Do-ability and the ethics of "free energy"

[Tarkus]

I'm starting this thread for an number of reasons.
1. Wanting to know the reasons people are working on the renewable/free/over unity energy devices.
2. Having observed and been taken by those who miss represent themselves, their products or their intentions.
3. Observing people (even prominent in the alt energy community) seemingly obsessed with ownership and patents or their "secret".
4. Pointing out some of my considerations on the how and why.

My own reasons for playing/researching/working in these things are both selfish and altruistic. 1) I don't like being enslaved to a malignant system, that insists I pay corrupt individuals if I wish to live an even modest lifestyle. 2) I don't choose to be Amish. 3) I wish to break the chains of that enslavement for my fellows as well. 4) I don't wish to support the poisoning and destruction of our planet.

Simplicity: That said, I look at most of the OU/FE devices being shown and the level of complication or technical ability necessary to replicate or even understand the vast majority of them and find it obvious that they probably won't be available to the masses ever, due to a few limiting factors.
Complicated, need for large scale manufacturing/infrastructure change over, rare or hard to come by materials, can't be spread fast enough, too easy to squash buy those who own the existing MS (malignant system)

Profits/ownership: I view the patent office as the greatest hindrance to our energy freedom (as well as other things) from the concept of "I'm going to save the world" but everyone has to pay me to do it?

will continue later slave master cracking whip. back to work

[Allcanadian]

hello Tarkus

I research and experiment because I think it matters, I enjoy the challenge and it is the future. The future is never easy and man hours at the bench help but I have found it is the progression of understanding that counts the most.

On the issue of money and patents and business people. I find comfort in the fact that I am not for sale nor are the things I have come to understand. I share it with whom I please when I please and really their money means nothing to me. You see if your going to sell your soul for profit then in my opinion your not worth a dime and I choose not to play their childish games.

So really I have little if no interest in them or their money I am interested in the future. Long after they and their silly ways have long since past the technology and the understanding we evolve and share will remain. It's not going to be easy it's going to be very hard but nothing worth doing is ever easy.

At the end of the day the fact remains that any fool can make money but the measure of a man is based on integrity and compassion.

AC

[Bob Smith]

I suppose my reasons for searching out FE have to do with recognizing that we live in a world of lies. These lies enable small groups of people to live only for themselves. They in turn perpetuate the lie that happiness lies in living for oneself, through the media and control of education and industry. I believe we are created for one another, to find happiness in self-giving love. Those who control technologies and resources that keep people in slavery may find some level of comfort in their greedy hoarding of profits while shaping and enforcing a culture of lies. But they'll never know the true joy that comes from coming to the aid of their suffering and poor neighbour. They'll never know peace by living only for themselves. Their comfort is superficial, and their hell has begun in their hearts. I'd like to be part of building a world in which everyone can claim their rightful place to meeting their basic human needs: food, water, shelter, light and energy, land, work, freedom of family, religion, association... I think FE can be part of this kind of world. I have hope - not just optimism - that one day the current order of lies will crumble and pass away, and a better one will take its place.
Bob

[RAMSET]

Mine are personal reasons

I feel stupid...
let me explain
Walking thru the rain during a thunderstorm I suddenly fear for my life
I realize that I could be struck down at any moment by the power of the
huge thunderbolts shaking and rattling the ground around me with blinding flashes ..driven by the "Machine" ...the system which pumps undefinable amounts of power onto the place I live at no cost whatsoever,

then It stops raining and I start to get sunburned toasted by a very obvious contributor to this machines power that is interacting with the center of the planet which my feet are passing over.....

As I walk I reflect on technology and what it has done during my life time
stupefying accomplishments in all fields of science and exploration.

And then I think about the Niagara falls power plant ..
and how when I open the door to look inside that power plant I see the state of the art there is a 100 plus year old technology which has not Evolved at all with the rest of the world...

I feel duped ....betrayed taken advantage of...

I won't feel stupid anymore and I won't follow those men and their example
of putting a price on what belongs to all, at a very big cost to the rest!!

just one mans opinion

thx
Chet K

[Bob Smith]

I won't follow those men and their example
of putting a price on what belongs to all, at a very big cost to the rest!!

Well said!
B

[Hrothgar]

My angle

If my ideas find fruition then I'll go a patent route with a caveat, I'm looking for ways to build with re-purposed everyday items so individuals could build them for personal use but corporations would have to pony up for manufacture after all patents only cover business manufacture not personal use manufacture. In this way the public can have access even if there is resistance. My latest pipe dream involves Items procured from harbor freight and an old hard drive hopefully the total investment won't go past $30 everything is very crude but, I have to test the principles to see if they work at all much less efficiently. I don't want to rule or own this world I want to claim the next one we can get our boots on.

[Aaron]

free energy - unrealistic perspective

I got started in all of this out of personal interest - have been seeking rare knowledge for most of my life. Second is to simply get the information out there and I saw an opportunity to do that since I have a knack for attracting the right people to me at the right time who are very knowledgeable in this area. I used to own a health food store and completely closed it down to work online and being able to make a living doing what I love came way after the other two.

I'd have to say it is a complete farce to even believe free energy is needed to save the planet. To save the planet, it needs to start with people waking up and zombies who simply become aware of new or revealing information are still zombies - new knowledge does not wake people up. For people to wake up, they have to realize they've literally been living in a constant trance most of their "waking lives", which is an ideomotor response strongly programmed by their autopilot mind, which is "Satan" - nothing more than the carnal reasoning mind of man - the diabolical (diablo = devil) machine in our mind that judges things. There is what there is and then there is the delusion that we make up about what is and our first major deception is that we are the fictitious persona that we go by and we think that is actually who we are when we still had a presence before we learned the name our parents gave us. And the When the masses can realize this and realize who they really are, that is more important than anything else - but virtually every religion has screwed this up for people to mystify the devil and other bs.

If we want to solve the energy problem, it is already solved without any fancy "free energy" technology. Stan Ovshinsky, the man who invented the nickel metal hydride battery invented an ultra low cost method of producing panels rapidly miles at a time and if you want to talk suppression, that's it. Creating solar at less than 10 cents per watt means you have a 100 watt panel for $10. https://www.google.com/search?q=stan+ovshinsky You could blanket every home on the planet for relatively next to nothing.

The knowledge on this manufacturing process IS known so it is not something that needs R & D. It simply needs to be revived and done. Ignoring these simple facts and pretending that some miracle free energy Tesla machine that self runs is needed instead is purely egotistical and serves nothing more than self satisfaction - I want this self satisfaction myself to be honest with you but it has no place in reality as being what is necessary to "save the world". Cheap solar is do-able. If the "free energy" is available then great if not, it wasn't needed to begin with.

Blaming the patent office is just an excuse so as to not take personal responsibility. I could point all kinds of fingers myself, but the facts of the matter are that what happens in my life is up to me and it isn't going to be someone else's responsibility without my consent and I don't give that consent.

Bedini's circuits are patented, but unlike most patent holders, he actually has given permission for people to build the SG's and personally benefit from them and learn about the technology.

My particular plasma ignition method I shared it all freely right here in this very forum and someone else applied for the patent for my personal innovation so now my name is on the patent - with 3 other people that had nothing to do with my particular invention. Oh well - how is that stopping anyone from building it themselves and benefiting? People can learn it free in this forum or they can purchase my ignition package and save a lot of time - so unlike many patent holders, I give the whole walk through on how to duplicate what is patented.

Jim Murray has patents on his machines and he has been trying to get his work out for many years before most people ever heard about "free energy". As a matter of fact it was Borderlands that first published his patent for the public to see way before there was ever an Internet. How are his patents stopping progress? People can read the patents and learn about something that actually works.

Paul Babcock has patents for his Lenz free motor and his amazing switching circuits, yet he is willing to go on stage and educate people about the principles that makes his motor work - again, rare for a patent holder and even more rare for patents in this energy field.

From what I see, the people that I personally know are the real thing have patents are what I also see is that the reality is completely opposite from what Tarkus mentions about the patent office.

The patent office is almost solely responsible for developing life as we know it because people had a way to have their work protected so they could make a living off of it. Had it not been for the patent office, we'd be living in a very primitive way with very little innovations - just enough for the bare minimum living.

Also, the patent office is irrelevant because people can keep circuits proprietary and pot them so nobody can learn what it is - yet they can still get out to people. I don't believe in the communist attitude that I am somehow entitled to someone else's work or that someone's work automatically belongs to everyone. If someone has invested literally millions into developing what they have, they definitely deserve to get paid for what they have. If anyone disagrees, they should move to North Korea so they can be part of the common good.

Obviously the central banking system is a system of slavery that goes back to ancient Babylon and I'd like to see it fall flat on its face like a lot of people but again, I don't believe in making excuses and I don't consider myself a slave. I've very free. If someone chooses to have a regular job, drive a car, have their HD TV and cable programming and their microwave ovens and McDonald's food, they can only blame themselves for their own lifestyle that requires them to play the rat race game to earn the money to support all of that. The same person could obviously live "Amish" style if they want, which is not what I want either, but being an energy, financial, medical slave to the system is mostly done by choice so anyone in that situation simply needs to make difference choices - they can't complain because they do have choice even if it isn't what they want - but it would fulfill their needs.

Just my opinion and have to be real about it. I want a straight up perpetual motion machine to power my home and car - but I'm also not under the illusion that anything like this is actually needed to save the world.

[RAMSET]

perspective

I suppose its perspective.......
it is quite true that free or cheap energy would not make a drastic lifesaving change to the smaller percentage of the world connected to the internet.

but the other 90% of the world might actually get a clean drink of water!!
at least for a start??

perspective.....

Chet K

[Aaron]

simple solutions already here - just apply them

but the other 90% of the world might actually get a clean drink of water!! at least for a start??

The number is much less than 90% but I get your point.

There are various solutions to cheap or free clean water and this is but one of many: Modern Day Air Well for Cultivating Water | A & P Electronic Media – Digital Publishing by Aaron Murakami & Peter Lindemann

Virtually every problem has already been solved and has been for a long time, they just have to be implemented. Air wells go back thousands of years - mostly a forgotten technology and the above link is a modern simple version of one that can produce multiple gallons per day.

I actually work with several people who are in organizations in third world countries that need electricity, water, etc... in various areas and the solutions that I see being applied are all very simple and elegant solutions that never have anything to do with "free energy" technologies or anything else exotic...that applies to energy, healthcare, agriculture, etc...

I may be helping with a food processing plant in an African country with plenty of sun so for water heat, solar water heaters will probably be used and any extra heat needed may be generated with biomass stoves to create biochar that can then be put right back onto the land where the food is coming from. No patented or secret free energy technologies are needed at all in order to create a completely sustainable infrastructure for this project and the same applies to just about anything else.

And they are land locked and may have to dig wells for water but are also considering those "air wells" if there is enough moisture in the air.

[Allcanadian]

@Aaron

I really enjoyed your post #7 and it is inspiring to hear of people following their dreams. It is kind of weird isn't it?, after a while I felt like that person looking in through the window at everyone else. Wondering why they feel compelled to blindly follow everyone else and go to school and find a job being employed by someone else. Regardless of what anyone may tell us we are free, we have choices and we don't need to follow anyone.

I also agree 100% that knowledge empowers people and it's funny that so many complain about their power bill but maybe less than 1% believe they have the power to change their situation. Personally I have never been this way much like yourself I think. In fact most day's I have so many projects on the go I don't even know where to start and the number of choices seems overwhelming.

For instance this week I have Schauberger type micro-hydro generators to test down at my stream(3 m^3/sec @ 2m head), a new wind generator I designed which needs building which I hope will beat the $0.10/watt threshold ( I designed a new super cheap generator for it), my 32,000 btu/hr solar thermal panels need some software tweaks for summer operation as well as the FE electronics projects I have on the go. As I said I think we have very similar interests and it seems very strange that so many people out there may think they have little to do with their free time. I mean free time, who in the hell has any free time with all the projects and research to be done let alone the time with family and chores around the house, lol.

In any case I liked your post and have always believed we have choices and have the power to change our destiny. This world we see out there doesn't need to be this way, we created it and we have the power to change it in my opinion. Personally I'm not as young as I used to be but I wake up every morning totally stoked to change this world and my feet hit the ground running with purpose not because I have to but because I want to... there is a difference.

AC

[dR-Green]

1. Wanting to know the reasons people are working on the renewable/free/over unity energy devices.

For most, greed.

They want more stuff, more money in their bank account, all coming in and nothing going out. They don't want to pay for stuff they need, they think it should all be free and provided to them. But they still want to be paid for the stuff that they supply to other people, they still expect to be paid for the work that they do as their job. They just don't think that other people deserve to be paid.

Absolute greed driven, in the name of "anti-greed" of course. There has to be an impossible and ridiculous contradiction somewhere at the very foundation of the issue that illustrates that they haven't bothered to think it through otherwise it wouldn't be a human activity.

[barbosi]

I got started in all of this out of personal interest - have been seeking rare knowledge for most of my life.
....
Just my opinion and have to be real about it. I want a straight up perpetual motion machine to power my home and car - but I'm also not under the illusion that anything like this is actually needed to save the world.

I feel ya brother, i'm just like you on the issue:

[Tarkus]

To continue

I'm glade I started this, it sounds like I might actually like most of you
I live off the grid as much as I can, solar and wind mostly, I still use petroleum products gasoline and propane, yet do the best I can to do so efficiently and continue to work on things to remove that dependency. My dislike of the patent office stems more from the results, rather than the office itself. If any of you have experience with defending your patents against large corporations, I'd like to hear about them.
I have some ideas, remuneration's and observations on how to go about spreading FE tech, and what kind of criteria that tech needs to break the chains of the existing energy cartels, without forming new ones or any of us disappearing under suspicious circumstances.
Imagine the FE widget, it generates all the electricity a person could need, powers the home and car, its made from relatively cheap and plentiful materials, using technology understandable and usable by most competent technicians, and not dependent on a large manufacturing infrastructure.
The ramifications of said widget on the worlds energy economy and cartels is staggering, and would bring about positive change around the world, but only if it is implemented on a broad scale and made available to a majority of the people on the planet. This will not happen as long as the concept of individual ownership and profit is applied, this kind of thinking has the effect of robbing the world of the widget and the good it could bring.

The why of it after dinner maybe

[Aaron]

obsoleting large manufacturing infrastructure

I'm glade I started this, it sounds like I might actually like most of you
I live off the grid as much as I can, solar and wind mostly, I still use petroleum products gasoline and propane, yet do the best I can to do so efficiently and continue to work on things to remove that dependency. My dislike of the patent office stems more from the results, rather than the office itself. If any of you have experience with defending your patents against large corporations, I'd like to hear about them.
I have some ideas, remuneration's and observations on how to go about spreading FE tech, and what kind of criteria that tech needs to break the chains of the existing energy cartels, without forming new ones or any of us disappearing under suspicious circumstances.
Imagine the FE widget, it generates all the electricity a person could need, powers the home and car, its made from relatively cheap and plentiful materials, using technology understandable and usable by most competent technicians, and not dependent on a large manufacturing infrastructure.
The ramifications of said widget on the worlds energy economy and cartels is staggering, and would bring about positive change around the world, but only if it is implemented on a broad scale and made available to a majority of the people on the planet. This will not happen as long as the concept of individual ownership and profit is applied, this kind of thinking has the effect of robbing the world of the widget and the good it could bring.

The why of it after dinner maybe

I think 3D printing is very disruptive and it's only scratching the tip of the iceberg. With enough ambition, it could collectively be a large boycott against Chinese made goods, which is what the U.S. needs right now. We're in trouble until we get back to making things.

And for the FE widget, if something is open sourced that really does it, could be independently manufactured cottage industry style overnight. Just a matter of time until we can easily use 3D printers for solar panels.

[Peter Lindemann]

Ink-jet Printer Solar Panels already Demonstrated!

Hey Guys,

And just to adds a little to Aaron's posts, here is a link to just some of the published work on the research going on using both 2-D and 3-D printing methods to print solar cells and other things.

Video: Printable paper solar panels can power gadgets - SmartPlanet

Thanks for starting this thread, Tarkus. I think it might help people understand each other better.

And one last thing. Aaron said in Post #7 that the real thing holding people back is the "ideo-motor trance." I totally agree, but in case you don't know what that means, here is a link to the original paper published on this topic in 1852, based on a talk given by William B. Carpenter, MD to an evening meeting of the Royal Institution of Great Britain. It is titled: "On the influence of suggestion in modifying and directing muscular movement, independently of volition"

The ability to tap huge amounts of energy from the immediate environment for extremely small amounts of money is coming soon. This will create an extremely dangerous situation for everyone as long as most people remain in their ideo-motor trance and can be manipulated by others "independent of volition" which means "without their knowledge."

Best regards,
Peter