Basic Free Energy Device

[dragon]

Sounds interesting Matt, let us know how it does....

You might be interested in this as well although it's off the path of your original....

Driving the inverter directly from the battery, rectifying the output to charge a cap... drive a load from the HV DC to charge another cap, buck that energy back down to the battery. It worked very well right up until the charging cap went over 40 volts and the buck "bucked"...

My original test with this set up used a 10 watt LED bulb, the non dimmable type with an internal switching circuit. Once the charge cap reached 55 volts the bulb would fire directly into the battery - all the neg's were common(battery, inverter and both HV caps) where the one shown isolates the battery circuit, the bulb simply bridged the charge cap to the battery pos. This was quite interesting because I ran a 10 watt load to control charge to the cap and a 10 watt load to pulse the battery, the watt meter never rose above 10 watts. The charge back bulb would run for 30 seconds at a time depleting the charge turn off then back on .

The second load didn't cost anything to drive it and charge the battery. A very interesting build. I'd like to work toward maintaining both caps at a level where the potential differences remain fairly stable. This puts the inverter into a low power idle then run only the load on the battery charge side. We'll see where it ends up I guess...

.Food for thought if nothing else...

[dragon]

The above diagram appears to work reasonably well although I haven't been able to test the overall charging to the battery. It would appear to require a stable balancing of what the inverter is outputting and the draw on the second cap to return the charge to the battery.

An MPPT charge controller in place of the buck would give the overall control needed to maintain a balance. The controller tracks maximum power and adjusts it's output determined by it's input. I found one that was inexpensive enough to give it a shot and has a maximum of 100 volt input which shouldn't cause any problems.

https://smile.amazon.com/Tracer-Trac...rge+controller

If it proves this could actually work then great, if not, I have a multitude of projects where the controller can be used - so either way I can come out ahead.

As it's said... "nothing ventured, nothing gained....."

[Turion]

Dragon,
Thanks for all your hard work on this. It is great to see someone actually building this stuff and doing measurements!!!

[dragon]

Thanks Turion, it seems there is only the sound of crickets in the background as of late -

While waiting for the MPPT, a past project has been resurrected. To be honest it was never thought to be anything more than a novelty for extending the run time of JT circuits. It appears I was being a bit short sited...

Over the last couple days it's shown me that it might be possible to bring it up into a power level that would provide a useful output, although, as the output power goes up so do the challenges. However, it does meet the criteria of my end goal.

The picture shows a small Hartley circuit driving a 120v 3watt LED bulb utilizing a switch circuit to drain one bank and charge the next - when one bank is charged it can be switched back to reverse the process. I had never done any real measuring of the circuit - simply running it for days on end to see how long it would last...

To my surprise it was returning 74% of the energy... really close to my 80% acceptable range. So to put that into perspective if you were running a 10ah load, 7.5 ah is being returned, effectively running a 10 amp load with only a 2.5 amp loss. So I'm thinking if I can simply toss a project like this together with little thought with this much return I should be able to surpass the 80% with a little thought.

The circuit diagram is one that I've shared over the years, most recently in Mikey's thread, so once again I'll bring it to light with a little different perspective...

It also lines up with the thoughts that both batteries should be the same capacity and voltage where the difference in potential is relatively low for the highest efficiency in transferring energy between the batteries. There are a few flaws with it as is but the basics are all there....

[DavidE]

dragon

Excellent analysis and clarity of share. Forward!

[dragon]

Thanks DavidE, I don't know why it hadn't occurred to me before, when I saw Matt's ingenious motor mod and started thinking along those terms it was reflected in one of my original circuit posts in an attempt to emulate the motor action with a solid state circuit. Although that did work very well the potential differences kept nagging at me as the returns were smaller than I had hoped for.

Matt probably already has the answers for his goals but I needed to clarify things in my own mind in order to achieve mine. I don't know for sure that this is the answer but it puts me on a path that appears achievable.

[Turion]

Results

Dragon,
Having worked with moving power between potentials for quite some time now, I can honestly say that the smaller the system the more difficult it is to come up with positive results. I started out with Matt's version of the Benitez patents, and went from there.

The boost module and Matt's rewound motor were the design additions to make a small system like this perform where we wanted it to. I haven't had a lot of time working with the inverter, but I know Bob French has, and is using it to great effect with his home solar system. He charges a group of primaries, then runs power from them through his inverter to his secondaries to charge them. Then he runs the inverter off the secondaries while the primaries charge again. It has given him extended run times which he is very happy with, but he too wants MORE and is researching this full time.

He is off the grid and is limited in his data usage so does not post much, but he's out there working full time on this stuff.

I am remodeling my house, adding a two car garage and 30x40 shop, rebuilding a '71 FJ55 Land Cruiser, and helping my mom with a remodel on HER place right down the road, so I do not have a spare minute right now, but I'm watching and check in here every day. The forum page is usually open on my computer 24-7.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, thanks dragon for sharing.
I did save the pic you posted previously on mikeys, splitting the positive thread and that one showed the wiring of the switches better.
It looks like you are using three, 3 way switches or three, double pole-double throw switches.
Normally, when i have tried to use a secondary to power a load and also extract the flyback from primary coil of joule thief, the output of secondary was cut off or not much output resulted.
I wonder if because you are using the boost converter configuration of oscillator, that may be the reason you are getting also good secondary output.
Anyway, i will try this setup at some point.
Oh, still waiting for my boost converter.
peace love light
Edit: Dragon, can you share what coil turns ratio you used, primary to secondary, thanks

[dragon]

Hi all, thanks dragon for sharing.
I did save the pic you posted previously on mikeys, splitting the positive thread and that one showed the wiring of the switches better.
It looks like you are using three, 3 way switches or three, double pole-double throw switches.
Normally, when i have tried to use a secondary to power a load and also extract the flyback from primary coil of joule thief, the output of secondary was cut off or not much output resulted.
I wonder if because you are using the boost converter configuration of oscillator, that may be the reason you are getting also good secondary output.
Anyway, i will try this setup at some point.
Oh, still waiting for my boost converter.
peace love light
Edit: Dragon, can you share what coil turns ratio you used, primary to secondary, thanks

The diagram shows the pin outs on the DPDT switch ( just one switch ). A basic on-off-on type switch.

Generally when people try to use the forward momentum (flyback, EMF etc) on this type of circuit they don't provide a complete path through the circuit. If you notice both batteries and coil with the diode form a completed circuit for the current to flow. It's basically the same as a simple boost converter.

The hartley circuit was wound on one of those tiny enclosed cores, I think I purchased them from nebraska surplus. This was built a few years back for low power lighting, unfortunately, I don't know the exact turns, I put one layer of 26 wire on the bobbin, created a center tap there and finished off the second layer for the primary. I filled the bobbin with 32 wire for the secondary.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi dragon, ok thanks.
I have many TV ferrite flyback cores on hand and i've already started winding.
Besides the boost converter configuration we both mentioned.
It could also be, that most of my previous oscillators with secondaries, did not have a high enough turns ratio to allow the on time phase to induce enough voltage in secondary to light an led bulb decent.
I will post any results in the re-emf thread is started, don't want to clutter this one further.
peace love light

[dragon]

Dragon,
Having worked with moving power between potentials for quite some time now, I can honestly say that the smaller the system the more difficult it is to come up with positive results. I started out with Matt's version of the Benitez patents, and went from there.

The boost module and Matt's rewound motor were the design additions to make a small system like this perform where we wanted it to. I haven't had a lot of time working with the inverter, but I know Bob French has, and is using it to great effect with his home solar system. He charges a group of primaries, then runs power from them through his inverter to his secondaries to charge them. Then he runs the inverter off the secondaries while the primaries charge again. It has given him extended run times which he is very happy with, but he too wants MORE and is researching this full time.

He is off the grid and is limited in his data usage so does not post much, but he's out there working full time on this stuff.

I am remodeling my house, adding a two car garage and 30x40 shop, rebuilding a '71 FJ55 Land Cruiser, and helping my mom with a remodel on HER place right down the road, so I do not have a spare minute right now, but I'm watching and check in here every day. The forum page is usually open on my computer 24-7.

I think Matt, Bob and yourself are after something much bigger than my modest 10 amp goal. I realize the higher the Ah rating of the battery tends to remove a lot of the complications but the small set ups offers quick results (good or bad) and are easily set up and torn down.

I'll most likely build several more of these before I settle in on final design, then a few more working upward in power.

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Hey guys,

I should have another Razor Scooter motor to modify today (UPS), and a part for my other one is coming from Dave Bowling, so maybe next week I'll have two of Matt's motors to test with. Also, I am expecting a rotor for a setup mimicking Dave's generator soon.

Wistiti, I want to get away from solid-state components because I can't fix them and don't feel confident in checking them to find a problem when the system goes down, although I am pretty sure about things when I see smoke coming out of one. lol

I was using a Boost Module with the inverter because the potential difference dropped so fast that the inverter couldn't function. But this only happens on a small system. My large solar battery bank is big enough that the inverter has no problem at all until the solar panels RAISE the voltage above of the inverter's range. At night, the charging batteries may go up into the 15Vs while the 24V set is sitting at 25.8V and then my refrigerator kicks on and pulls the potential difference below 10V. Other than that, it works fine.

I said that to say that a larger system doesn't need a Boost Module to run an inverter between the positives. My plans are to do this and use two Bedini 2A12-EX battery chargers plugged into the inverter to keep the two Primaries up. We'll see. If that works, then we'll have to see how much more we can pull off the inverter -all of which would be free.

I was positively impressed with running a transformer in series with a motor between the positives of the 3BGS. It didn't seem to adversely affect the overall performance. I was easily able to produce 30V to over 100V DC, but just putting that to the batteries doesn't work. It needs to go to a cap and dumped at 2-3 volts over the Primary. I was getting there until I did something that blew the cap dump that Carroll built for me. I'll need his help to fix it. (damn solid-state...just kidding)

I have tried using a Zener to control the gate of a SCR and dump a cap, but the SCR seems to remain latched and the voltage of the cap just keeps rising. I'm guessing that the incoming high voltage from the transformer is doing this. I have used this arrangement before, but I guess the incoming voltage was always lower than the Zener value. Any suggestions?

Good luck,

Bob

[Wistiti]

Thank you Bob for the reply!
Does some one here have some cap dump schematic to share? It can also be mecanic one...
Thanks !

[Matthew Jones]

Hey guys,

I should have another Razor Scooter motor to modify today (UPS), and a part for my other one is coming from Dave Bowling, so maybe next week I'll have two of Matt's motors to test with. Also, I am expecting a rotor for a setup mimicking Dave's generator soon.

Wistiti, I want to get away from solid-state components because I can't fix them and don't feel confident in checking them to find a problem when the system goes down, although I am pretty sure about things when I see smoke coming out of one. lol

I was using a Boost Module with the inverter because the potential difference dropped so fast that the inverter couldn't function. But this only happens on a small system. My large solar battery bank is big enough that the inverter has no problem at all until the solar panels RAISE the voltage above of the inverter's range. At night, the charging batteries may go up into the 15Vs while the 24V set is sitting at 25.8V and then my refrigerator kicks on and pulls the potential difference below 10V. Other than that, it works fine.

I said that to say that a larger system doesn't need a Boost Module to run an inverter between the positives. My plans are to do this and use two Bedini 2A12-EX battery chargers plugged into the inverter to keep the two Primaries up. We'll see. If that works, then we'll have to see how much more we can pull off the inverter -all of which would be free.

I was positively impressed with running a transformer in series with a motor between the positives of the 3BGS. It didn't seem to adversely affect the overall performance. I was easily able to produce 30V to over 100V DC, but just putting that to the batteries doesn't work. It needs to go to a cap and dumped at 2-3 volts over the Primary. I was getting there until I did something that blew the cap dump that Carroll built for me. I'll need his help to fix it. (damn solid-state...just kidding)

I have tried using a Zener to control the gate of a SCR and dump a cap, but the SCR seems to remain latched and the voltage of the cap just keeps rising. I'm guessing that the incoming high voltage from the transformer is doing this. I have used this arrangement before, but I guess the incoming voltage was always lower than the Zener value. Any suggestions?

Good luck,

Bob

As long as current is flowing to an SCR the SCR will stay on. SCR is not a good choice for a cap dump.

Matt

[dragon]

Thank you Bob for the reply!
Does some one here have some cap dump schematic to share? It can also be mecanic one...
Thanks !

This is a shunt regulator which could be re-purposed as a cap dump circuit. Generally used to dump energy without allowing a load ( like a wind turbine ) to run free - always loaded. I've built a few of these long ago and they work exceptionally well.