Basic Free Energy Device

[Turion]

Hey Carroll,
Good to see you here. And thanks for the e-mail the other day on that other issue.

You only need the ONE motor. Matt's gen will have to be built from scratch. But he will get there. I haven't been too worried because I still haven't gotten my garage in shape to build anything. I've got about five, or is it six projects half done, and can't wait until I have the space to set them all up. My big generator has been at the machine shop for over a year on a bench at the back of his shop, and I want it to come HOME so I can really do some testing. I've only been able to get over there for a couple hours at a time, and now it's a three hour drive just to get there.

Dave

[citfta]

I already have a scooter motor and flywheel set-up from some previous work on the 3BGS. I have that connected to a window motor that I was using as a generator. I only need to rewind that motor or the other one I have and then replace the window motor with Matt's generator. Should be pretty easy to get that done.

Dave on the email project just send me a sketch or something and I will see if I can get you some answers.

I see on this thread where some people are experimenting with the little RC plane motors. Those things are amazing! I haven't been on here for over a year. Mostly because of all the idiots spouting off their nonsense but also because my son got me back into flying RC planes again. Those little motors can produce some tremendous power for their size. I have some that are only about an inch and a half in diameter and about the same in length that are rated at 300 watts. I don't think they are suitable for what we want because they are mostly speed and not torque, But they are cheap and easy to take apart and experiment with. At least the small ones are cheap. The speed controllers for them are also inexpensive and give a wide range of speed from near zero to over 20,000 rpm. The biggest problem is they both run hot and have to have good airflow over them. Because of the heat I suspect they are not really all that efficient.

Later,
Carroll

[blackchisel97]

Because of the heat I suspect they are not really all that efficient.

Later,
Carroll

Hi Carroll,

Actually, you'd be surprised how efficient some of RC motors are. Easily comparable to the Lynch motor (efficiency - wise) on small scale.
Usually, the faster they run the more efficient they are, especially inrunners but outrunners can be very efficient too. The one below is a monster but they make smaller ones as well -
Turnigy 80-100-B 130Kv Brushless Outrunner | RC BASE

Take care
V

[citfta]

I really like those Turnigy motors. I have a few of the 2830/1000kv motors and they are great for a 5 foot foam wing. I have to agree for their size they are awesome. I just assumed because of the heat they put out they weren't that efficient. But then we are usually pushing them close to the limit when flying. I saw some of those monster motors like you linked to down at the Perry, Ga. swap meet a couple of weeks ago.

Good to know you are still around. I have stayed away from this forum for over a year but am back now to work on this latest project with Matt and Dave.

I finally got all the old windings off my scooter motor a few minutes ago. Now just need to get busy and measure off some wire and start winding.

Take care also,
Carroll

[shylo]

Welcome back

Hi Carroll, Nice to have you back!
Looking forward to your work.
I've always appreciated your posts'
A little off topic , but I think mag track is the way to go.
artv

[blackchisel97]

I really like those Turnigy motors. I have a few of the 2830/1000kv motors and they are great for a 5 foot foam wing. I have to agree for their size they are awesome. I just assumed because of the heat they put out they weren't that efficient. But then we are usually pushing them close to the limit when flying. I saw some of those monster motors like you linked to down at the Perry, Ga. swap meet a couple of weeks ago.

Good to know you are still around. I have stayed away from this forum for over a year but am back now to work on this latest project with Matt and Dave.

I finally got all the old windings off my scooter motor a few minutes ago. Now just need to get busy and measure off some wire and start winding.

Take care also,
Carroll

Nice to see you Carroll,

I've been busy between electro therapies research and watching over my own as well as Spooky2 forum. I'm currently immobilized, after head on with Bambi, followed by shoveling my 120yd lane which wasn't wise. I follow this thread from very beginning and hope to find affordable motor plus make some time so I can join. Need to get back on my feet first.

Take care
V

I apologize for disrupting, hope you guys don't mind

[Sawt2]

I just wanted to let everyone know this week I'll finish up the generator and try to get it out. Can't promise because I am slave to the garden but I am really trying to get everything caught up and back on track.

I'll start another thread with the existing motor instructions and the next set of instructions for the generator.

Cheers and thanks for your patience.
Matt

Thank you Matt, looking forward to it.

[citfta]

Hey Matt,

The rain coming in the next few days will probably put a stop to outside work so that will give you more time inside. I grew up working for a local farmer, so I know the weather controls everything you do. Sure has been nice the last couple of days.

I have had some time to work on rewinding the scooter motor. I have the first set of windings done and no shorts to ground so am happy with that. I found an easy way to keep up with the number of turns on my coils. I found a free program for the PC that lets you count your mouse clicks. So each time I added a turn I just reached over and hit the mouse. That way I didn't have to worry about losing my count if I get a phone call or interrupted in some other way. Will be real busy the next two days but hope to get the other winding done Monday. So maybe I will be ready to start on the generator shortly after you get the info posted for it.

Thanks again for all you do.
Carroll

[voltan]

hi citfta.when i took the factory windings off the emax motor it all seemed a bit random and counterintuitive.i would not be surprised if a good portion of the heat comes from the engine fighting itself,like pushing and pulling at the same time.and your right,the power density in the bigger ones is amazing.
cheers.

[citfta]

Hi Voltan,

Can you explain what you meant about the windings seeming to be random? I haven't taken the windings off one of the little RC motors so I am not sure what you meant. I have one that I need to rewind. I burned it out when the ESC (Electronic Speed Control for you non-RC guys) shorted out. The motors are 3 phase motors so they will have windings that will look a lot different from a regular DC brushed type motor.

As far as the heat goes I believe that is a direct result of forcing so much current through such small wire. I have some that appear to have about 24 gauge wire yet those motors will draw 15 to 18 amps under full throttle load. That is a lot of current for that size wire. To make a small motor that is only a little over an inch in diameter and a little over an inch long that can put out 300 watts of power is still a pretty good accomplishment even if it does run a little warm. One of those motors spinning a 10" x 4.7 pitch prop can move my 5' wing through the air at about 35 miles an hour. Makes it fun to fly in the wind.

Thanks for your comments.
Carroll

PS: Hey Matt and Dave, you guys still around?

[voltan]

you will see what i mean when you unwrap one.the emax motor i got has 12 stator poles and 14 neo's in the hub.imho the only way to achieve perfect timing,max efficiency with that pole combination is to treat it as a six phase motor.there is no way powering 2 phases at once,as with a standard controller, can possibly provide the optimum timing to every energized stator coil at any point in time.also delta wound 3 ph motors are known to generate cross currents that produce heat and reduce efficiency.there has to be counterforces in the standard setup.maybe,just maybe these motors are dumbed down a bit to conceal their true potential.
using mini isolation transformers that sense off the same coils being driven,this circuit works well.to have 6 phases like this 30 degrees apart would require 12 mini iso trafos and 12 transistors,as well as double the battery voltage.maybe too much weight for a flying model plane,but no problem on a bench.finding the right wire diameter and turns may take some trial and error,but this will give near perfect timing to every stator coil opposing pair, each of which will be on a bit over 90% of the time,(timing and duration are variable to a point with added components).which should make for a very efficient and seriously grunty little motor.other motors can have different pole counts, which could well call for a different phasing strategy.
cheers.

[Turion]

We're still around! I've been busy turning my garage into a shop, moving into the new place, remodeling, digging post holes and building fence, etc., etc. I also got my gen from the machine shop, so have been playing with it, plus testing some coil cores. I keep Matt busy helping me with the gen, so I don't know how far he has gotten on his generator prototype that he wants to share.

My gen definitely puts out more than it takes to run it, and speeds up under RESISTIVE loads, with a decreased amp draw. But we've moved on to the next step, which is trying to run motors and the like with the output without having to run them off batteries or caps that have been charged up by the generator. I want a looped system where I don't have to rotate input and charge batteries. Haven't gotten there yet. I'm just greedy like that.

Dave

[Turion]

Resistive loads

The gen I built (and Matt designed) speeds up under resistive loads and puts out more watts (volts x amps) than it uses to run. (This is with RESISTIVE LOADS ONLY!!) Matt built a simple two coil device as proof of concept, made a video, and sent it to me. I replicated and got the same result. With only one coil the input (on my machine) was 12 volts at 4 amps or 48 watts. The output was 120 volts at .7 amps or 84 watts. I made a video of it running and sent it to Matt. In the video I run some lights from the wall socket and show they are drawing 120 volts at .7 amps. Then I run the same lights off the generator and show they are drawing the exact same 120 volts at .7 amps. With two coils the input did not go up at all, in fact the motor powering the gen sped up when the second coil was shorted out. So I built a big 12 coil machine that has cost a couple thousand dollars for magnets, wire and machined parts. It has been nothing but trouble, but I have learned a lot. At the present time I can't keep mine running for any length of time. Mechanical failures like the magnets getting sucked out of the rotors and scraping against the coils, or other design failures. And, I keep blowing things up. I have gone through a couple boards and each time it's a couple hundred dollars worth of parts, so this has been a slow process. It has probably been a year that the gen has been "finished" and yet it has never run long term. When it DOES run, it does everything I want it to do...right up until something starts grinding or there is a loud pop and things quit working right. But what we have learned has allowed me to make some changes in the mechanical design of the unit, and I'm in the process of building a second one that will address all the issues we have seen in the past and eliminate the need for much of the electronics. It will probably take a few months to complete because I have to wind 12 new coils, which is expensive, and order a few hundred dollars worth of parts that I don't have the money for right now. But we will get there. I could cannibalize the first machine for coils, butI want to get the first one to run consistently, even though I am building a second one. I am stubborn like that.

Dave

[wantomake]

Ready

Thanks Dave,
I am ready to build, but as you posted it is costing you a lot. Will this be something we can afford to build? Hope to be able help and give any input to help the process succeed.

Good to hear of your success,
wantomake

[Turion]

Basic device

wantomake,
I started this thread because of what I saw with the simple two coil device Matt built and I replicated. It was obvious that by using a pulsed DC motor, the right gen, the right circuit and possibly with a flywheel, we could put together something that was even better than what Matt built and I replicated. And it will be CHEAP as we can get it! The purchase and rewinding of a razor scooter motor SHOULD be the biggest expense. The gen section Matt is building from scratch and testing. When he has it to the point he feels like others can replicate and get the same results, I know he will post it. It won't have the same output as my 12 coil machine, but that's not the purpose here. The purpose is to put something small together that ANYONE can replicate and get results that will convince ANYBODY that this stuff is for real. Then we take it from there.

I have worked dozens of bugs out of the the design Matt came up with, and I am very happy with what we have come up with, but THAT modified design isn't even built yet, and may have bugs of its own. I have someone working on parts for it right now, but I have magnets to buy and 12 coils to wind, so it won't be soon. I'm NOT going to post something here that costs a couple thousand dollars to replicate when mine won't stay running. When mine will run consistently, then you'll see my big machine and we'll get some folks to replicate it. Until then, the small prototype is where we need to focus because MORE PEOPLE can afford to build it.

When you can run a motor, recover 80% of the power you used to run it, and produce twice as much with the gen as it cost to run the motor in the first place, you are moving into the area where small changes make big differences.

Dave