North - South

[cikljamas]

Some of the claimants of Voliva’s $5,000 prize have argued that, because the moon and the planets appear to be spheres it must follow that the earth is a sphere, an assumption which Voliva and his followers deny. That, says Voliva, is like arguing that because a cow is an animal and has horns, all animals have horns.

If that is all that you are able to offer us on this matter then your contribution to this thread can only be described as follows: It Would Be Funny If It Weren’t So Tragic. Your only reason for coming by to this thread is to make people laugh, isn't it? So go ahead, make people laugh, that's all you can do anyway...

Neil Armstrong talks about edge of the Flat Earth

[TheoriaApophasis]

Aristotle’s three proofs were:

First. The disappearance of a ship as it sails over the horizon, the hull vanishing first, and the masts and rigging last, and the reappearance of an approaching ship in reverse order.

Second. The curving shape of the earth’s shadow on the moon during an eclipse.

Third. The changing aspect of the heavens in different latitudes, some stars disappearing and others appearing, as the polar star in the northern hemisphere and the southern cross south of the equator.
.

See,.....uhmmm, this is where you REALLY SCREWED UP.


Quoting Aristotle to someone that translates ancient Greek and eats sleeps and poos Greek Platonic metaphysics and philosophy


Aristotle actually said the earth was A SPHERE
Aristotle: De Caelo 294b13-21



Aristotle:
"there are stars seen in Egypt and... Cyprus which are not seen in the northerly regions."

"this could only happen on a curved surface"........."of no great size, for otherwise the effect of so slight a change of place would not be quickly apparent."

De caelo, 298a2–10





Dont stick your head in the lions mouth,......youll pull back a STUMP

[aljhoa]

Είναι το σημάδι ενός εκπαιδευμένου μυαλού για να
είναι σε θέση να διασκεδάσει μια σκέψη χωρίς αποδοχή του. - Ἀριστοτέλης

Al

[TheoriaApophasis]

Είναι το σημάδι ενός εκπαιδευμένου μυαλού για να
είναι σε θέση να διασκεδάσει μια σκέψη χωρίς αποδοχή του. - Ἀριστοτέλης

Al

I entertained your thought, then dismissed it for being absurd.

it was however entertaining



ανόητοι μιλούν πράγματα που είναι παράφρων

[aljhoa]

ανόητοι μιλούν πράγματα που είναι παράφρων

Δικαιολογημένη η χαρά των ραββίνων.

Al

[TheoriaApophasis]

Δικαιολογημένη η χαρά των ραββίνων.

Al

ανόητοι κηρύττουν ανοησία




Magnetism cannot allow a flat earth or forms.

Its actually amazing this kind of insanity still exists.

Divergence is a hyperboliod . Your flat earth is just a flat balloon espoused from a flat head.



Even my imaginary friend said such a premise is off the charts in the insane level.

[cikljamas]

Theoria, your contribution to this thread is equal to ZERO!!!

You speak greek? So what? It makes you smart? I am afraid that if you learned to speak few more languages you could become even smarter, so my advice to you is: don't do it, try to learn something more useful: for instance: how to reasoning logically, or how to use your own brains in the first place, or how to decline to be a parrot etc... "A parrot is a man who never thinks for himself, but repeats what he hears without any questions as to why or wherefore.”

Since you speak greek, maybe you could translate some other languages (also) using google translate (as Al likes to do), and learn something really important, something like this:

Kritika Kantove kritike ontološkog dokaza - Forum.hr
Koncept vjeènosti - Stranica 3 - Forum.hr

Allow me to reintroduce myself: I am Kreacionist.

[TheoriaApophasis]

Theoria, your contribution to this thread is equal to ZERO!!!

Zero , 0, is round, .....according to you it doesnt exist.






its amusing to talk to a Flat-Earther. Its like time travel back to an age where they bled people with leaches to release the demons


Geteth behind me Satan, yada yada



You cannot use google translate for ancient Prakrit


NOR can you use google translate for ancient Greek.

Try using google translate for even ONE line of Plotinus' works............I wished it did work, .....it doesnt

[Ernst]

@ cikljamas,

The boat example can easily be explained with a spherical Earth. You know, of course that a magnet (as in a compass needle) aligns with the magnetic field lines. Lines that can be made visible by using iron filings as you have probably seen before. Now imagine your magnet in a vertical position, let's say South up, then a compass needle next to the magnet (at the same height) will also point upwards. NOT towards the magnetic south pole, not even to the magnet, just straight upward. Exactly the same thing happens with your ships a few posts ago.
All the other "irrefutable" evidence can also easily be refuted, it is just very tedious so I am not going to do it. But I do want to give you another irrefutable piece of evidence.
First some math, which you can skip if you want:
----- begin of some math
Suppose we have a point X, rotating around O (origin) with angular velocity w.
Define a unit vector er pointing to X and a unit vector et perpendicular on er.
Then we can write: X = r . er (r being the distance from X to O)
For ease of writing I will write X dt as X', being the change of X per time unit.
We can then differentiate X = r . er to t (time) and obtain:
X' = r' . er + w . r . et
Or in words: the velocity of X is the rate of change of the distance to O + the angular velocity w . r, which you will probably recognise.
We differentiate this again to get:
X'' = r'' . er + 2 . w . r' . et + w' . r . et - w² . r . er
In words: the acceleration of X is the acceleration away from O + Coriolis acceleration + rate of change of the angular velocity + centripetal acceleration.
The last term you will probably recognise, but it is the second term that is interesting in this matter.
----- end of some math
On a rotating plane (or sphere) when moving away from the centre of rotation a sideways coriolis force is felt. For example on a CCW rotating plane moving away from the centre you will experience a force to the left, because you are moving towards a greater orbit.
A greater orbit requires a greater orbital velocity, coming from a smaller orbit, you do not have the required orbital velocity, so you will "fall behind" your surroundings.
Moving towards the centre you will also experience a force to the left, but since you are facing the opposite direction, "left" in the first case is "right" in the second case.

Now....

If the Earth were a plane as you describe, the coriolis force will not change direction if you cross the equator, since you just keep on moving away from (or towards) the centre.
If the Earth is a globe, the coriolis force DOES change direction if you cross the equator, because first you are moving towards a greater orbit and after crossing the equator you are moving towards a smaller orbit.
This coriolis force makes tornado's on the northern and southern hemisphere rotate in opposite directions and produces many other facts which are easily demonstrated/verified.

Ask your friend Voliva to explain this one.


Ernst.

[Hrothgar]

I told him the same thing .

I said I know which hemisphere I'm on by which way my drain swirled.

[cikljamas]

Ernst, your mumbo jumbo "scientific" extrapolations are really awesome and amusing...

Rowbotham ignored Coriolis effects of a cannon ball because there is none. The earth does not spin. This is why toilets don't flush in the opposite direction in the southern hemisphere, smoke doesn't spiral in the opposite direction, shot putters don't demand to throw east to west to break world records and ocean currents go anywhere they damned well please.

The rotation of small scale liquids in opposing hemispheres was debunked by Snopes.

As for water currents on a large scale; they're simply gradually put into motion by the winds. Water currents in the Northern Hemisphere will tend to rotate in one direction while currents in the Southern Hemisphere will tend to turn in another direction.

Wind Currents:

The Wind Currents are put into gradual motion by the attraction of the Northern and Southern Celestial Systems, which are grinding against each other as gears.

On top of that:

I'd like to know if we're really being subject to all those forces/motions, then why hasn't anyone in all of history ever felt it? How is it that all the centrifugal, gravitational, inertial and kinematic forces somehow cancel each other out perfectly so that no one has ever felt the slightest bit of motion or resistance? Why aren't there world-wide perturbations of our smooth rotation after earthquakes or meteor strikes? Why can I still feel the slightest breeze on my face, but not the air displacement from all this motion? If the Earth is spinning beneath us, why can't I just hover in a helicopter, wait until my destination reaches me, and then land when it comes?

Most people answer (though they can't explain how) that this is because the Earth's atmosphere supposedly rotates precisely along with the Earth. But if that's the case then heliocentric dogmatists run into a whole other host of problems. For instance, if both the Earth and its atmosphere are spinning 1,000 miles per hour West to East, then why don't pilots need to make 1,000 mph compensation acceleration when flying East to West? If thousand mile per hour atmosphere is constantly flowing Eastward, why don't North/South bound pilots have to set diagonal courses to compensate? If thousand mile per hour atmosphere is constantly flowing Eastward, how do you explain the casual yet unpredictable movement of clouds, wind patterns and weather formations every which way? If the atmosphere is constantly being pulled along with the Earth's rotation, then why can I feel the slightest Westward breeze but not the Earth's 1,000 mile per hour Eastward spin?

And now, Ernst, you as a first class scientist should be able to meritoriously answer to this:

To get an idea of the sizes and distances of the Moon and the Sun, we can make a simple scale model of the Earth, Moon and Sun. In the picture below, Logan is standing 15 metres away, holding a pink ball which represents the Sun. Marion is holding two pins, the one on the left has the head cut off and represents the Moon, while the head of the one on the right represents the Earth




So, Ernst, why don't you show us what would be (according to your scientific calculations) the exact optical & temperature consequences (for inhabitants of our "planet") if such hypothetical, outrageous, science-fictious Earth to Sun distance ratio, as well as the alleged main-stream Earth to Sun insane size ratio were correct astronomical descriptions of our reality?

Voliva was absolutely right about that. If the Sun were that big at that distance there would be no change of seasons because the Sun's rays would reach both hemispheres with equal volume regardless of its position north or south in relation to the equator.

The angles under which Sun's rays hit the Earth would be absolutely irrelevant and ineffective in that case!!!

It is obvious and absolutely compelling without any need for mathematical extrapolations, isn't it? I would be quite amazed if any Copernicus (including you Ernst ) proved to me that i am wrong, that my senses again lie to me.





9/11: AMERICA'S REICHSTAG -- Why The Truth Is More Important Than Ever

[Ernst]

Ernst, your mumbo jumbo "scientific" extrapolations are really awesome and amusing...

I'm glad it is appreciated! To call something "mumbo jumbo" I interpret as "I don't understand what you are saying", I more or less anticipated that.

Rowbotham ignored Coriolis effects of a cannon ball because there is none. The earth does not spin. This is why toilets don't flush in the opposite direction in the southern hemisphere, smoke doesn't spiral in the opposite direction, shot putters don't demand to throw east to west to break world records and ocean currents go anywhere they damned well please.

You are living on a different planet, than I am. So much is clear.

The rotation of small scale liquids in opposing hemispheres was debunked by Snopes.

Quite possible, as the movement is very small, the change in orbital speed is even smaller, thus the effect will be minute and fall within the error margins of the experiment.

As for water currents on a large scale; they're simply gradually put into motion by the winds. Water currents in the Northern Hemisphere will tend to rotate in one direction while currents in the Southern Hemisphere will tend to turn in another direction.

Wind Currents:

The Wind Currents are put into gradual motion by the attraction of the Northern and Southern Celestial Systems, which are grinding against each other as gears.

Very interesting view! So as, in your view, the Southern hemisphere and the Northern hemishpere are concentric circles, then how is it possible that the sky above it (which are two concentric cylinders, in that case) are rotating in opposite direction ("grinding against each other as gears").
When gears are concentric they should be rotating in the same direction, is it not?)

As I said before, I am not going through all your "irrefutable evidence" as that is simply too much work. I just wanted to present you with this fact, to which I can add a related fact, which probably also has been mentioned before and denied by you:
Foucault pendulum

The Foucault pendulum, or Foucault's pendulum, named after the French physicist Léon Foucault, is a simple device conceived as an experiment to demonstrate the rotation of the Earth.

So, relative to Earth, the plane of oscillation of a pendulum at the North Pole undergoes a full clockwise rotation during one day; a pendulum at the South Pole rotates counterclockwise.

When a Foucault pendulum is suspended at the equator, the plane of oscillation remains fixed relative to Earth. At other latitudes, the plane of oscillation precesses relative to Earth, but slower than at the pole; the angular speed, ω (measured in clockwise degrees per sidereal day), is proportional to the sine of the latitude, φ:

ω=360 sin(φ) degrees per day

where latitudes north and south of the equator are defined as positive and negative, respectively.

This not only proves that the Earth rotates, it also proves its shape is spherical.


Ernst.

[aljhoa]

Fault geology proves it.





Eratosthenes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Eratosthenes' method for determining the size of the Earth

History of geodesy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Carl Sagan - Cosmos - Eratosthenes - YouTube

Eratosthenes(Ἐρατοσθένης, IPA: [eratostʰénɛːs]; c. 276 BC[1] – c. 195/194 BC[2])
knew that flat-earth is a sphere and
sun "rays" are "parallel".

On the Sizes and Distances (of the Sun and Moon) (Περὶ μεγεθῶν καὶ ἀποστημάτων [ἡλίου καὶ σελήνης], Peri megethon kai apostematon) is widely accepted as the only extant work written by Aristarchus of Samos, an ancient Greek astronomer who lived circa 280–240 BC. This work calculates the sizes of the Sun and Moon, as well as their distances from the Earth in terms of Earth's radius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_...s_(Aristarchus)

On Sizes and Distances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Al

[cikljamas]

Very interesting view! So as, in your view...
When gears are concentric they should be rotating in the same direction, is it not?

Fair enough, so i am going to be fair also and admit that i don't really stand for this particular statement, i recklessly quoted it without double thinking of the real meaning of that sentence, so in order to be fair and consistent i have to dissociate myself from that specific quote...

This not only proves that the Earth rotates, it also proves its shape is spherical.

This not only proves nothing it proves nothing at all!

It is argued that as the length of a pendulum vibrating seconds at the equator is 39,027 inches, and at the north pole 39,197 inches, that the earth, like an orange, has a globular form, but somewhat flattened at the "poles." But this so-called argument proceeds and depends upon the assumption that the earth is a globe having a "centre of attraction of gravitation," towards which all bodies gravitate or fall, and as a pendulum is essentially a falling body under certain restraint, the fact that when of the same length it oscillates or falls more rapidly at the north than at the equator is a proof that the northern surface is nearer to the "centre of attraction," or centre of the earth, than the equatorial surface: and of course if nearer the radius must be shorter, and therefore the "earth is a spheroid flattened at the poles."

The above is very ingenious and very plausible, but unfortunately for its character as an argument, the evidence is wanting that the earth is a globe at all; and until proof of convexity is given, all questions as to its being oblate, oblong, or entirely spherical, are logically out of place.

It is the duty of those who, from the behaviour of a pendulum at different latitudes, contend that the earth is spherical, to first prove that no other cause could operate besides greater proximity to a centre of gravity in producing the known differences in its oscillations. This not being done, nor attempted, the whole matter must be condemned as logically insufficient, irregular, and worthless for its intended purpose.

Read more: Zetetic Astronomy, Earth Not A Globe: Chapter XIV. Examination of the So-Called ''Proofs'' of the Earth's Rotundity: Variability of Pendulum Vibrations

Ernst, you don't have to go through all my irrefutable evidence, you could just refer to Voliva's argument that if the Sun were that big at that distance there would be no change of seasons because the Suns's rays would reach both hemispheres with equal volume regardless of its position north or south in relation to the equator.

If you scrolled just a little bit north from here you could see these words of mine:

According to RET when the Earth is closest to the Sun (in January (closer for 5 000 000 km than it is in July)) due to the alleged Earth's tilt, the Southern hemisphere is more exposed (than Northern hemisphere) to the Sun's sharp ("more vertical") rays, so we enjoy Summer in the South and Winter in the North and vice versa.

But, what scatters wet RET dreams is the fact that in January we have deadly synergy of the two important factors: the first factor: significant decrease of the distance between the Earth (which is closer for 5 000 000 km than it is in July) and the Sun; and the second factor: Sun's ("more vertical") rays hit the Southern Hemisphere under sharper angles comparing it with Northern hemisphere. But these sharper angles are the very same angles under which Sun's rays hit the Northern Hemisphere in July. So, why then in January in Southern hemisphere isn't 3 % (150 000 000 / 5 000 000) hotter than it is in July in Northern hemisphere? .........Don't forget: The angles are the same!!!

If the Earth were round and so far away from the Sun we would have to deal with the same problem (significant temperature difference between North and South) in Winter time also, that is to say, in July when the Earth is farthest from the Sun, Southern hemisphere this time should be tilted away from the Sun which would again have deadly impact for Southerners who would instantly freeze to death if southern-winter temperatures were this time 3 % lower comparing them with the northern-winter temperatures. Don't forget: The angles are still the same!!!

Just in case that you are not aware of the significance of that percentage (3%):

"If the Sun were 5% closer, then the water would boil up from the oceans and if the Sun were just 1% farther away, then the oceans would freeze, and that gives you just some idea of the knife edge we are on."

According to RET Southern Hemisphere should be completely uninhabitable!!!

If you don't consider above argument as irrefutable proof against what you believe (which is absolute insult for human reason and dignity) then i just can't help you.

@ Al, which century do you live in?

[TheoriaApophasis]

Your flavor of insanity is amusing.


You have put much thought into constructing your Cloud Castle fantasy.


its a type of science fiction, MINUS the part where the author knows hes writing fiction.



This variety of insanity is common in nut wards.


A bit harmless,........typical of those on the streets holding signs saying "THE END IS NEAR!!"



Seek mental help