Basic Free Energy Device

[Sawt2]

It's been a while since i posted anything, i'd like to give a little update, I came across the 3bgs thread quite a few years ago, i experimented with it for quite some time, i realized that being able to rotate the batteries on the fly was definitely the way to go. 2 1/2 years ago I set out to come up with a way to do that, i finished building it late last Sunday. So today i got to try it out, it did not work at first so the batteries took a little bit of a beating until I figured out the problem, one of my batteries must have an internal short, the voltage tests fine but as soon as i tried to rotate them, the voltage would go to almost nothing. So after several hours of testing everything i got another battery out and it started working just fine. After getting it to work i ran my modified pulse motor between the positives, the batteries are just too small for that motor. So I ran my sg between the positives for about 2 hrs, rotating the batteries every so often, the 3 batteries almost came back up to where they had started earlier in the day. After disconnecting them, all three recovered to within .08 volts of there starting voltage, i will see tomorrow where they come to rest. My three batteries are 12v 2.9 ah, my sg pulls about 150 ma, and the charge battery on the sg is a partially sulfated 33ah 12v which i have been working on for sometime. Tha charge battery came up about .11 volts during the 2 hr. I want to run some more tests but I am pretty sure bigger batteries would make a difference. I also want to add the boost converter and my modified pulse meter into the mix. I want to try the inverter between the positives too. Now that i have a way to rotate the batteries on the go i believe testing will be much more productive. I want to send a big thank you again to Dave/Turion for sharing this info in the first place and to matt for the info on the modified motor. As I was about to stop typing i remembered, during the runtime, i was also trying different things on the battery that was in the number 3 position, an led taillight, a small 24v motor with pwm and a regular 12v taillight bulb. Can't say yet if it made much difference but i do know that all that energy used didn't seem to "cost" anymore. I will know better in time. That's it for now.

I went out to the shop this morning and rechecked the voltages and batt 1 lost .02 volt, batt 2 lost .03 volt and batt 3 was sitting exactly what it started at yesterday. That means after 2 hrs of a constant pull of 150 ma and about 6 hrs of various usage trying to figure out why it wouldn't work, running motors and loghts that pull way to much for these little batteries, it only "cost" .05 volts. I am hoping to test somemore soon, i will continue using the same batteries for now just to see what I can get out of them. Hope ya'll have a great Labor Day.

[Turion]

Yes!

blackchisel97,
If you can post that battery swapping circuit, that would beget. I'm sure there are some folks who could use it.

[blackchisel97]

Sure, no problem. I haven't built this circuit and can't provide any feedback regarding code or operation but as far as I remember, it has been built and tried by someone on this forum.

V

[BroMikey]

Sure, no problem. I haven't built this circuit and can't provide any feedback regarding code or operation but as far as I remember, it has been built and tried by someone on this forum.

V

Thanks "V" Got it.

[Sawt2]

I went out to the shop this morning and rechecked the voltages and batt 1 lost .02 volt, batt 2 lost .03 volt and batt 3 was sitting exactly what it started at yesterday. That means after 2 hrs of a constant pull of 150 ma and about 6 hrs of various usage trying to figure out why it wouldn't work, running motors and loghts that pull way to much for these little batteries, it only "cost" .05 volts. I am hoping to test somemore soon, i will continue using the same batteries for now just to see what I can get out of them. Hope ya'll have a great Labor Day.

Well I was able to get approx an hour and half runtime in today. I rotated the batteries every 8 minutes +/-, after eight hour rest time the voltages show just .04 volts less than starting voltage.

[John_K]

Voltage Sensing Circuit

I think what you will find with the above circuit is that the voltage sensing part of the circuit is all referenced to ground.

The issue is that with the 3 battery switch, the first battery's negative is not at the same "ground" as batteries 2 & 3. If you're using the ADC of a PIC for the voltage sensing, it will work fine for batteries 2 & 3 if your PIC ground is on the negatives of batteries 2 & 3, but you'll have to be creative to get a reasonably accurate voltage reading of battery 1.

When Bits and I were working on the Tesla Switch we ran into that problem, but we did find a solution for it. He went on to use the same logic for the battery swapper he had at the time.

John K.

[Turion]

Concern

I see that people are spending in incredible about of time trying to measure what is going on with the 3 battery system. I wish there were some way to keep all of you from WASTING your time.

1. It is only going to work correctly with large, deep cycle batteries.
2. It is only going to work if you rotate the batteries
3. It is only going to work if you are PULSING battery 3
4. If the load is too big for the size of the batteries you are using you are DOOMED before you flip the on switch
5. It is NOT going to run forever!!!!!!!!!! There are losses in the system. If you don't figure out a way to make the 'load' that you are pulsing between the positives produce some extra energy you can dump back into the system from time to time, the batteries are GOING to run down.

Those are the facts.

Step 1. is get some BIG deep cycle batteries
Step 2. is build a battery rotating circuit
Step 3. figure out what load you are going to run that will produce some power, and how to get it to battery 3

[Matthew Jones]

I think what you will find with the above circuit is that the voltage sensing part of the circuit is all referenced to ground.

The issue is that with the 3 battery switch, the first battery's negative is not at the same "ground" as batteries 2 & 3. If you're using the ADC of a PIC for the voltage sensing, it will work fine for batteries 2 & 3 if your PIC ground is on the negatives of batteries 2 & 3, but you'll have to be creative to get a reasonably accurate voltage reading of battery 1.

When Bits and I were working on the Tesla Switch we ran into that problem, but we did find a solution for it. He went on to use the same logic for the battery swapper he had at the time.

John K.

The most solid way is to use Isolated ADC's. Toshiba makes few that are reliable in high noise areas. Anyway you can build a module per battery or battery set. Each module can be independently switched on and off using an SPI enabled Power distribution switch(PDS). The PDS will turn the power on to the ADC module and the ADC will broadcast on 1 line isolated from the battery. So 4 pins total from your pic. Best part no power consumed monitoring when you don't need to.
Sounds complicated till you get your first one done then its the only way to go.

Matt

[John_K]

The most solid way is to use Isolated ADC's. Toshiba makes few that are reliable in high noise areas. Anyway you can build a module per battery or battery set. Each module can be independently switched on and off using an SPI enabled Power distribution switch(PDS). The PDS will turn the power on to the ADC module and the ADC will broadcast on 1 line isolated from the battery. So 4 pins total from your pic. Best part no power consumed monitoring when you don't need to.
Sounds complicated till you get your first one done then its the only way to go.

Matt

Thanks Matt, I didn't know those things existed. I'll do some research in that area and see if I can find the device you mentioned.

John K.

[Matthew Jones]

Thanks Matt, I didn't know those things existed. I'll do some research in that area and see if I can find the device you mentioned.

John K.

https://www.silabs.com/Support%20Doc...Si8900-1-2.pdf

This is an Isolated SPI enabled ADC

http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resour...CD00238344.pdf

This is a Power distribution switch for digital or analog signals. Also SPI enabled.

Although in the past I used individual modules per battery I see now you can use one ADC module and use a power distribution switch to select the battery you want to read. Both the ADC and PDS can be communicated with via SPI on different channels. So essentially that would leave you using only 2 pins.

Call me a nerd but I am really glad I talked to David today and pointed the Data Sheets out to him. Lots of problems have just been solved.

Matt

PS this a brief on the SPI library for Microchips pic.
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/spi.pdf

[Turion]

Matt,
See, that's where knowing nothing has its advantages. You're always explaining things to me and then you figure out cool stuff! LOL. That's why you gotta keep us guys who don't know anything around. We keep crap stirred up.



Dave

[automan]

Spi

IIRC Arduinos' have SPI onboard. I have plenty (50) of Arduino Nano 3.0's w/o pins if anybody needs any contact me by PM. Greets Dave...Hows that fussy 3D printer working these days? Call me sometime eh?

[Turion]

OH automan!

The 3d printer still has the overheat warning. Because I haven't changed out that print head yet. With all the medical crap, I just haven't gotten to it. Recovering from KNEE surgery now. Once that is done I believe I have fixed every damn thing they have been able to find wrong with me. Going to AZ for a week, so maybe by the time I get back I will have recovered to the point I can go out in the garage and actually WORK on something, instead of sitting on my butt, whining.

I have at least ten different projects on my benches, and still have $$ put aside for another 3D printer, if I don't lose it playing craps in Laughlin on the way to AZ or the way back. (I've lost the last four times I played, which is a record for me. Never lost more than 3 times in a row in my life.) All the parts for the printer are already HERE. Benn buying parts every month. Just need to buy the frame. Wonder where I can get THAT? LOL.

Dave

[Sawt2]

IIRC Arduinos' have SPI onboard. I have plenty (50) of Arduino Nano 3.0's w/o pins if anybody needs any contact me by PM. Greets Dave...Hows that fussy 3D printer working these days? Call me sometime eh?

Automan
Not familiar with arduino. what do you mean without pins?

[automan]

The Arduino Nanos' come with long header pins usually, so you can use them on a breadboard or add small connector wires to them easily. I have the model without the extra pins added, more for use by developers who wish to mount them permanently or in a small case, which I also have if needed.