to move the pendulum back and forth.

I think the servo idea will work very well, it could be electric, hydraulic or pneumatic.

The pendulum needs to be external of the wheel really. The is no need for two flywheels, just one very heavy one.

I think Bessler did it this way to hide the mechanism.

I think the alleged 8 weights were either part of his pendulum, to give the wheel more mass or even to stop the pendulum over rotating.

Best regards,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

I think I've got a little too carried away with this new idea.

I can see now that unless something swings the pendulum back and forth, the pendulum will come to a rest.

Oh well, back to the drawing board!

Sorry for side tracking your thread.

Best regards,

Paul

[veproject1]

Just give a time to bring the information in order
Best

[Turion]

Bssler Wheel

Imagine a wheel that will rotate clockwise, and only has two spokes. One is going from center to 12:00 and the other is going from center to 6:00.

On each of the spokes there is a weight. The two weights are equal, and are equal distance from center.

I have figured out a way to raise the weight on the 12:00 spoke so that it is farther from center than the weight on the other spoke, thus putting the wheel off balance so that it rotates. When the 12:00 spoke moves to the 6:00 position, I can return the weight to its original position and now raise the weight on the opposite spoke so that once again the wheel is off balance.

Now imagine the wheel has eight of these pairs of spokes. As each one passes top dead center, the weight moves out from the hub on the top spoke, and back toward the hub on the bottom spoke. The spokes on the right side of center ALL have the weight farther from center than those on the left, until they get to the 6:00 position.

I have developed a mechanism that can do this with ONE spoke and see no reason why I can't do it with more.

I am in the process of building a 4' wheel as a test wheel, but it will take me some time to get all the parts rounded up, and there may be some folks here who have some better ideas for how to put things together once they understand the concept. This is one of TWO motive forces that will be used to rotate this wheel.
If you are a Bessler wheel addict, let me know and I can give you the details. Otherwise I will post here if I ever get around to building this thing. I've got a lot on my plate and a wheel that even Bessler said was only COP>2 is NOT a priority

[wrtner]

I did not find any evidences that these machines are able to work without external power.

This is true until such time as someone produces a device that does.