William F. Skinner - 1939 Gravity Power

[Aaron]

elliptical?

First and foremost I have not accused YOU of anything. I merely meant that your chart itself, in looking at it, only shows that one cap has discharged more quickly, but does not explain why or what is happening or the effects of doing so. Anyone can discharge a cap slowly (into some kind of circuit), or quickly (with a screw-driver), and achieve similar graph results. True? So, don't misconstrue it as an attack on you.

No, it's not true. Take a cap and short it out with a screwdriver and show us all that it makes the plasma. It does not make it discharge quickly in this manner and I already explained why the cap discharges quicker with the negative resistance effect.

You're dismissing what I said without ever having done the experiment.

Anyway, I'd like to know if anyone else here has also done experiments with the elliptical movement.

[MagnaMoRo]

No, it's not true. Take a cap and short it out with a screwdriver and show us all that it makes the plasma. It does not make it discharge quickly in this manner and I already explained why the cap discharges quicker with the negative resistance effect.

You're dismissing what I said without ever having done the experiment.

Anyway, I'd like to know if anyone else here has also done experiments with the elliptical movement.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKVbrIwN4Vw[/VIDEO]

Any one can see that there are quick burst of high energy here. It is making high temperature plasma that makes small explosions (the popping sound), vaporizing small quantities of metal on the nail and making very bright light (plasma).


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4wvNRO4_MU[/VIDEO]

Attempts at elliptical mechanisms prove to be complex undertakings.

MagnaMoRo

[Aaron]

Any one can see that there are quick burst of high energy here. It is making high temperature plasma that makes small explosions (the popping sound), vaporizing small quantities of metal on the nail and making very bright light (plasma).

You've got to be kidding. That is not even remotely connected to what the plasma circuit is that accelerates the cap discharge with negative resistance. That is a very SLOW event you are showing and everyone has done that on the bench - that is NOT a high speed current impulse. You don't know the difference and apparently are not interested in understanding anything different than what you already believe.

That is an unsuccessful attempt so I'll rephrase the question - has anyone successfully built an elliptical mechanism and tested the difference between the output of that and a circular orbit?

[armandino]

Replication w. skinner machine 1° step

Salve a tutti. ho letto per molto tempo i vostri commenti sulla macchina di W. Skinner e, naturalmente visionato a lungo il filmato del 1939 ed ho deciso di buttarmi anche io nella sperimentazione alla ricerca del mitico guadagno di forza che si potrebbe ottenere da un macchinario che sfrutta le forze di gravità. dopo un anno di penoso lavoro e numerosissimi smonta e rimonta ho messo insieme questo macchinario https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3ZATuJZis che umilmente sottopongo al giudizio delle persone competenti che partecipano a questo forum, che tanto mi hanno illuminato nel trovare le più idonee soluzioni, nella speranza di ottene suggerimenti per migliorare la resa del meccanismo. fatemi tutte le domande, risponderò con piacere. saluti http://www.energeticforum.com/images.../notworthy.gif

[armandino]

W. Skinner Replica 1° step

Hello everyone. I read for a long time, your comments on the car of W. Skinner and of course long viewed the footage of 1939 and I decided to throw myself even I experimentation in search of the mythical strength gain that you would get from a machine that exploits forces of gravity. after a year of painful work and numerous dismantle and reassemble I put together this machinery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3ZATuJZis who humbly submit to the judgment of the competent persons participating in this forum, so that I have enlightened in finding the most appropriate solutions, hoping to gain an suggestions to improve the performance of the mechanism. do me any questions, I will answer with pleasure.

[Aaron]

big build

Hello everyone. I read for a long time, your comments on the car of W. Skinner and of course long viewed the footage of 1939 and I decided to throw myself even I experimentation in search of the mythical strength gain that you would get from a machine that exploits forces of gravity. after a year of painful work and numerous dismantle and reassemble I put together this machinery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3ZATuJZis who humbly submit to the judgment of the competent persons participating in this forum, so that I have enlightened in finding the most appropriate solutions, hoping to gain an suggestions to improve the performance of the mechanism. do me any questions, I will answer with pleasure.

That's a great build - the best large scale build I've seen.

Does the upper and lower weight move independently of each other?

Can you convert the upper circular rotation to an elliptical rotation? The lower weight's center of gravity has to change. It's only possible with an elliptical motion because at the end of the narrow path, the lower weight is at a low and as it goes to the wide center part of the ellipse, it is high, then it falls to the narrow end. After it falls to the narrow end, right before it moves in the opposite direction, that is where the input lever at the top needs to give its input - and it needs to do that on both ends of the ellipse.

[gotoluc]

Salve a tutti. ho letto per molto tempo i vostri commenti sulla macchina di W. Skinner e, naturalmente visionato a lungo il filmato del 1939 ed ho deciso di buttarmi anche io nella sperimentazione alla ricerca del mitico guadagno di forza che si potrebbe ottenere da un macchinario che sfrutta le forze di gravità. dopo un anno di penoso lavoro e numerosissimi smonta e rimonta ho messo insieme questo macchinario https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3ZATuJZis che umilmente sottopongo al giudizio delle persone competenti che partecipano a questo forum, che tanto mi hanno illuminato nel trovare le più idonee soluzioni, nella speranza di ottene suggerimenti per migliorare la resa del meccanismo. fatemi tutte le domande, risponderò con piacere. saluti http://www.energeticforum.com/images.../notworthy.gif

Ciao e Buon Natale

Avete lavorato sodo per rendere questo dispositivo.
Sei stato in grado di dimostrare un guadagno di coppia?

Grazie per aver condiviso

Luc

[BroMikey]

Hello everyone. I read for a long time, your comments on the car of W. Skinner and of course long viewed the footage of 1939 and I decided to throw myself even I experimentation in search of the mythical strength gain that you would get from a machine that exploits forces of gravity. after a year of painful work and numerous dismantle and reassemble I put together this machinery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3ZATuJZis who humbly submit to the judgment of the competent persons participating in this forum, so that I have enlightened in finding the most appropriate solutions, hoping to gain an suggestions to improve the performance of the mechanism. do me any questions, I will answer with pleasure.

WOW WOW WOW nice nice big build. Thanks for sharing so I can
learn the gravity experiments too. Ask Aaron he is the best.

[armandino]

energia dalla forza di gravità

That's a great build - the best large scale build I've seen.

Does the upper and lower weight move independently of each other?

Can you convert the upper circular rotation to an elliptical rotation? The lower weight's center of gravity has to change. It's only possible with an elliptical motion because at the end of the narrow path, the lower weight is at a low and as it goes to the wide center part of the ellipse, it is high, then it falls to the narrow end. After it falls to the narrow end, right before it moves in the opposite direction, that is where the input lever at the top needs to give its input - and it needs to do that on both ends of the ellipse.

Grazie, il tuo commento mi aiuta a continuare e migliorare la macchina. La massa superiore ruota in modo indipendente dalla massa inferiore e, come vedi nel filmato, questo si ottiene tramite la rotazione di una asse verticale (leva di archimede) dentro un buco della piastra. La leva viene utilizzata per ottenere un forte guadagno di coppia e consentire la rotazione della piastra in modo indipendente, con un moto circolare perfetto. Questa necessità mi impedisce di pensare ad un meccanismo ad ingranaggi che mi trasforma la rotazione circolare in rotazione ellittica. conosco gli ingranaggi ellittici ma li vedo lavorare bene su un piano verticale. Ti chiedo se quando le masse raggiungono la velocità massima, può l'energia inerziale annullare l'effetto della rotazione ellittica ? la macchina gira velocemente ed è già difficile contenere le sollecitazioni della forza centrifuga conseguente. secondo me la rotazione ellittica si può utilizzare con velocità ridotte. penso. e solo un ingranaggio con presa solidale può dare questo effetto e non una rotazione circolare indipendente. Comunque pur di ottenere uno sbilanciamento e quindi una leggera rotazione ellittica, ho disallineato il centro asse della leva ( il punto di fulcro ) con il centro asse del rotore sul pavimento e penso di essere riuscito, comunque, ad ottenere un lieve movimento ellittico vantaggioso in quanto i pesi a riposo, si posizionano sempre a sinistra. Io credo nel guadagno dalla rotazione ellittica e per questo motivo ho già completato disegno di una nuova macchina che sfrutterà questo effetto. A presto

[armandino]

Ciao e Buon Natale

Avete lavorato sodo per rendere questo dispositivo.
Sei stato in grado di dimostrare un guadagno di coppia?

Grazie per aver condiviso

Luc

No, è ancora presto per verificare un guadagno con un solo modulo rotore. Sto sostituendo la trasmissione con pulegge con una trasmissione a catena anche in previsione di trasmettere la rotazione agli altri rotori (4) in seguito. Debbo verificare se un motore da 220V - 180W darà la forza a tutti i rotori che installerò e solo dopo verificherò la bontà del lavoro.

[marxist]

translation attempt

Grazie, il tuo commento mi aiuta a continuare e migliorare la macchina. La massa superiore ruota in modo indipendente dalla massa inferiore e, come vedi nel filmato, questo si ottiene tramite la rotazione di una asse verticale (leva di archimede) dentro un buco della piastra. La leva viene utilizzata per ottenere un forte guadagno di coppia e consentire la rotazione della piastra in modo indipendente, con un moto circolare perfetto. Questa necessità mi impedisce di pensare ad un meccanismo ad ingranaggi che mi trasforma la rotazione circolare in rotazione ellittica. conosco gli ingranaggi ellittici ma li vedo lavorare bene su un piano verticale. Ti chiedo se quando le masse raggiungono la velocità massima, può l'energia inerziale annullare l'effetto della rotazione ellittica ? la macchina gira velocemente ed è già difficile contenere le sollecitazioni della forza centrifuga conseguente. secondo me la rotazione ellittica si può utilizzare con velocità ridotte. penso. e solo un ingranaggio con presa solidale può dare questo effetto e non una rotazione circolare indipendente. Comunque pur di ottenere uno sbilanciamento e quindi una leggera rotazione ellittica, ho disallineato il centro asse della leva ( il punto di fulcro ) con il centro asse del rotore sul pavimento e penso di essere riuscito, comunque, ad ottenere un lieve movimento ellittico vantaggioso in quanto i pesi a riposo, si posizionano sempre a sinistra. Io credo nel guadagno dalla rotazione ellittica e per questo motivo ho già completato disegno di una nuova macchina che sfrutterà questo effetto. A presto

Hi,
here my attemtp of a translations of armandinos posting #684 into English

[translation IT >EN]Thanks, Your comment helps me to continue the job and making the machine better.
The mass on top rotates independently from the mass below, and as you see in the video this effect is obtained through the rotation of a vertical axis (Archimedes' lever) within a hole in the plate.

The lever is used to get a big gain of coupling and allowing an independent rotation of the plate, caused by perfectly circular rotation.

This necessity makes it difficult for me to think about a mechanism with gears that would transform the circular rotation into an elliptical one.

I know elliptical gears but I can only see them work well in a vertical plane. I am asking you: when the masses reach their maximum speed, can the inertial energy cancel the effect of an elliptical rotation ?
The machine rotates fast and it is already difficult to contain the stress that arises due to centrifugal forces. According to my thinking elliptical rotation can be used at lower speed and only a gear with singular attachment [presa solidale ??] can bring about this result, not an independent circular rotation.

Anyway, in order to obtain an imbalance and consequently a slight elliptical rotation I have dis-aligned the central axis of the lever ( the fulcrum point ) from the center axis of the rotor on the pavement and I think that this worked, and resulted in a light advantageous elliptical movement, in so far that in the resting position the weights always position themselves on the left side.
I believe in a gain through elliptical movement and that is why I have completed a design for a new setup which will make use of that. I will be back.[/translation]

[Aaron]

William Skinner Gravity Power

Originally Posted by armandino [translation IT >EN]Thanks, Your comment helps me to continue the job and making the machine better.
The mass on top rotates independently from the mass below, and as you see in the video this effect is obtained through the rotation of a vertical axis (Archimedes' lever) within a hole in the plate.

The lever is used to get a big gain of coupling and allowing an independent rotation of the plate, caused by perfectly circular rotation.

This necessity makes it difficult for me to think about a mechanism with gears that would transform the circular rotation into an elliptical one.

I know elliptical gears but I can only see them work well in a vertical plane. I am asking you: when the masses reach their maximum speed, can the inertial energy cancel the effect of an elliptical rotation ?
The machine rotates fast and it is already difficult to contain the stress that arises due to centrifugal forces. According to my thinking elliptical rotation can be used at lower speed and only a gear with singular attachment [presa solidale ??] can bring about this result, not an independent circular rotation.

Anyway, in order to obtain an imbalance and consequently a slight elliptical rotation I have dis-aligned the central axis of the lever ( the fulcrum point ) from the center axis of the rotor on the pavement and I think that this worked, and resulted in a light advantageous elliptical movement, in so far that in the resting position the weights always position themselves on the left side.
I believe in a gain through elliptical movement and that is why I have completed a design for a new setup which will make use of that. I will be back.[/translation]

----------------------------------

If top weight moves independently of the lower weight, that is good since that is what is necessary to have the upper weight indirectly move the lower weight.

When upper weight moves, it moves the lower shaft and causes the lower weight to fall to the inside of the incline of the lower shaft.

That is how the lower weight is constantly chasing the upper weight.

That is also how gravity causes the lower weight move position even if it is circular.

With elliptical movement, the lower weight will fall to the inside of the incline of the shaft, which changes it's center of gravity in relation to its position in the rotational orbit - this happens in circular orbit as well. This is a change in the horizontal plane.

HOWEVER, with an elliptical orbit, the lower weight's center of gravity changes in relation to the angle that the shaft holds it in throughout the elliptical orbit, which means it its center of gravity actually changes height periodically up and down, which is impossible with a circular orbit. This is a change in the vertical plane, which only happens with an elliptical orbit.

With an elliptical orbit, the center of gravity changes on the horizontal plane that it is rotating around, but also vertically up and down depending on where in the elliptical orbit it is on. In the wider part of the ellipse, it is the highest and at the ends of the narrow parts of the ellipse it is the lowest.

The plate that you are rotating with the bottom of the lever does not need modification, only the very top of the lever, which needs to be made to rotate elliptically. There are multiple mechanisms to accomplish this. The original Skinner method is obvious in the animated gif that Bro Mikey posted. You can see the top of the lever is rotating on a little spinning arm on the end of a larger oscillating arm - together, it causes an elliptical motion of the lever and not a circular one.

This goes right to the place in my video that explains what you see in the animated gif:

https://youtu.be/JolNozy8UEY?t=34m56s

[Turion]

Elliptical Orbit.

GREAT build!!!

Here is a visual representation of what Aaron has been talking about. This is NOT my idea, but his. And it is a SIMPLE way to obtain an elliptical orbit. Not trying to muddy the waters, just trying to help out.

Dave

[SpecJet]

Armandino, Congratulations on your build, you've done a fantastic job.
I think this is the closest Skinner replication I've seen to date.

There is one area that I think you may have missed, in replicating Skinner.

Watching your video @ :09, you can see that your wobble plate is attached to the input shaft by a ball joint that allows it to stay horizontal to the ground at all times regardless of the angle of the input shaft.

If you watch the original Skinner video, @ :28, you can see that the wobble plate changes angle as the input shaft tilts and remains perpendicular to the input shaft at all times. @ :29 you can see the setscrew that holds the wobble plate to the input shaft. You can also see the input shaft spinning as the machine starts up @ :36.

I think this is a critical part of the design as the angle of the wobble plate is what creates the condition that allows the top weight to always be falling down hill.


Looking forward to seeing more videos and watching your progress.


John

[armandino]

Elliptic rotation

To Aaron

I understood your comments and thank you for valuable tips and I have concluded that I will apply an elliptical motion precisely in primary drive motor-pinion replacing the pinion with a pair of elliptical crowns wheel used on bike with its chain drive. It will be seen later on the result.