William F. Skinner - 1939 Gravity Power

[Aaron]

Bulgarian video

Hi, I am starting to regret posting the Bulgarian video. It maybe a spoof. I am not out to spoof anyone. I have completed the gearbox and drive train, I still have to complete the wiring and than I can test. I will post results when available.

That's great you posted that link. It's relevant but not a real replication. What they're doing is what most people are doing.

Found the guy on Youtube, but not sure he speaks English. Looks like he might be a politician or something from some of his FB pics.

[Aaron]

wobbly frame

Hi Aaron, yes still the same, if you are going to replicate then do just that and not deviate from the original.

The circular input in there case actually changed from circular to a type of resonant elipse due to the frame not being up to strength, it moves a lot causing a non circular movement, look again at video.

This apart, they are not going to go anywhere not "replicating", there are specific parts to the machine that have to be done exactly as the original or no prize

regards

Mike

Interesting on the unintentional ellipse from a wobbly frame - will have to look at it again.

[h2ocommuter]

I did a simple test today. I took all the weights off and started the motor. The tilt plate just moved up and down and did not rotate. The output shaft is definitely powered by the weights falling toward the the center of gravity. No weights on the tilt plate, no rotation at the output shaft.

I still have to fabricate a few more parts to connect the PMA. It should be a few more days.

What I found with the stubborn up and down movement was the free bearing that is the output driver shaft has to much tension caused by alignment possibly, outdrive has to much friction or on the other end the shaft alignment center is not directly over center. This is the most critical element because at a point the center is vertical not offset.

[Burnit0017]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zayy...ature=youtu.be

Hi, I did a manual test today with really poor results. Based on what I experienced I see no reason to continue this project. My analysis of how this configuration should work is wrong. I had 60 pounds on the tilt and there was no benefit, in fact it made it was more difficult to turn. I adjusted all the possible parameters that I could and my conclusion is there no way a small electric motor will make this configuration operate.

[Aaron]

pictures

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zayy...ature=youtu.be

Hi, I did a manual test today with really poor results. Based on what I experienced I see no reason to continue this project. My analysis of how this configuration should work is wrong. I had 60 pounds on the tilt and there was no benefit, in fact it made it was more difficult to turn. I adjusted all the possible parameters that I could and my conclusion is there no way a small electric motor will make this configuration operate.

Would you mind posting a couple pics with a little distance from the machine so we can see the whole setup?

[Burnit0017]

Hi, I can post some pictures in the morning. I received some info from one other person that had tried a similar configuration and they had the results.
Under no load conditions the weight on the tilt plate does fall toward the changing rotational center of gravity. When placed under a load the configuration always operates in a stalled state.

[Burnit0017]

I hope this helps. This was a attempt at the Skinner simple Demo, not a replica.

The power output was trying to drive the input to the 1 to 6 gearbox and PMA with no load.
The 60 pound weight stalled, never achieved free fall.

[Aaron]

Basic Skinner

Burnit,

Ok, I see what you're doing. The weight you have on the lower shaft I think is quite a bit more than what Skinner has on each quarter of his full size machine. I think it is good to have the weight up towards the top to make it more top heavy and therefore will tap more gravitational potential.

I'd try to reduce the angle of the lower shaft in relation to the plate it is connected to and I would remove a bit of the weight - maybe the top 1 or 2 plates.

The distance from your circular driver's connection to the plate and the lower shaft's connection will make an orbit that looks like it may be about the same as what Skinner is doing on his full size build. If you reduce the angle - get the lower shaft closer to the circular driver, you'll have a smaller orbit. And with a bit less weight, will be more appropriate for your scale I think.

I don't know if the connector that couples the driving shaft and the lower shaft together is easily adjustable but if it is, I'd definitely reduce the angle.

[Burnit0017]

Hi, tried all your suggestions and still had poor results. I was not able to increase the RPM. When I tried the tilt would rise up and stop rotating, the circular drive would continue to rotate. The device stalled.

Maybe others will have different results. I look forward toward their findings.

I learned a lot and thank you for taking the time to look at my attempt.

I plan to continue with my other gravity assisted project. Thanks again.

[Genegene]

Burnit0017 I have one working. I'm using a 24v motor with gear reduction to drive the weights. I have 28lbs of weight. One 12" pulley on the drive shaft going to a 3" pulley on a DC motor as a generator. Right now it's 60 to 70 rpm and getting 3.49 V out of the generator. But the math is right. 3.49 V at 240 rpm is right for this motor/generator. it's a 36V 18amp motor at 2500 to 3000 rpm. Don't give up. Lower the weight and go with pulleys. You got too much friction going on. I'll post some videos when I get the 20" pulley going.

[Adam]

Burnit0017,

can you try taking all the weight off the arm and tie the arm with rope in one position to hold it in one place. Then turn the top crank like you did in the last video. When you turn the crank the crank should go around easy but the bottom gear should not move at all. If the gear rotates your universal joint is not working correctly and from what I can see in the video this is what I think the problem could be.

Thanks.
Adam

[Burnit0017]

Hi, I have machined a flat surface on the sides of the universal joint so the set screws are not slipping. When the bottom gear does not turn the top crank does rotate and the result is the tilt plate does not rotate but rises up and then down. I was calling this a stalled condition.

I hope this helps.

[shylo]

the plate

Hi Burn, When I stop the lower shaft and weight ( they're one unit)..The plate and upper weight and input shaft ,continue to move.
The up and down motion in the plate should be where the lower shaft is connected.(that is with it stalled).
When in operation that up and down disappear, I think it gets added to the output?
Still on the back burner for the moment, just things I've seen ,
artv

[Burnit0017]

Hi, I think the problems is the gearbox and PMA is too much load for the mechanical advantage. I can try to change the gearbox to a 1 to 3 ratio. That will reduce the load of the no load condition. It show take a few days. I will post results when available.

Thanks for info.

I can only give this one more change because I need the parts for another project. Sorry.
We will see how it goes. Thanks again.

[Burnit0017]

possible Solution to failed simple Skinner configuration - YouTube

Hi, I had poor results with all the Skinner Demo configurations I tried. I may have found a solution. It is similar but the center shaft has to remain stationary. The other problem is how to connect a PMA???? Suggestions welcome.