Series Wound Bifilar Coil a Doorway for Dielectric Influx?

[Bob Smith]

I'd like to start this thread to discuss the relationship between the series-wound bifilar coil and the dielectric medium.

Many cite the swbf coil's mutual cancellation of fields and increased capacitance (as well as increased voltage, minimized current). This is documented by Tesla regarding the swbf pancake coil in his patent for electromagnets. Tesla Patent 512,340 - Coil for Electro-Magnets

At the same time, its oppositely wound windings attract one another, and there arises increased magnetic constriction between them, which means increased magneto-dielectric interaction. Somehow, then, the swbf coil produces an entry point for the dielectric's influx into a pulsed electrical system.

Would anyone like to explore this relationship between the swbf coil and dielectric further?
Bob

[BroMikey]

I been looking for this Patent

I'd like to start this thread to discuss the relationship between the series-wound bifilar coil and the dielectric medium.

Many cite the swbf coil's mutual cancellation of fields and increased capacitance (as well as increased voltage, minimized current). This is documented by Tesla regarding the swbf pancake coil in his patent for electromagnets. Tesla Patent 512,340 - Coil for Electro-Magnets

At the same time, its oppositely wound windings attract one another, and there arises increased magnetic constriction between them, which means increased magneto-dielectric interaction. Somehow, then, the swbf coil produces an entry point for the dielectric's influx into a pulsed electrical system.

Would anyone like to explore this relationship between the swbf coil and dielectric further?
Bob

Thanks Bob

Telsa has hundreds and hundreds of patents and I been wondering where this one where self induction is talked about. I guess I have never reallt researched this stuff yet.

My goodness everybody has seen the pancake coil. The way I understood the video, this equal and opposite force created between coils lowers impedance that give rise to many good changes in the inductors that are unknown to modern science.

Mike

[Bob Smith]

Hi Bob , things seem a bit quite , so I'll say that I like the " Tesla coil for electro-magnets " , plenty of potential ; oops , I really do like it .

But I would like to say something about a very simple coil that is not a coil ,mmm or is it ? When I was rather young I was in the care of a Man named Vern and it was at his place of work where he was a senoir technician there . He knew I was interested in electrical things , so he showed me what he did to test a telecom line to see how far out the line was from his test station .
He had this big round meter in front of him and told me that when he pushed the switch , it would connect the exchange 50 volt battery to the line he was testing , which he did . He then said watch the meter ! He then flicked the switch off and the meter pointer jumped up about half way , he said , ah the line is only 10 miles out . Seems it had to go further .

This did'nt seem all that interesting to me at the time , now it does ! Such a simple device that does something so incredible . It was a " dark energy " longwire tap with an earth return and dear old Vern had no idea what a wonderful thing he used in the course of his work . That pulse on a 10 mile copper line would have been one hell of a return pulse . All he needed would be a diode and a capacitor bank ---- Free energy . It's really that simple .

Thanks for this Jacqui
It sounds like your friend Vern was picking up dark energy in the form of a bemf backspike following his 50V pulse. Here's something interesting for you to consider: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post262382 In both cases, the energy seems to be coming from the ground, but is it? Is it more accurate to say that it's coming from the dielectric medium?

When we look at the series-wound bifilar coil, the mutual attraction between opposite windings raises the inter-winding capacitance. But is this all it does? Does the intensified magnetic interaction between the windings not also provide an entry point for a greater influx of the dielectric into the system? In this sense then, does the voltage spike and the series-wound bifilar coil share a common characteristic in their ability to set the conditions for dielectric entry into an electrical system - in the voltage spike case, in the form of BEMF, and in the swbf coil case, in its inter-winding magnetic forces of attraction? Can we perhaps see a more obvious overlap between the two when we pulse the swbf coil with high voltage? What kind of discharge will the coil give us?

Perhaps this is something worthy of further discussion.
Bob

[Bob Smith]

Thanks Bob

Telsa has hundreds and hundreds of patents and I been wondering where this one where self induction is talked about. I guess I have never reallt researched this stuff yet.

My goodness everybody has seen the pancake coil. The way I understood the video, this equal and opposite force created between coils lowers impedance that give rise to many good changes in the inductors that are unknown to modern science.

Mike

Thanks for the reply Mike
The series-wound bifilar coil is kind of neat because although an inductor, it functions also as a capacitor of sorts. It is said to produce scalar impulses (longitudinal vectors) among other interesting phenomena. Is there a way to show that its topology enables it to interact with the dielectric medium when pulsed, moreso than an ordinary coil?
Bob

[BroMikey]

Showing it's interaction

Thanks for the reply Mike
The series-wound bifilar coil is kind of neat because although an inductor, it functions also as a capacitor of sorts. It is said to produce scalar impulses (longitudinal vectors) among other interesting phenomena. Is there a way to show that its topology enables it to interact with the dielectric medium when pulsed, moreso than an ordinary coil?
Bob

You are quite welcome Sir

Wading out into uncharted waters is my delight. Of course we are all well acquainted with this geometric shape as a coil. I have witnessed many live experiments on the YOUTUBE channel and never that I am aware of hooked it up in this manner to get a higher COP.

Many thousands of these tests all show practically the same thing.

Can I do any better than they all? Well that is a good question, wouldn't you say?

Also I might add that ALL coils have capacitance as well as the next so why should this coil be any different? More or less effects for that given capacitance depending on the frequencies that the coil is operated at.

Mike

[Bob Smith]

You are quite welcome Sir

Wading out into uncharted waters is my delight. Of course we are all well acquainted with this geometric shape as a coil. I have witnessed many live experiments on the YOUTUBE channel and never that I am aware of hooked it up in this manner to get a higher COP.

Many thousands of these tests all show practically the same thing.

Can I do any better than they all? Well that is a good question, wouldn't you say?

Also I might add that ALL coils have capacitance as well as the next so why should this coil be any different? More or less effects for that given capacitance depending on the frequencies that the coil is operated at.

Mike

Hey Mike,
Some food for thought from the man himself (Tesla):

Let it be assumed that the terminals of this coil show a potential
difference of one hundred volts, and that there are one thousand
convolutions; then considering
any two contiguous points on adjacent convolutions let it be assumed
that there will exist between them a potential difference of one-
tenth of a volt. If now, as shown in Figure 2, a conductor B be wound
parallel with the conductor A and insulated from it,
and the end of A be connected with the starting pointof B, the
aggregate length of the two conductors being such that the assumed
number of convolutions or turns
is the same, viz., one thousand, then the potential difference
between any two points in A and B will be fifty volts, and as the
capacity effect is proportionate to the square of this difference,
the energy stored in the coil as a whole will now be two hundred and
fifty thousand as great.

Some interesting notes on bifi coils from Yahoo Tesla Research Group. I don't have time to read it right now, but it looks interesting:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...ons/topics/582
Bob

[wantomake]

Curious

Bob,
Just curious, does a trifilar coil have even higher capacitance than a bifilar coil if connected in series?

Thanks,
wantomake
PS: Just read some of the Tesla Research group site, and flat spiral coils is what Tesla was referring to . Not twisted bifilar or trifilar coils as I thought. Wow. I'm just a student at this and see much more to experiment and learn.

[wayne.ct]

Coil configurations

In this conjunction, Bedini has many coil configurations with eight or more wires in a bundle, the bundle being wound into a "super" coil, if you want to use that phrase.

It is obvious that disciples of Bedini have high expectations as they do their various experiments. What is the principle behind this? Is it the effect of the capacitance between the windings? Remember that the Tesla multiplying transformer has additional space between the windings to REDUCE the capacitance between the windings. All these factors are so-called independent variables while we search for the configuration that will result in the best COP. The COP is the dependent variable.

Everybody is so cagey here. Still, I think there has to be something special about multiple windings. That is where I have been doing some experiments. Good luck!

[Bob Smith]

Bob,
Just curious, does a trifilar coil have even higher capacitance than a bifilar coil if connected in series?

Thanks,
wantomake
PS: Just read some of the Tesla Research group site, and flat spiral coils is what Tesla was referring to . Not twisted bifilar or trifilar coils as I thought. Wow. I'm just a student at this and see much more to experiment and learn.

Hey Wantomake
Good question. Can't honestly say I know what a third coil (or 4th etc) would do. However I'm sure others have. Here's link to a quadfilar coil experiment done by a fellow that goes by the names Allen Burgess and Synchro1. Worth the watch, I think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XMf...wQS9t6BaHeDOqE
That one's on my list of things to do with a coil of intercom wire I have waiting...
Thanks for the comments.
Bob

[Bob Smith]

In this conjunction, Bedini has many coil configurations with eight or more wires in a bundle, the bundle being wound into a "super" coil, if you want to use that phrase.

It is obvious that disciples of Bedini have high expectations as they do their various experiments. What is the principle behind this? Is it the effect of the capacitance between the windings? Remember that the Tesla multiplying transformer has additional space between the windings to REDUCE the capacitance between the windings. All these factors are so-called independent variables while we search for the configuration that will result in the best COP. The COP is the dependent variable.

Everybody is so cagey here. Still, I think there has to be something special about multiple windings. That is where I have been doing some experiments. Good luck!

Heh Heh Cagey - no argument there. But there are clues dropped on a regular basis, and sometimes it only takes one small key piece of info to open a new door to a new vista where things re-arrange and seeming unrelated factors take on meaning in relationships that make perfect sense from a new perspective.

Something to think about is the whole thing about a swbifi coil, an inductor, behaving as a capacitor. At the same time, there is some serious interaction with the dielectric realm between windings, and it would seem this interaction is accentuated when the swbifi is shorted. So perhaps the doorway for influx from the diectric is opened even wider when the series wound coils are doubled or quadrupled in size.

That's a little gem of info, and I'm glad you shared it. One more piece of the puzzle. I've also come across some stuff on negative resistance that may have some relation to all this as well - need to read more still.
All the best.
Bob

[wantomake]

New Doors

Thanks Bob,
Good video and interesting too. I'm glad he tried his setup in a remote location,
because when my first coils were picking up voltage from the aether I thought cool it's true. But found the fluorescent lights in the shop was the cause of the false readings.

But I really like this subject of study. I have seen and studied the video on the "lockridge device" and am very interested in the coil that is placed around the motor generator case. I've built one to test the input and possible high voltage output. It is a trifilar twisted coil and 200 or so wraps with a copper capacitor wrapped around it . Maybe I tested incorrectly but, got very little capacitance out of both coil and capacitor.

So reading and studying Tesla coils has me thinking maybe the pancake type winding or some variation may work much better.

Yes new doors to open and explore,
Not cagey I think, or are we
wantomake

[Bob Smith]

Thanks Bob,
Good video and interesting too. I'm glad he tried his setup in a remote location,
because when my first coils were picking up voltage from the aether I thought cool it's true. But found the fluorescent lights in the shop was the cause of the false readings.

But I really like this subject of study. I have seen and studied the video on the "lockridge device" and am very interested in the coil that is placed around the motor generator case. I've built one to test the input and possible high voltage output. It is a trifilar twisted coil and 200 or so wraps with a copper capacitor wrapped around it . Maybe I tested incorrectly but, got very little capacitance out of both coil and capacitor.

So reading and studying Tesla coils has me thinking maybe the pancake type winding or some variation may work much better.

Yes new doors to open and explore,
Not cagey I think, or are we
wantomake

Hi wantomake
Sounds like you've got some neat ideas percolating. Hope you can find time to try them out and share your results. One thing I figured out on Tito Oracion's thread over at OU was a kind of wire capacitor - basically taking 2 wires and twisting them together, then joining the end of wire B to beginning of wire B. Tito maintains this is a more reliable alternative to the cap - at least for his purposes, if I understand him correctly. I recently saw someone doing something similar somewhere, but can't remember where.
Time to watch a movie with the missus
Bob

[Bob Smith]

Allen Burgess'/Synchro1's Quadfilar thread:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...k-battery.html

[BroMikey]

Good Reading and Math

Hey Mike,
Some food for thought from the man himself (Tesla):

Some interesting notes on bifi coils from Yahoo Tesla Research Group. I don't have time to read it right now, but it looks interesting:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...ons/topics/582
Bob

Thanks Bob

A lot of great math figures. Did one of those guys actually show any kind of and experiment on youtube where you can see them and not just speculate that they are really turning coils of some kind?

Tesla did a good job giving us a mathematical value of 1/10th, these generalities are actual, relative to many conductors and shows the power of these coils.

I wonder if Tesla wrote that these higher values in coils were not reached if windings were permitted to multiply flux by induction to their max values?

I am wondering if this Tesla "Quote" applied to all coils or was this only mentioned for coils that canceled out self induction thereby lower impedance to receive these extra energies?

Tesla did mention the fig? Was that fig. a pancake coil? I am not sure if the fig was a special coil. Maybe any set of coils work if connected as specified.

Great brain tease I am looking for common denominators and we all know coils are significant when we want to collect and accumulate extra energy. Maybe even store if for awhile as long as we can rake some of those joules in.

Mike

[Farmhand]

Bob,
Just curious, does a trifilar coil have even higher capacitance than a bifilar coil if connected in series?

Thanks,
wantomake
PS: Just read some of the Tesla Research group site, and flat spiral coils is what Tesla was referring to . Not twisted bifilar or trifilar coils as I thought. Wow. I'm just a student at this and see much more to experiment and learn.

1) If you read the patent it says it applies to ""all coils", but the effect would
not be seen in twisted conductor coils as the potential difference is
constantly changed due to the twists. Written right in the patent "All coils".

So the "Tesla Research Group" Are either not doing their research or they are
actively diss informing people. Either - or. That's a Fact. Proof below.

Patent Coil For Electro-Magnets
Patent US512340 - Nikola tesla - Google Patents

Line 32 to line 38 of the PDF version of the Patent.

I would here state that by the term coils I desire to include
generally helices, solenoids, or, in fact, any conductor the different parts of
which by the requirements of its application or use are brought into such
relations with each other as to materially increase the self-induction.

2) The "capacity" of the coil meaning it's ability to store energy is different to
it's "self capacitance", very different. Very important point for this patent.

He uses "capacity" to describe both (in a way).

3) A trifilar wound then series connected coil would have less potential
between it's adjacent turns than a bifilar wound then series connected coil, I think.

4) If the voltage used is not high enough for the "plate gap" of the
capacitor formed by the adjacent turns, then no effect of any useful
magnitude will be seen as far as increased "capacity" or "storage ability"
is concerned. (similar to trying to use a parallel plate air capacitor with
a 10 mm gap and 300 pF as a capacitor for 10 volts, it won't hold much
energy). But for 1000's of volts it will hold a decent amount of energy.

So if the voltage used is not high enough to make use of the plate
distance (gap between conductors) then the capacitance doesn't come
into play so much.

2. A coil composed of contiguous or
adjacent insulated conductors electrically connected
in series and having a potential difference
of such value as to give to the coil as
a whole, a capacity sufficient to neutralize its
self-induction, as set forth.

5) All energy stored in the coil is transferred from the supply, just like any
other coil. No one can show any different.

6) Twisting the conductors in multifilar coils then series connecting them
will increase the inductance when the windings are connected together
as does any coils inductance increase with more turns and wire, however
the "capacity" Tesla speaks of is related to the potential difference
between adjacent turns, which twisting randomizes, a twisted coil is not
making a coil as Tesla describes in the patent and will not secure the results
the patent describes. The "self capacitance" is not the "capacity" of the coil.
The "capacity" of the coil is how much energy it can store.

7) The coil does exactly as Tesla claims it does in the Patent.

What I claim as my invention is.
1.A coil for electric apparatus the adjacent
convolutions o'f which form parts of the
circuit between which there exists a potential
difference sufficient to secure in the coil a capacity
capable of neutralizing its self-induction,
as hereinbefore described.
2. A coil composed of contiguous or adjacent
insulated conductors electrically connected
in series and having a potential difference of
such value as to give to the coil as
a whole, a capacity sufficient to neutralize its
self-induction, as set forth.

So you see if the Patent is read, and understood, then all mystery disappears.

..