Basic Free Energy Device

[Turion]

Mario,
Could if I had a Variac, and I have been really tempted to buy one, BUT, I want more than ANYTHING to demonstrate a looped system, which MAY require caps or batteries as a storage medium for power, but I want it independent of the grid. Also, I need batteries since a charged battery bank will provide me with power even when the unit is NOT running. Got 6 6volt 400 amp hour Trojan batteries lined up to pick up on Thursday or Friday. So I'll get there eventually.

Dave

[citfta]

Hi Dave,

Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the way Bizzy found that seems to work best for getting power back into the run battery. He found that trying to dump a quick pulse back into the battery by switching the battery from the motor to the generator didn't work too well as the battery didn't have time to absorb the charge from the rapid on and off of the pulse. His solution was to put some large caps in parallel with the battery. The caps absorbed the quick pulse and then the battery was able to absorb the charge from the caps while waiting for the next pulse. He also used some large caps on the generator to store charge between pulses. You and Matt may have already considered this but I just thought I would throw it out for consideration if you haven't.

I got all my ceramic magnets in today but didn't have time to do anything other than see how many I could mount on a small flywheel. I will be tied up most of the day tomorrow with a friend in the hospital so may not have time to do much until late in the day or Friday.

Carroll

[shylo]

You should try combining Matts' bouncer with a flywheel that uses a mag track, and use the 3bgs as a supply.
A properly balanced wheel of magnets will rotate ~350-355 degrees on its' own.
It still won't be free , but it will be so close that it won't matter.
artv

[voltan]

hi dave. auto brake machinists have usually got a big pile of iron filings handy if you want to source some.
cheers.

[Turion]

Citfta has built a generator similar to the one Angus Wangus shows on his YouTube videos using the dual coils and the U shaped core found in three of the washer motor pumps Gerard Morin was using for his experiments. He is currently running it with an off the shelf pulse motor and a switching circuit that powers the motor and then charges the run battery. To be clear, neither Citfta nor I are claiming COP>1 out of this generator.

But read on....

I have built a similar device, but need to get some larger magnets on my rotor. I'm not getting the same results Carroll is getting with his but my magnets are MUCH smaller. I am using tiny round magnets where he is using the large rectangular magnets you can get at Lowes. I will get some my next trip. What will we have when we combine this with the pulse motor? Don't know yet, but this is the kind of thing I am talking about. I'm sure the results will be even better. If run on a recovery circuit like the 3BGS, what will the results be? Better still, I am sure. You notice I am not making ANY claims on this because it is untested, but I know what is possible. You can pick up these pump motors for 6-10 bucks at a recycle place for washing machines, or 15-25 on Ebay. Then all you have to do is build a rotor and stick it on the shaft of a rewound razor scooter motor and you are rounding third and heading for home.

Here is a video of how I built my little setup for the three dual core U shaped generator, plus everything ELSE I have going on in my shop. It's a lot, so I stay really, really busy. Oh, got my 400 AMP hour batteries. Four of them are being delivered any minute now. That alone was over a thousand dollars. FREE energy? I don't THINK so Tim.

Pump motor generator - YouTube


Dave

[Turion]

As you know, Matt has been working on a generator he wants to release for this project, but I have been messing around with the pump motor Gerard M showed as a generator, and with good results. Carroll has been experimenting with it also.

I'm going to run the original pump motor as a generator by removing the fan that is on one end of the rotor assembly and turning the shaft with a drill or Dremel tool, just to see what the output will be and how many amps I can get out of it. That will give me some idea of the potential of this unit as a generator. I have already come up with several ideas on how to utilize this as a generator and will be exploring those to see which provides the most output for the least input. Ultimately, I am looking for something I can run with a rewound Razor Scooter motor, although that might be overkill for this unit once magnetic cogging is overcome by operating it at higher rpm's. Since it DOES speed up under loads.

We have the Motor.
That was an idea for the generator.
A flywheel is easy
What's left is the circuit.

I have also been woking on the 3BGS circuit, and with some changes we made I had a four hour run yesterday with full recovery of the primaries while running a razor scooter motor hooked up to another razor scooter motor as a generator and powering some lights. I also ran a 12 volt fan across battery 3 for a time. Plus the secondary batteries charged way, way up. We ALL know that the primary batteries can recover, but whether they have the same CAPACITY is the real question, and I wish I had a battery analyzer to really test them. I believe Matt does, so maybe if this next run is successful, I can talk him into replicating it and then testing his primary batteries.

Today I will be doing an 8 hour run of the same setup with DIFFERENT batteries to see if I can replicate the results. If so, I will give the circuit to a couple others to try, and if they are also successful, post it on the forum. The 3BGS circuit works AS IS, but there are things you have to know that should be common sense that most people will probably overlook about that circuit, so it won't work for them unless we go through it step by step. When we have all the other pieces of the puzzle on the board and in place, we'll walk through the circuit and talk about it. Unless of course this NEW circuit, which appears to be even better, works out.

Dave

[Mario]

Hi Dave,

you said you were able to get your wasching machine pump motor to speed up under load when used as a generator? I did try this a few months ago since I had one laying around, I think I went up to 5 or 6000 rpm but I got drag even when shorted.
My reasoning was that it couldn't exibit the delayed lenz effect because there is no space between one magnet and the next since it's basically one spinning magnet. Maybe yours is different?

Mario

[Turion]

Mario, it was speeding up under load with the rotor I made, which has spaces between the magnets, and they were going between the two laminates, not across the ends. I haven't tried it with the original rotor. I said I was going to try today to spin the original rotor using a Dremel tool to turn it. I haven't yet figured out a way to spin the shaft on the original with a motor so I could check for speed up under load with it, but apparently you have answered THAT question for me! but I still want to see for myself because I want to know as much as I can about this motor.

[Mario]

Hi Dave,

got you. I'm sure I didn't get speeding up with the original rotor, but two guys verifying something is always better than one

Mario

[Turion]

Mario,
I got an email from someone who said they DID get it to speed up under load, but only with INDUCTIVE loads. Someone else said only with RESISTIVE loads, so I am all about seeing is believing! LOL.

I KNOW the Angus Wangus build where the rotor magnets pass between the laminates rather than across the ends will speed up under load. I have seen it. I built it. It works. End of story. But "seems" to produce less power than running magnets across the ends of the laminates. My problem with THAT statement is there I did two experiments, but NOT with the same coils, so unless you compare apples to apples you never know.

I have the PMH sitting on my bench as we speak. But Carroll found these pump motors which already have U shaped laminates and are already wound, so we thought that would be an easy "proof of concept" for folks if we can figure out the BEST way to run it. Plus it gives us this platform where we can try different kinds of rotors and see for ourselves which configuration produces the most energy using the exact same coils and laminate core.

As I see it, there are several ways to have the coils on this unit interact with magnets, and I am going to pull a couple rabbits out of my hat before this is over and done, because I have ideas from previous projects I have never forgotten and this is my chance to put them into play.

It's going to take me some time, because there may be a little machine shop work to be done, but a brand new CNC machine is on its way to Matt's place as I am writing this, so we will be able to do some of our own work from now on and save a few bucks. Besides, new toys are always fun!

We are invested in this project, not just mentally, but economically also. And committed to making it work for everyone. It just takes time. We're STILL not sure what the best generator is.

But here are some facts.
1. Matt's pulse motor will do the job of turning whatever load we need it to turn, while running as a generator during the off times. Pulse motors use less power and off times generate power. Both are GOOD.
2. When you use the 3BGS circuit, the power produced during the off time plus the voltage that runs THROUGH the motor charges up the secondary batteries wired in parallel.
3. Using the 3BGS circuit properly, and switching the batteries from the front to the back like a Tesla switch you can get a MINIMUM of 8 times the rated run time out of your batteries. Eight times. That's 8 times. E*I*G*H*T. (AND THINK MINIMUM!!!) Now that is NOT in any way perpetual motion. But it is COP>8. It runs down eventually without outside input because of switching losses. Can't get around that. In a looped system like this you have switching losses that you have to answer for eventually. Matt has been saying THAT for a long time. It's about time somebody actually listened. How do you overcome that issue?
4. If your motor is hooked to a generator during that time even an IDIOT can probably figure out a way to use some of that generated power to supplement the system and recharge the batteries. Or hook up a little solar panel to compensate for losses and keep ALL of the generated power for other uses. Your choice.
5. But here's one important clue for you all concerning the 3BGS setup. It won't work with JUST the three batteries when you are using all new batteries. When you try to use two batteries in series to charge one battery with a motor in between, at some point the potential difference (as the discharged battery charges) drops below 15 volts that the partially discharged battery NEEDS to "see" to charge effectively and it no longer charges correctly. There are ways around that, and when we get to the circuit part of this project, we will talk options...taking into consideration cost vs simplicity of design. Did you see the word "JUST" in the second sentence? To get it to work requires MORE than just batteries. You need other components.

OK, enough ranting for today. I have a setup on my benchI am testing today, so time to get to work.

Dave

[Mario]

Dave, I'm waiting for two rotors that I'm having machined any day now, the rest of the generator is ready, including a normal (for now) razor motor to drive it. The rotors are iron to close the magnetic circuit although I don't think it's necessary. Of course t's more efficient than just having magnets on one side of a coil, but I also think having magnets on both sides even without a closed magnetic loop could work just as well.

What I also will want to try next is two aluminium rotors with very large and strong neo magnets on each side and quite flat air core coils sandwiched in-between to see if we can get speed up without any added drag.

Mario

[shylo]

Angus generator

Hi all, I think the Angus generator style starts with drag , and loading it makes the drag become less.
If you didn't have the drag to begin with you would be better off.
But it only works with a small load to a certian point.
Without loading the coils , the cores alone cause drag.
Can you use the lenz effect to drive another set of coils?
artv

[Turion]

Mario,
See Matt's post about drag. I don't remember if it's 1200 rpm or 1800 rpm where the drag of the magnets on metal cores suddenly goes away. Until you get to that point, you have to pay for it.

Dave

[gyula]

Hi Matt,

I would like to learn about the material you refer to, which has low attraction but high permeability.
Could you name such material?
(Of course I am aware of materials with high magnetic permeability like metglas, mumetal and certain ferrites.)

Regarding the magnetic drag caused by normal attraction of a permanent magnet to the core, may I refer to another possibility to reduce it: you could use the odd - even numbers i.e. odd number of permanent magnets or poles versus even number of cores or vice versa whichever more practical. Here I assume that such odd-even pairing would not change the working principle of a particular setup where originally an odd-odd or even-even number of poles and cores would be used.

Thanks for mentioning the short input pulse injection just past the attraction, it is a good possibility too.

Gyula

Your always going to have drag at low RPM's because of the attraction of Permanent magnet to the metal. You can rectify this 2 ways. Use a material that has low attraction but high permeability or turn the gen into a motor for brief period of time to accelerate the rotors past the attraction of the coil. Both allow for the driver to consume low amounts of current while accelerating. Loading any locking loop coil will result in drag until a certain RPM is reached. Impedance and frequency are hand in hand. One or the other has to have president for acceleration to occur.

Matt

[Mario]

Hi Gyula,

from my own experience, I agree with Matt, a precessional setup gets rid of cogging but it still brakes the rotor just like one that's in phase.

Mario