Basic Free Energy Device

[Mario]

Sawt2, it just means that a square wave is driving the switching device.

V: I always let the coil and the various parameters tell me what the correct frequency and duty cycle is for a given situation. I've spent years playing with self triggered solid state SG's, so when you watch it on the scope after a while you know what the best charge and discharge timing is for a given coil. Right now it's running in the 2Khz area but that doesn't mean anything with respect to your setup since you're not running the same wire size, windindings, core type, batteries, etc…
I run my setup from a signal generator with variable frequency and duty cycle, this way I avoid having to have a trigger winding.

Mario

[blackchisel97]

Sawt2, it just means that a square wave is driving the switching device.

V: I always let the coil and the various parameters tell me what the correct frequency and duty cycle is for a given situation. I've spent years playing with self triggered solid state SG's, so when you watch it on the scope after a while you know what the best charge and discharge timing is for a given coil. Right now it's running in the 2Khz area but that doesn't mean anything with respect to your setup since you're not running the same wire size, windindings, core type, batteries, etc…
I run my setup from a signal generator with variable frequency and duty cycle, this way I avoid having to have a trigger winding.

Mario

Same here, just being curious. I have a scope hooked up as well.

Thanks
V

[Sawt2]

Sawt2, it just means that a square wave is driving the switching device.



Mario

I see.
Thank you

[blackchisel97]

@Mario

I hooked up my setup the same way as yours and probed across Batt3 with and without the diode. All those spikes which I have without are gone with diode connected from Batt3 neg. to the positive of 24V bank and the output to the load decreases. What am I missing here (beside the spikes LOL)?
I found my freq. range with ferrite core about 650Hz is what gives best charging, highest output to the load and return to the primaries.
Still, the load is quite small at the moment to be considered even half decent.
More tweaking required.
Scope shot taken across Batt3 without a diode.

Update: never mind my comment regarding the diode. Your circuit works good. I used better diode HFA16PB120 and increased the load which gives better return to the primary batt's. Also, went back to iron core and adjusted freq to 250Hz which gives higher output to the load. I paralleled both secondary windings so there is a 1:1 ratio between primaries and secondary. This also slightly increased output to the load (16W LED array). I'll keep working on it as there is probably much more to improve.


V

[Mario]

V, I think with diode you don't see the spikes because they're absorbed by the battery. Using the same switching with a solid state SG circuit, the spikes I see across the switching device are quite higher with regards to having it this way, so it must be the setup, but they are still there.
Be careful not to blow your device if you run it without diode, lol!

Mario

[blackchisel97]

V, I think with diode you don't see the spikes because they're absorbed by the battery. Using the same switching with a solid state SG circuit, the spikes I see across the switching device are quite higher with regards to having it this way, so it must be the setup, but they are still there.
Be careful not to blow your device if you run it without diode, lol!

Mario

Hi Mario,

Yes, you're right. I was just curious why they manifest on large scale without the diode. My load was brighter too. With a diode they're funneled in one direction, instead of bouncing all over the place. Easy to get something fried.
Those spikes are quite big and I had to scroll my scope view to see their tops, despite x10 probe. I still need to find at least one more large battery as my fourth is much smaller than the rest.

This may be a step backwards in solid state version but I'm tempted to try mechanical switching for 3 coil setup. One set of brushes and commutator rotated with small, low draw variable speed DC motor. It may not show anything significant but I don't like to ignore any of my persistent thoughts
The main thing is to switch at as little as possible cost, current draw - wise.
What is your take on such idea?

Thanks
V

[Sawt2]

This may be a step backwards in solid state version but I'm tempted to try mechanical switching for 3 coil setup. One set of brushes and commutator rotated with small, low draw variable speed DC motor. It may not show anything significant but I don't like to ignore any of my persistent thoughts
The main thing is to switch at as little as possible cost, current draw - wise.
What is your take on such idea?

Thanks
V[/QUOTE]

V
Not sure on how it would work with Mario's 3 coil setup, but if you have an idea of how to do it.I would encourage you to go with your persistent thought and give it a try. Not being well versed in electronics i have designed and built a mechanical switching device for the 3 battery setup (Turion/Dave), still testing but preliminary results are extremely encouraging, under load the batteries tend to hold there voltage right around .1 to .2 volts below their standing voltage, then generally within 10-15 minutes after removing the load the batteries return to their starting voltage. At this point (over a 2 week period) I have only done a handful of 1/2 - 1 1/2 hr runs, but the batteries are still at the starting voltage plus i have run my bedini energizer and charged another battery up basically for free. Now for the disclaimer: I am using 2.9 ah batteries, (for the "3" batteries i have 2 each of the 2.9 connected in parallel for a total of six batteries, and my charge battery on the energizer is a 2.9 ah battery) cheap radio shack alligator clips, and using the mechanical switch I rotate the batteries every 50-70 seconds.
I am also in the process of putting a variable speed DC motor on the mechanical switch to experiment with different timing on the battery rotating.

[Turion]

Mechanical switching

Bob French has been experimenting with mechanical switching for several months now and has it down to a science. He is running a small modified Matt motor between the positives in parallel with his coils, and has an exterior commutator on the motor shaft with four brushes. The motor he is using is overkill for turning a commutator, but it does the job. We have talked about modifying one of the tiny RadioShack motors as a pulse motor to accomplish the same thing.

If you put the coils in SERIES with the pulse motor, it pulses the coils. If you put the coils in parallel with the pulse motor then you can use the exterior commutator to get MORE pulses per rotation of the pulse motor. As many as 16 times as many pulses per rotation. Simply connect every other segment on the commutator to the one directly across from it. That gives you four connections times the four brushes or 16 connections per rotation.

[blackchisel97]

V
Not sure on how it would work with Mario's 3 coil setup, but if you have an idea of how to do it.I would encourage you to go with your persistent thought and give it a try.

Hi Sawt2,

I just re drew Mario's circuit, where S1 represents a switch, either solid state (Mosfet triggered from external pulse generator) or mechanical - commutator/slip rings etc.
Mechanical switching has an advantage of very sharp/abrupt rise and fall with many consequences, when comes to harmonics content and collapsing field. This type of switching as well as a spark gap in hv oscillators are hard to mimic with even state of the art semiconductors, due to their internal resistance, delays etc.

V

[Matthew Jones]

Hi Sawt2,

I just re drew Mario's circuit, where S1 represents a switch, either solid state (Mosfet triggered from external pulse generator) or mechanical - commutator/slip rings etc.
Mechanical switching has an advantage of very sharp/abrupt rise and fall with many consequences, when comes to harmonics content and collapsing field. This type of switching as well as a spark gap in hv oscillators are hard to mimic with even state of the art semiconductors, due to their internal resistance, delays etc.

V

Thats not really the truth. That might be the state of individual skills but still that is not the truth when it comes to Fets and IGBT's. Most new ones have the same resistance and voltage drop as couple of feet of wire. LOL and ya'll are winding these coils with plenty of that.
Lag in timing is more to do with the inductor (Coil) than anything and mechanical switching will not change that. Its all math. You wanna big transient spike don't saturate the coil. You want to transform current then you saturate. No matter what you want, Frequency and duty cycle will play a role. How you switch isn't as near important as the capacity of the coil to achieve a certain output.
Thats what has amazed me about this newest setup. What are you really doing? Your using a crude boost circuit. Thats it. Take one them boost circuits we were buying and pull the smoothing caps off of it. 200 khz of spikes flying out of that thing and probably at a better efficiency. LOL

Here, you want some guidance, Measure your coil for henry, then change the numbers in this calculator till you get what you have in the inductor. Now you have the best your gonna get. You can build communtator or use cheap FET and skip the smoothing caps.

https://learn.adafruit.com/diy-boost-calc?view=all

If you can't use micro controller or refuse to try then go with a 555. Here is that calculator.

555 (NE555) Astable Circuit Calculator

Even if you decide to ignore all this please do not act like we live in the early 80's and we have to fight tooth and nail just to drive a simple semi conductor. Take the time to learn how to use a semi conductor as a switch...

Matt

[blackchisel97]

Matt,

I just shared and idea, nothing else. As I said, it may or may not matter in this setup how we switch and your points regarding coil parameters as well as freq and duty cycle are indisputable.
I can calculate 555 in my head but thank you for the link on boost calculator
What am I doing wrong with switching Fet's?

Thanks

V

[Matthew Jones]

Matt,

I just shared and idea, nothing else. As I said, it may or may not matter in this setup how we switch and your points regarding coil parameters as well as freq and duty cycle are indisputable.
I can calculate 555 in my head but thank you for the link on boost calculator
What am I doing wrong with switching Fet's?

Thanks

V

I don't know what your doing wrong... How could I? But if your under the opinion that Fets cannot produce strong on off signals then you must be doing something wrong. I am sure mechanical can do just as much but the dynamic ability to adjust is just not there.

I was just bothered by the statement that semi conductors are somehow inferior, do to delay time and voltage drop, which almost don't exist anymore in a modern semi conductor.

Just my opinion,But a good mosfet switch outperforms a mechanical switch every day of the week just because of its ability to be adjusted quickly.

Matt

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, Hi matt, interesting idea about removing smoothing capacitors on output of boost converter, i had that same thought awhile ago.
I wonder though, if a load isn't connected with the capacitors removed, would the spikes damage the boost converter, maybe a neon should be placed across output just in case.
I think i will try it, can always solder them back on if need be.
peace love light

[Matthew Jones]

Hi all, Hi matt, interesting idea about removing smoothing capacitors on output of boost converter, i had that same thought awhile ago.
I wonder though, if a load isn't connected with the capacitors removed, would the spikes damage the boost converter, maybe a neon should be placed across output just in case.
I think i will try it, can always solder them back on if need be.
peace love light

The spikes might hurt the load but they will not hurt the boost converter as there is a diode to allow them to travel outwards.
Worst case you have solder in some some small caps so the chip that drive the thing will function. .01 PF at 500 volt or something like that. But I do not think that is the case from looking at mine.

Matt

[blackchisel97]

I don't know what your doing wrong... How could I? But if your under the opinion that Fets cannot produce strong on off signals then you must be doing something wrong. I am sure mechanical can do just as much but the dynamic ability to adjust is just not there.

I was just bothered by the statement that semi conductors are somehow inferior, do to delay time and voltage drop, which almost don't exist anymore in a modern semi conductor.

Just my opinion,But a good mosfet switch outperforms a mechanical switch every day of the week just because of its ability to be adjusted quickly.

Matt

Ok, that's the beauty of online communication vs live one.
I thought, you have a problem with my posted diagram and the side/way of switching... sending me back to study 555 and semiconductor theory .
What about the noise/harmonics content? Certainly, we won't get that in solid state but is this something that matters here, in your (or anybody else) opinion?
Again, just asking about this particular setup, not in general as I know the answers for different other applications. .

Thanks
V