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  • #16
    Originally posted by woopy View Post
    Do you mean that the magnetic field stay static while the toroid magnet wrapped with copper wire is spinning?
    Hi Laurent,

    The wire and the magnet move as one. There is no relative motion between the two. They both move in space together.

    According to DePalma, that was one of Michael Faraday's experiments.

    Regards,

    Vidbid
    Last edited by vidbid; 02-24-2014, 12:26 AM. Reason: Updated
    Regards,

    VIDBID

    Comment


    • #17
      Hi Vidbid

      yes of course i can see that the winding is moving and rotating together with the ring magnet in the same space.

      And my very question is

      IN YOUR DESIGN IN FIRST POST

      DO YOU KNOW IF THE MAGNETIC FIELD WHICH IS ARROUND THE RING MAGNET, ROTATE TOGETHER WITH THE RING MAGNET WHEN THE SAYD RING MAGNET IS ROTATING (as per my picture 2 post ago) OR NOT ??

      Sorry to insist but i have to know if i am on the right track with this experiment.

      thank's

      Laurent

      Comment


      • #18
        Updated Design



        Please experiment with and report your results if you would be so kind.

        Regards,

        Vidbid
        Last edited by vidbid; 02-24-2014, 12:10 AM. Reason: Updated Image
        Regards,

        VIDBID

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by woopy View Post
          Hi Vidbid

          yes of course i can see that the winding is moving and rotating together with the ring magnet in the same space.

          And my very question is

          IN YOUR DESIGN IN FIRST POST

          DO YOU KNOW IF THE MAGNETIC FIELD WHICH IS ARROUND THE RING MAGNET, ROTATE TOGETHER WITH THE RING MAGNET WHEN THE SAYD RING MAGNET IS ROTATING (as per my picture 2 post ago) OR NOT ??

          Sorry to insist but i have to know if i am on the right track with this experiment.

          thank's

          Laurent
          Hi Laurent,

          I am trying to answer your question. I really am.

          It depends where you are in relationship to the magnet.

          It's relative.

          1. With respect to the windings, the magnet has no relative motion.

          2. With respect to the contact brushes, the magnet is in motion.

          Let me put it like this: You can glue the wire windings to the magnet. Then spin the magnet. The wire windings move with the magnet.

          However, relative to space, there is a moving magnetic field.

          Regards,

          Vidbid
          Last edited by vidbid; 02-24-2014, 12:27 AM. Reason: Update
          Regards,

          VIDBID

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Groundloop View Post
            The problem is that the voltage generated in the wire going from center to rim get canceled out by the voltage generated in the wire going from rim to the center. The voltage gradient for each wire turn is zero.
            That is a very good explanation. I should have realized that. Thank you for posting it.

            I hope I have this right. Because the inertial direction is coming from the right and the B-field is coming up from the bottom, the current flow goes out to the edge of the disc, so even on the other side of the disc, the inertial direction is the same, and the B-field is coming back around, completing its circuit, and still coming from the bottom, and that's why the current stays in the same direction, no matter what side of the disc you are one. That was my mistake.
            Regards,

            VIDBID

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by vidbid View Post
              That is a very good explanation. I should have realized that. Thank you for posting it.

              I hope I have this right. Because the inertial direction is coming from the right and the B-field is coming up from the bottom, the current flow goes out to the edge of the disc, so even on the other side of the disc, the inertial direction is the same, and the B-field is coming back around, completing its circuit, and still coming from the bottom, and that's why the current stays in the same direction, no matter what side of the disc you are one. That was my mistake.
              Hi Vidbid,

              Yes that is the problem to be solved when making a high voltage polar generator. I have been thinking about this for a long time. The voltage gradient is generated with the same polarity on both sides of the magnet. This means that if you try to feed the voltage "down" again and out to your slip ring, then the result voltage outside the generator will be zero. Normally a polar generator is made of a copper plate with a magnet field going through the plate. You get a very low resistance in the plate and thus a low output voltage with a high current. Because the voltage is low, there is a lot of loss in the brushes at the slip rings. Maybe a spiral coil going from the center to the rim will give higher voltage? You will still need to connect the other slip ring at the outside of the spiral coil. And the other on the axle. If you try to loop the outside to the axle and use two slip rings on the axle, then zero output voltage is the result. Making a high voltage generator of this type is not easy.

              GL.

              Comment


              • #22
                Faraday Test 1831...

                Originally posted by woopy View Post
                Hi Vidbid

                yes of course i can see that the winding is moving and rotating together with the ring magnet in the same space.

                And my very question is

                IN YOUR DESIGN IN FIRST POST

                DO YOU KNOW IF THE MAGNETIC FIELD WHICH IS ARROUND THE RING MAGNET, ROTATE TOGETHER WITH THE RING MAGNET WHEN THE SAYD RING MAGNET IS ROTATING (as per my picture 2 post ago) OR NOT ??

                Sorry to insist but i have to know if i am on the right track with this experiment.

                thank's

                Laurent

                Hello Woopy!

                I will try to answer your question in the best of my ability...

                Faraday rotated a lonely Cylinder Magnet, made of conductive material...No Coils, No Discs...and collecting from center (shaft) and from Cylinder Equator surface Line...there was Electric Flow produced.

                Faraday came to the conclusion that the Metal from the Magnet was cutting its own lines.

                Whether Magnetic Field Rotates or stays Static...it is up to Us to "digest"...If the magnetic field lines would move AT SAME SPEED AS Magnet Metal...then NO Electricity would be produced.

                However, If Magnetic Field Lines of Force move...BUT SLOWER than Magnet Metal Body...then Electric Flow would be produced...and the more the difference...the more the EMF generated.

                Think about Magnetic Field DENSITY without a MASS... Rotating...versus a Metal, Physical Body attached mechanically and directly to a motor...

                Then I ask You...Which one do you think would be faster?


                Just my two cents.


                By the way Woopy...IF You did not use one of My Asymmetrical Motors...You will never light up that LED...



                Joking...


                Regards


                Ufopolitics
                Last edited by Ufopolitics; 02-24-2014, 12:44 AM.
                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Groundloop View Post
                  Hi Vidbid,

                  Yes that is the problem to be solved when making a high voltage polar generator. I have been thinking about this for a long time. The voltage gradient is generated with the same polarity on both sides of the magnet. This means that if you try to feed the voltage "down" again and out to your slip ring, then the result voltage outside the generator will be zero. Normally a polar generator is made of a copper plate with a magnet field going through the plate. You get a very low resistance in the plate and thus a low output voltage with a high current. Because the voltage is low, there is a lot of loss in the brushes at the slip rings. Maybe a spiral coil going from the center to the rim will give higher voltage? You will still need to connect the other slip ring at the outside of the spiral coil. And the other on the axle. If you try to loop the outside to the axle and use two slip rings on the axle, then zero output voltage is the result. Making a high voltage generator of this type is not easy.

                  GL.
                  Hi GL,

                  Again, thank you for that very clear explanation.

                  What do you think about this new design, the Mark II.



                  It's a little more complex, and that's the problem, ever increasing complexity.

                  I was hoping that this could be simple, but I learned something today, so it's not all bad.

                  Artoj tried to tell me, and he was right, as are you.

                  Regards,

                  Vidbid
                  Regards,

                  VIDBID

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by vidbid View Post
                    Hi GL,

                    Again, thank you for that very clear explanation.

                    What do you think about this new design, the Mark II.



                    It's a little more complex, and that's the problem, ever increasing complexity.

                    I was hoping that this could be simple, but I learned something today, so it's not all bad.

                    Artoj tried to tell me, and he was right, as are you.

                    Regards,

                    Vidbid

                    Hello Vidbid,

                    The Vertical Conductors, Perpendicular to Axis are the Ones who generate current, NOT the Horizontal ones Parallel to Axis...Therefore, all you are doing is adding more resistance per loop.


                    Regards


                    Ufopolitics
                    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by vidbid View Post
                      Hi GL,

                      Again, thank you for that very clear explanation.

                      What do you think about this new design, the Mark II.



                      It's a little more complex, and that's the problem, ever increasing complexity.

                      I was hoping that this could be simple, but I learned something today, so it's not all bad.

                      Artoj tried to tell me, and he was right, as are you.

                      Regards,

                      Vidbid
                      Vidbid,

                      The voltage gradient on the left (in your drawing) will be the same as the voltage gradient on the right, cancelling each other out. The voltage generated in the wire is not dependent on the north or south magnetic field. It is depended on a crossing magnetic field only. So my best guess is that you Mark-2 will not work. Let us say you build a normal polar generator with a copper plate and stationary magnets outside the rotating copper plate. You then use the axle as one connection and a slip ring on the rim of the copper plate as the other connection. This will work. You then connect a space heater directly to the rim and center of the copper plate and the space heater is rotating with the plate. This will not work and no heat will be produced in the space heater. This because the voltage gradient going from the rim to the center will be pointing upwards, and the voltage gradient in the copper plate will also be pointing upwards, so the net voltage will be zero.

                      GL.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Groundloop View Post
                        Vidbid,

                        The voltage gradient on the left (in your drawing) will be the same as the voltage gradient on the right, cancelling each other out. The voltage generated in the wire is not dependent on the north or south magnetic field. It is depended on a crossing magnetic field only. So my best guess is that you Mark-2 will not work. Let us say you build a normal polar generator with a copper plate and stationary magnets outside the rotating copper plate. You then use the axle as one connection and a slip ring on the rim of the copper plate as the other connection. This will work. You then connect a space heater directly to the rim and center of the copper plate and the space heater is rotating with the plate. This will not work and no heat will be produced in the space heater. This because the voltage gradient going from the rim to the center will be pointing upwards, and the voltage gradient in the copper plate will also be pointing upwards, so the net voltage will be zero.

                        GL.
                        Hi GL,

                        Thank for you detailed reply.

                        That's disappointing.

                        Maybe I don't understand you correctly. Are you saying the direction of the B-field cutting the conductor across the plane of the ring magnet doesn't matter in regards to the direction of current flow in the conductor across the above-mentioned plane?



                        Regards,

                        Vidbid
                        Regards,

                        VIDBID

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                          Hello Vidbid,

                          The Vertical Conductors, Perpendicular to Axis are the Ones who generate current, NOT the Horizontal ones Parallel to Axis...Therefore, all you are doing is adding more resistance per loop.


                          Regards


                          Ufopolitics

                          Hi Ufopolitics,

                          I agree, but the diagram shows an exploded view. The conductors on the side of the disc wouldn't normally be that long.



                          Regards,

                          Vidbid
                          Last edited by vidbid; 02-24-2014, 01:22 AM. Reason: Update
                          Regards,

                          VIDBID

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by vidbid View Post
                            Hi GL,

                            Thank for you detailed reply.

                            That's disappointing.

                            Maybe I don't understand you correctly. Are you saying the direction of the B-field cutting the conductor across the plane of the ring magnet doesn't matter in regards to the direction of current flow in the conductor across the above-mentioned plane?



                            Regards,

                            Vidbid
                            Vidbid,

                            Yes, that is how I see it, but I may be wrong. You setup is probably worth trying out before any certain conclusions can be made.

                            GL.
                            Last edited by Groundloop; 02-24-2014, 01:32 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Groundloop View Post
                              Vidbid,

                              Yes, that is how I see it, but I may be wrong. You setup is probably worth trying out before any certain conclusions can be made.

                              GL.
                              Hi GL,

                              Thank you for your honesty.

                              What effect does the direction of a B-field have on a conductor in motion?

                              How does it affect the current direction?

                              That is the question that I will be looking for an answer to.

                              Regards,

                              Vidbid

                              Ref: The Homopolar Handbook: A Definitive Guide to Faraday Disk and N-Machine ... - Google Books
                              Last edited by vidbid; 02-24-2014, 03:01 AM. Reason: Updated with Link
                              Regards,

                              VIDBID

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Please notice the rectangular red-outlined box below:



                                It's not completely legible, but I have a pretty good idea what it means and what it refers to.


                                polariti?? reverse if direction of magnetization or ?ense of rotation is rever?ed


                                Click on the image to see an enlargement.

                                Regards,

                                Vidbid

                                PS: Source of Images: Is NASA Sending the Cassini Mission to its Doom?!
                                Last edited by vidbid; 02-24-2014, 03:50 AM. Reason: Added Link for Source of Images
                                Regards,

                                VIDBID

                                Comment

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