William F. Skinner - 1939 Gravity Power

[shylo]

counter balance

Hi Burn , Great video ,
I think this is where the "always falling " came from.
The counter balance has to be above, with more compact mass , the lower is longer and spread out.
Thanks , artv

[wayne.ct]

Amazing lack of communication and demonstrated inattention

Hi Fellow Experimenters!

The last time I read this thread it was much shorter. I just now read through the last few pages of this thread and watched a bunch of the videos, some of them AGAIN and I am really shocked at the way some are thinking they understand Skinner when it is quite obvious they are not paying attention to the obvious evidence presented. Many are trying to communicate but very few are being successful.

All I can say is this: We are looking at the same words, pictures and explanations but we are getting multiple different understandings. This is about par for this forum, but ALL the various builders trying to replicate this thing all call their devices Skinner replications. Well, I doubt they are ALL correct. After all, there are significant differences between many of them.

My conclusion is "good luck" because you are going to need it. I would say the chances are that most of the replications will fail because the builders simply cannot understand what they are seeing and are jumping to conclusions about how the Skinner device works. It sure is obvious that they are not building things that match what Skinner did. My guess is that 90 percent of the replications will fail because they can't interpret correctly what the pictures show.

You guys are really shaking my trust that you know much at all. Go back to the video of Skinner showing his machine and figure out how the machine in the video was constructed and then maybe you can build a replication that works.

Now, it should be obvious that I think I am seeing things that most of you are missing. So, I need to open myself to your sticks and stones. If you would like to consider working with me or me working with you let me know by a personal message on this forum. If you live near me, I will consider it.

[Aaron]

Skinner comments

Skinner had multiple machines and I'm not just talking about different models that led him to his final machine. He had a machine elsewhere that he used to supply the energy to lathes, mills, etc... for the purposes of manufacturing landing gear mechanisms for planes at the Naval Air Station near his home during the war.

Not everything I know about the Skinner machine was gained by watching the original video or reading the old newspaper articles and as much as the points I already made were dismissed, anyone can take it or leave it.

Burnit, congrats on actually trying to build something - you're in the minority, but I did hear you say that you wanted a counter weight on the lower shaft, but that will defeat the asymmetry of the system. The shaft that you have the lower weight sitting on, your center of gravity is quite low for that. If you can raise that weight up and tie it up and test, you will find that you create a stronger gradient to make more use of gravitational input. The orbit you have is quite large and might do better being a bit smaller. So far your input crank is very circular - up to you if you want to explore the ellipse.

Shylo - the "always falling" concept I find has a couple meanings but they're actually directly related. For one, if the weight is disconnected from the shaft so it can freely spin, it will always fall to the incline. The other "always falling" is that in an elliptical orbit, the weight is at the highest height 50% between the narrow ends of the ellipse and lowest at the ends of the ellipse. So when it is pulsed back and forth, the height goes from a high point to a low point as it falls towards the ends of the ellipse. With circular orbit, the height remains fixed and it is only possible take advantage of one of the "always falling" principles but not both.

[sprocket]

I have been playing with this too, but on a micro-scale compared to what Burnit has produced. Basically I'm at the stage of examining what weight a small DC motor will lift at a given voltage, compared to what weight the same motor will achieve when tied to my 'Skinner Device'. So a long way to go.

My extremely crude setup uses one straight shaft, very like the setup described in Patrick Kelly's free-energy tome in fact! I mention this because I have also tried an extremely crude ellipse-approximation. In the below image, imagine that the shaft is sticking through a fixed & horizontal metal ring, about half the size of the "rotor-arm", and positioned so that when the motor causes the weight to rotate, the shaft lightly touches its inner edge for the full 360 degrees of its circular orbit. Now imagine rather than being fixed-horizontal, it is fixed at an angle. Also imagine that the shaft is not attached directly to the rotor-arm as below, but to a weak spring that is then attached to the rotor-arm. If you managed to imagine all that, treat yourself to a beer, you deserve it! Now when the motor causes the weight to rotate, it will prescribe an ellipse rather than a circle. Granted, its not a true ellipse as the ring's contact with the shaft will occur at different heights on the shaft. And there's all that friction as well... But it's close enough, and at low rotational speeds, I could see no advantage when the shaft followed this pseudo-elliptical path.

[Burnit0017]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hjy...ature=youtu.be

Hi, my first goal is to complete the build and generate some form of electricity at the output. Then I can identify the problem areas and fix as needed.


Sprocket thanks for posting. I am fabricating the same design. I look forward to your results.

[Burnit0017]

Drive train and gearbox, I still have to mount the PMA

[shylo]

Nice work looking forward to the pmg connected.
artv

[wayne.ct]

Aaron's response to my comment last week

Thanks, Aaron, that made sense to me.

[john_g]

Hi

Perhaps an easy demonstration of a similar principle for this device can be shown by the following. Position a small scooter in front of you, with both wheels on ground and the front-wheel nearest you, back-wheel pointing away and handle bars held upright. Drawing the handle bar towards you (pivoting on the front-wheel) will lift the back-wheel / body off the ground and a slight tilt of the handle bar to the left or right will make the scooter body fall towards you. As the body comes towards you will need to make a small adjustment to the position of the handle bar to tilt the rotation plane of the body so it misses the ground. You will find that a small pumping action will keep the body turning very quickly for a minimal input force. Do mind out for your ankles though - it's easy to get up some speed.

Here's a quick video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ec...ature=youtu.be

Kind regards

John

[Burnit0017]

I did a simple test today. I took all the weights off and started the motor. The tilt plate just moved up and down and did not rotate. The output shaft is definitely powered by the weights falling toward the the center of gravity. No weights on the tilt plate, no rotation at the output shaft.

I still have to fabricate a few more parts to connect the PMA. It should be a few more days.

[Burnit0017]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMk-...3DgMk-1ouP-gg)


Hi, I just found this video.

[Aaron]

Bulgarian Skinner Replication?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMk-...3DgMk-1ouP-gg)


Hi, I just found this video.

Sure looks like a bunch of similar builds. Circular and no disconnects, but he still claims 3.0 COP it looks like.

Google Translate says it is Bulgarian - here is the translation of the video description:

Petko Ganchev
News in New 12:00 - Demonstration and detection input and output energy of 52 seconds set time of 1 turnover and kinetic energy in the flywheel which has 81 watts to 49 watts and 2pozitsiya 1 position. Consumption is currently 1.2 Amps, Voltage 12 Volt -time oh, 74 seconds per revolution and aligned Power 1 turnover is 10.7 watts of electric motor / working with efficiency 60% because of the large reduction in revs /. 32 watts power produced / consumed 10.7 to 1 engine turnover difference .Coefficient 3.0 at 1.35 revolutions per second !!! On rising twice the speed of the flywheel - P grows squared and increases 4 times .. The radius is 30 cm, the weight of the flywheel is 25 kg

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Sure looks like a bunch of similar builds. Circular and no disconnects, but he still claims 3.0 COP it looks like.

Google Translate says it is Bulgarian - here is the translation of the video description:

Petko Ganchev
News in New 12:00 - Demonstration and detection input and output energy of 52 seconds set time of 1 turnover and kinetic energy in the flywheel which has 81 watts to 49 watts and 2pozitsiya 1 position. Consumption is currently 1.2 Amps, Voltage 12 Volt -time oh, 74 seconds per revolution and aligned Power 1 turnover is 10.7 watts of electric motor / working with efficiency 60% because of the large reduction in revs /. 32 watts power produced / consumed 10.7 to 1 engine turnover difference .Coefficient 3.0 at 1.35 revolutions per second !!! On rising twice the speed of the flywheel - P grows squared and increases 4 times .. The radius is 30 cm, the weight of the flywheel is 25 kg

Hi Aaron, yes still the same, if you are going to replicate then do just that and not deviate from the original.

The circular input in there case actually changed from circular to a type of resonant elipse due to the frame not being up to strength, it moves a lot causing a non circular movement, look again at video.

This apart, they are not going to go anywhere not "replicating", there are specific parts to the machine that have to be done exactly as the original or no prize

regards

Mike

[sprocket]

Apparently no mention of "Skinner" in the video.

I'm playing with a similar setup as well (no upper-weight) and one thing I have noticed that seems quite important is that a means of dynamically altering the fall-angle is necessary, if not essential, for a practical system. So when the output is loaded and the weight's rotation slows, the driving-motor should mirror this slow-down while instantaneously increasing the fall-angle. Again, I'm only talking about the simple setup shown in the Bulgarian video.

Dave Q's meccano demo shows this nicely, although this fall-angle change is accomplished by the upper-weight. Also, note that as his motor runs at a constant speed, the whole setup gets hopelessly out of sync when the output is overloaded.

[Burnit0017]

Hi, I am starting to regret posting the Bulgarian video. It maybe a spoof. I am not out to spoof anyone. I have completed the gearbox and drive train, I still have to complete the wiring and than I can test. I will post results when available.