Basic Free Energy Device

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Hello. I’m Bob. I’m new here though I’ve known Dave through another forum for a few years. I’m not here for the money, because it always flows away from me. I’m not here for glory, because my experience has been that after all the long hours and frustrating failures, success has always come by accident…without rhyme or reason. That being said, here’s what I’ve been up to lately:

Below are a few pics of the version of Dave and Matt’s basic circuit that I’ve been playing with. It seemed redundant to me to have a second Primary battery is we use the Boost Module to raise the voltage, so I have been using one Primary and one Charge battery.

I’m using brand new batteries. If the batteries are at a high state of charge, my runs have been gaining or breaking even on a repeatable regularity. LA batteries tend to loose energy on their own, so little by little the batteries run lower and then the tests start loosing a little, then more, spiraling downward. With a high charge in the Primary, the Boost Module can be turned up to charge extremely fast and runs the motor strongly.

I haven’t started running a generator off the motor yet, so I haven’t taken advantage of the extra output from the motor with which we can push things well over into OU territory. But I was startled at the first runs to find that this little circuit does more of what I have spent years trying to experimentally find.

On 06-29-15, I used two new 12V, 12Ah motorcycle batteries, the Boost Module, and a 6-18V DC motor (Johnson P/N 76256-3J2861, about $3.50 at Goldmine Electronics). The batteries were standing at 12.46V and 12.46V at 1055 when I started the test. The batteries were at 12.24V and 13.18V when I stopped the test at 1259. After resting until 1435, they stood at 12.43V and 12.65V. A gain of .19V at the cost of .03V. The batteries are identical.

At 1518, I ran another test at a higher speed (1802 rpm). Starting at 12.44V and 12.64V, stopping at 2019 with the batteries at 12.00V and 14.11V. At 2149 they were standing at rest, 12.19V and 12.70V.

The next day I reversed the batteries and at 1429 with the batteries rested at 12.60V and 12.22V, ran a test at 672 rpm. Stopping at 2300 (8.5 hours later), the batteries were at 12.02V and 13.01V. Rested at 0030, they stood at 12.16V and 12.65V resulting in loosing .43V and gaining .43V.

The following tests (switching batteries back and forth) resulted in the following:
+.08V and -.08V
+.08V and -.07V
+.05V and -.06V
+.18V and -.21V
+.08V and -.12V

By this time the batteries were down to 12.22V and 12.43V. So as you can see, the gains turned into break evens and then losses as the batteries voltage dropped, little by little. I believe that maintaining the batteries at a high level will be necessary.

Fun, eh?

Bob

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Uneven Battery Charger

I forgot to talk about this:

I included a circuit in the above post for a 12V Primary charging a 6V battery. The main thing I wanted to say about it is that even without energizing the Boost Module the circuit runs the motor and charges. With the switch off, when I made the last connection while setting up the test, the motor started and the 6V battery voltage increased. I turned the switch on and the Module energized and the motor sped up. Very weird. Apparently, the Module's circuitry allows something through if the potential is there. (?) Or maybe it's just magic.

Bob

[citfta]

Hi Bob and thanks for posting that info. I am going to be very busy with out of town company for the weekend but the first of the week I want to try that with a motor and generator. At present I only have two good batteries so your circuit will work well for me until I get some more batteries. I have some unmodified scooter motors and one modified according to Matt's design. I also have a pump motor I am using as a generator. So I have a couple of different set-ups I can try. I will post the results when I am done testing.

Later,
Carroll

[level]

I forgot to talk about this:

I included a circuit in the above post for a 12V Primary charging a 6V battery. The main thing I wanted to say about it is that even without energizing the Boost Module the circuit runs the motor and charges. With the switch off, when I made the last connection while setting up the test, the motor started and the 6V battery voltage increased. I turned the switch on and the Module energized and the motor sped up. Very weird. Apparently, the Module's circuitry allows something through if the potential is there. (?) Or maybe it's just magic.

Bob

Hello Bob. Thanks for the details of your testing. In your 12V to 6V battery setup, the reason you saw the motor start and the 6V battery start charging when you hadn't switched on the boost converter yet is because a non-isolating boost converter (also called a boost switching regulator or boost DC to DC converter) has a direct connection from it's input Vin + terminal to its output Vout + terminal, typically through a low forward voltage drop diode such as a Schottky diode. If you see the attached schematic of a basic boost converter circuit it should be clear why this is the case.



I know you guys are probably already fully aware of this, but just putting this out there for anyone who may find it useful. If you run a battery down for a while by connecting some load to it, and then disconnect the load and let the battery sit for a while, with almost all batteries the battery voltage will start to climb back up again. However the unloaded rest voltage of a battery doesn't give a very accurate indication at all of how much charge is left in the battery.

I would suggest the following as a possible alternative, but this probably only makes sense if all the batteries in the test setup are of the same type and same capacity. If you have a battery charger that has an indicator light that reliably indicates when a battery has reached full charge, after you have finished your test runs on your set of batteries you are testing with, you can put all batteries on charge one at a time and time how long it takes before each battery comes up to full charge with your battery charger. I have found that the battery charge times for a given battery type and capacity and a given battery charger give a fairly reasonable indication of how discharged a battery really is. The more discharged a battery is the longer it takes to charge. As long as the batteries are of the same type and capacity, the charge up times will give you a much better indication of how discharged a battery really is by comparison, than measuring the unloaded rest voltages on the batteries which is very misleading. Alternatively if you have some sort of battery tester that can accurately measure the remaining charge on a battery then that might be even bettter, but for certain you can't rely on the unloaded rest voltages of batteries as an indicator of charge remaining on a battery.

BTW, I have done a lot of similar testing to what you guys are doing, so I know well the problem of judging the remaining charge on batteries. I have used a 1 Amp trickle charger with smaller 12V SLA batteries for my testing, and I have found that the battery recharge times when using this same charger give me a resonably good idea of how discharged the batteries were by comparing the charge times. After a while you get a pretty good feel for how discharged a battery is by how long it takes to recharge. Just throwing it out there in case someone else may find this method useful. Of course as a battery starts to get older its charge times may start changing, but over a shorter term the relative charge times should be a fairly good indicator of remaining charge.

[Turion]

I have been using the following meter to check the capacity and voltage of the batteries before and after runs, and as I rotate them.
Digital Automotive Battery Analyzer

But as far as I am concerned, the TRUE measurement of a system is how many watts of power does it put out. When the output of the generator to the load (volts x amps) exceeds the total watt capacity of the four batteries by several times, I believe this is worth looking into.

The most important thing people need to remember is, we DON'T have to get more out than what is put in. If we break even or a little LESS than even, we still get the majority of the power produced by the generator for free. That's what we're shooting for here.

Dave

[erfinder]

I have been using the following meter to check the capacity and voltage of the batteries before and after runs, and as I rotate them.
Digital Automotive Battery Analyzer

But as far as I am concerned, the TRUE measurement of a system is how many watts of power does it put out. When the output of the generator to the load (volts x amps) exceeds the total watt capacity of the four batteries by several times, I believe this is worth looking into.

The most important thing people need to remember is, we DON'T have to get more out than what is put in. If we break even or a little LESS than even, we still get the majority of the power produced by the generator for free. That's what we're shooting for here.

Dave

Hello Dave,

Where are you on the generator? Have you found a configuration which you are ready to discuss?

Regards

[shylo]

Thanks for the info Bob. I noticed in your schematic and Dave's that the ground out is not used. Then in Levels' schematic it seems the ground is common? It has me confused how can the circuit even do anything seems the Pin would just go directly to Pout. I'm pretty slow when it comes to electronics or anything else for that matter.

Matt , Thanks I'm going to make new brush holders , Since I only have 2 drive brushes I've noticed with other builds that once the motor is running you can adjust them to increase or decrease rpm and amp draw. This also affects the arcing at the brushes. I lock them in place with the least amount of arcing.Is this the proper positioning? Or just go for rpm?
Also since you send a higher potential back to the source do I still need the blocking diode? Or better to keep it in there just for protection?
The amp draw went way up off scale when everything burnt ,the insulation between 2 brushes failed, dead short right?

Still waiting on my boost converters to arrive, will I be able to use them on the outputs of the collectors safely without burning them up?
I ordered 5 because I figure some of them will be sacrificed.
Back to the brushes.
artv

[level]

I noticed in your schematic and Dave's that the ground out is not used. Then in Levels' schematic it seems the ground is common? It has me confused how can the circuit even do anything seems the Pin would just go directly to Pout.

Hello shylo. With the boost converter, when the transistor is pulsed on it pulls more current through the inductor, and then when the transistor is switched off the diode collects the high voltage back pulse from the inductor and stores the energy in the output capacitor. Since the inductor back pulses are higher voltage than the input voltage to the boost converter, the output voltage on the boost converter output capacitor is higher than its input voltage when the boost converter is powered on. To adjust the output voltage on the boost converter, the boost converter typically adjusts its transistor pulsing duty cycle. In Bob's 12v to 6V battery circuit, the negative terminal on the primary battery is the common ground for the whole circuit, so that is why you don't have to conect the boost converter output negative terminal to anything, as its input negative terminal is connected to the primary battery neagative terminal when it is switched on.

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Thanks

Dave, Carroll, Level, and artv,

Thank you all for the warm welcome.

Level, thanks for the Boost Module explanation and circuit drawing. So the motor runs off the potential difference of the batteries (minus some losses) with the switch open. I kinda figured it was something like that, but didn't know the Boost circuitry. I agree with you about the inaccuracy of just measuring the voltage of the batteries, but at this point, it's just a convenient indicator. Because we're swapping the batteries back and forth, the true test is whether they go up or down in the long run.

Once I have a pulse motor other things will be possible, such as back popping the Primary with a cap dump on the OFF cycle. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to pulse a conventionally wound motor until I build a true pulse motor? Is it a viable idea? I have thought about hooking up an Arduino and transistor to regulate it. (?) Then I could use the Arduino to dump the cap too. I'm running tests on one of my two units and the other two batteries are on my Bedini energizer getting a little conditioned. When they come off I might try that.

Bob

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi Dave, i assume you are also dbowling from other site.
Keep sharing and keep at it, we are all in the same boat, no matter if some wish to believe they are not.
I was working with the Rene re-emf charger for the past weeks and noticed the idea about the boost converter with your circuit.
So yesterday, i hooked up a medium power regular transformer in line between the sources, i only have one 235cca tractor battery at the moment and using a 30 volt laptop power supply as primary source.
Then hooked a 6 watt led bulb to the transformer secondary output and it lighted to decent brightness, maybe 30% of full.
The kicker is, the input amps dropped by 40 milliamps, from .2A to .16A.
Then i thought, why not place a full wave bridge on the transformer secondary output and then run the led bulb in line back to the charge battery.
Another kicker, it dropped a further 10 milliamps, down to .15A and the charge battery is charging much faster with 4.5 watts than it did when using 6.1 watts or .2A at 30.5V for input, without the transformer or led bulb.
This line of experiments seem worth our time.
peace love light

[Turion]

Skywatcher,
Yes, I am the same dbowling from the other site. I posted the info there, but I won't be back. I have no time to argue with them. I did my part by sharing. I'm not required to hold hands or convince all the naysayers.

Bob,
you can pulse a conventional motor with an external commutator. Probably the best one to use would be one that works by line of sight. (Optical sensor) Then you can make a wheel that blocks line of sight for whatever segment of rotation you want, or that allows the motor to receive power several times during rotation with several off times.

erfinder,
Matt has been working on a generator, but life has been keeping him busy. He's pretty sure it will do what we want. I have been gone for weeks working at my mom's place and have to leave again next week, so I have been unable to do much. I have been working with those U shaped cores with two coils on them (the pump motor Gerard showed us) and got some good results out of that. I know Carroll has been looking into it too. But as far as saying "this is the one", no, I'm not at that point....other than what Matt is working on.

If we take this circuit and Matt;s pulse motor, we're pretty darn close. From what I have seen almost ANY generator will get us there because this circuit extends the run times of the batteries to the point that you just need that little bit extra once in a while to keep them up where they need to be. And that was the whole point. I don't care if this circuit is COP>1 or not, as long as it gets me those long extended run times without needing any outside input to the batteries, and I already know it does. Which means the majority of the generator output can go to running loads.

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Today I put three 100Ah LA batteries that I had converted to Alum in series as a Primary and ran a test charging two more in parallel with just the motor in between (no Boost Module). I ran it wide open for 1 hour and 50 minutes. Starting at 17.40V and 5.77V, they went to 16.09V and 5.96V, where I stopped it. 5 hours later they were standing at rest at 17.42V and 5.88V.

I'm running another test now.

Bob

[Turion]

Today I put three 100Ah LA batteries that I had converted to Alum in series as a Primary and ran a test charging two more in parallel with just the motor in between (no Boost Module). I ran it wide open for 1 hour and 50 minutes. Starting at 17.40V and 5.77V, they went to 16.09V and 5.96V, where I stopped it. 5 hours later they were standing at rest at 17.42V and 5.88V.

I'm running another test now.

Bob

Bob, is that a correct number...the battery went DOWN and then jumped back up to 17.42

[shylo]

Hi Bob ,Were the 2 batteries in parallel alum converted also?
3 in series , were only about 6 volts each, or was 1 or 2 way low ,the others high?
I have lots of dead batteries ,that are pretty much useless, would it be worth converting them?
I can put any of them in the 3BGS and they will charge , but it doesn't have the same capacity . More than before ,but not as good as new.
From what I've seen you just flush the battery clean and than fill with a certain recipe of chemicals. But like everything else you can search for days and never get a definitive answer.
Thanks for the info those #'s are inspiring.
artv

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Yes, Dave, 16.09V. When I saw that they had fallen that much I decided to stop the test. I was quite surprised to find that they had recovered to higher than where they started.

Shylo, all the batteries were identical...100Ah 6V deep cycle LA batteries. They are old and not in great shape. I have found that in converting batteries to Alum, that if I dump on the acid, but DO NOT RINSE the battery, the little bit of acid is good. We have used a variety of mixture ratios and all seem to work. We started with what we call "10%", which was 1 part Alum by volume to 9 parts distilled water by volume. I have used up to equal amounts of each by volume. All seem to work.
:"
I have also used multiple applications. Let me explain: You have to warm the water (140°) so the Alum will dissolve completely. After poring it into the batteries it will precipitate crystals as it cools. DO NOT MOVE THE BATTERY UNTIL IT IS COOL (at least 2-3 hours). After it cools I sometimes would dump out the liquid, which is almost just water, and apply another batch of warm solution to increase the crystals in the battery. I have no good data to say whether this is helpful or not.

Alum batteries are different animals. I have run them completely dead with an incandescent bulb over night (a dead short when it quits lighting) and had them bounce back up by themselves. Then I charged them normally. You can't hurt them.

BTW, a friend found out that Alum is a "secret ingredient" that they add only to their premium batteries. I added 1/2 tsp to each cell of my 215Ah, 6V deep cycle batteries in my solar system (I live off-grid). They are working better than ever...seem to charge faster, hold higher, longer. This is a subjective statement as I can track the voltage of the system, but the amount of solar input varies constantly, everyday, every moment.

Bob