Basic Free Energy Device

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Alternating Charge Batteries

To all,

First let me apologize...I don't know where I get this stuff...oh, well...OK.

I have attached a drawing of the setup that I just finished its first test. It shows a 12V Primary running a Boost Module that is running a motor which is attached to the first charge battery (12V, "normal" so far, whatever that is). Then I have another 12V charge battery in reverse (neg. to neg.) and then another 12V charge battery in reverse (pos. to pos.) which then goes to the Primary (neg. to neg., back to "normal"). All the batteries are identical (12V, 13Ah garden tractor batteries from Walmart, U1P-7, 275 CCA, except #3 which is a U1-7, 230 CCA. All these batteries are Alum.)

So the three charge batteries are each reversed from each other.

I starting with the batteries rested and standing at:

#1) 12.19V, #2) 11.91V, #3) 11.79V, #4) 12.09V

After one minute they were at:

#1) 11.85V #2) 12.16V, #3) 11.52V, #4) 12.54V

After 30 minutes they were at:

#1) 11.83V, #2) 12.37V, #3) 11.56V, #4) 12.81V

I stopped the test and after 1.25 hours they stood at:

#1) 12.14, #2) 12.04V, #3) 11.78V, #4) 12.31V
(-.05V) (+.22V) (-.01V) (+.13V) = (-.06V and +.35V)
An over all gain of .29V. Note that #3 went down, then rose during the test.

Bob

PS -I'm so glad this actually happened...I couldn't make this **** up!

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Update on 100Ah test

I ran another test for an hour and 24 minutes with exact same setup...just turned if back on. Batteries stood at rest: 17.39V and 5.86V. Test ended with the batteries at: 15.12V and 5.96V. After 3 hours and 9 minutes of rest they stand at: 17.38V and 5.89V giving a loss of .01V and a gain of .03V. But the loss is in 3 batteries and the gain in 2.

Bob

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Alternating Charge Batteries

I have run two more this setup and gotten increasing worse results. -.10V, +.08V and -.46V, +.13V.

One interesting detail is that in this configuration, the middle charge battery drops about 1/3 as much as the Primary and the charge battery next to the Primary charges through the roof, about twice as much as the one next to the motor.

*******************************

I setup this circuit on the new batteries (12V, 12Ah LA motorcycle) and have run two tests. The first one for 30 minutes resulted in -.08V, +.16V after 1.5 hr. rest. But in the morning they had fallen to -.16V, +.04V.The second test, which ran 20 minutes this morning, resulted in -.05V, +.15V after a 1.5 hr. rest. Question is where will they be in 8 hrs.?

Bob

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Update on 100Ah test

The first test started at 17.40V, 5.77V, was at 16.09V, 5.96V in an hour and 50 minutes, stopped, and at 17.42V, 5.88V after hours of rests.

The second test started at 17.42V, 5.88V, was at 15.10V, 5.96V in 2 hrs. and 25 minutes, stopped, and at 17.39V, 5.86V after over 10 hrs. rest.

The third test started at 17.39V, 5.86V, was at 15.12V, 5.96V in an hour and 24 minutes, stopped, and was at 17.39V, 5.87V after an 8 hr. rest.

From start of the first test to the end of the third test it resulted in -.01V in three batteries and +.10V in two batteries. This is simply Dave's original circuit run with 18V going to 6V with the motor running at full speed the whole time (no Boost Module).
(the same 100Ah Alum batteries in their same positions used in these tests.)

I started another test last night. In over 11 hours, it has gone from 17.39V, 5.87V at rest to 15.16V, 5.98V. I'm going to watch it all day. The charge batteries don't seem to want to go up above 5.96V and are doing so slowly, but the Primaries seem to be doing better. I guess a little exercise doesn't hurt anybody.

Bob

[shylo]

Just an update ,start 12.75 , 12.55, 12.54 . After 10 hours of running 12.75, 12.51 ,12.50. Half hour runs and half hour rests, 20 runs and 20 rests.
I still don't have my boost circuits, and only have 1 set of collectors , I had 2 before the short.
There was just the motor running but am going to add an Angus type generator.
The generator I was trying to use causes to much drag, It might be better on a bigger set-up, I don't know.
Also still trying to find the best coil shorting.
artv

[citfta]

I took the circuit that Bob posted and modified it a little and so far it seems to be working to allow me to charge one battery faster than I am discharging the other battery. Bob and Dave both suggested I post it here so others can try it and see if it works for them.

Using analogue meters (the kind with a needle) it appears the current going into the charge battery is higher than the current coming from the run battery. I don't understand how this little boost circuit can do that but that is what the meters are showing. Also the charges on the batteries is showing the same thing. The charge battery is charging faster than the run battery is going down. I have only had time to run this through 3 cycles of charging and rest and charging again. I am still using the same battery every time as my run battery because the charge battery was very low when I started. It was at only 11.95 volts and my run battery was at 12.60. I am pretty sure the charge battery also suffers from some sulphation. So far I have gained .4 volts on the charge battery and lost .2 volts on the run battery. That agrees with the meters that show .5 amps coming from the run battery and 1.25 amps going to the charge battery.

You can control the mosfet switch with a Pic chip or 555 timer or however you want to. There is a schematic for the mosfet switch in my thread for open discussion of projects on this forum.

As I was getting ready to post this I got an email from Matt Jones who suggested I drop the resistor and see what that does. You can try that also but you may have to adjust the voltage on the boost module and the timing of the discharge cycle to get that to work properly.

I am kind of surprised that we don't have more people working on this project. We have all these wild ideas on this forum using pole pigs and ground loops that don't work but no one seems to want to work on something that is actually showing real progress with no hidden secrets.

Carroll

To make it easier to identify this circuit as per Dave's suggestion let's call this one C1.

[blackchisel97]

Hi Carroll,

Dropping the resistor and tweaking with boost output/switch pulse width maybe good idea. Is it possible that charging/current has something to do with boost circuit frequency? I can't explain why it is happening, just thinking out loud.

@ All, Thank you for sharing

V

[level]

Hello Citfta. Thanks for the info on your setup. How are you measuring the voltage on the batteries? Are you measuring the open circuit voltage on the batteries after they have been sitting unloaded for a while?

[citfta]

Hi level,

I am measuring the batteries after letting them sit for at least an hour. When I first disconnect them the charge battery is about 1 volt or more above where it settles down to. I think that battery is sulphated some so this process is cleaning up the sulphation and causing the voltage to settle more than it probably would if it was a good battery. I also realize this is not the best way to judge how well this charging system is working but combined with the analogue ammeter readings I think something is going on that is allowing the charge battery to gain more than the run battery is losing. Only more runs and time will tell whether there is in fact a gain to this way of charging.

I hesitated to post this yet but Dave and Bob both wanted others to try it and see what they got. I also would like to see if anyone else can get the same results. If you have one of those little boost circuits that Dave posted a link to earlier and a couple of good batteries it might be worth looking into. I also believe the cap dumping is adding to the charging of the charge battery. I seem to get better results anytime I use cap dumping instead of straight charging.

If this works or doesn't I will post results later. I want to make a lot more runs before I decide if this is worth pursuing further.

Thanks for your interest.
Carroll

PS: I don't think I mentioned but these are both the lawn and garden tractor size batteries. I think they are called U1 size.

[level]

Hello citfta. That's interesting about seeing a larger charge current than the boost converter is pulling from the run battery. I don't really have an explantion other than the analog meter you are using possibly may not be able to average out the DC charge pulses very well. If you have another meter that you could compare curent readings to, that might shed some light. If you have a scope, you can put a 1 ohm or less current sensing resistor in place of your analog ammeter in the charge circuit, and view the charge current waveform on your scope, and if your scope can do an RMS calculation on that waveform you could compare results that way as well, just as a sanity check. If both methods agree more or less on the charge current magnitude then you may be onto something with your capacitor pulsing. I do have a boost converter I could use, but it may be a little while before I get the time to try a similar setup. I have done a fair bit of experimenting with these type of setups in the past. I intend to do more testing as time permits.

Edit: Another thing to consider is that we have to compare the power in versus power out.
So input power is roughly say 12.5V x 0.5A = 6.25W.
Output power is ... hmm, I have to think about that more. Can we say that the output power is just the charge battery terminal voltage time its RMS charge current? I don't think so. A battery is not like a normal load in that the voltage across it does not vary in a normal way with changes in its charge current.
Need to think about this more... Normally we could take the boost converter power consumption as our total output power consumption, but that won't work if we think there might be a power gain at the output...

[citfta]

Hi again Level,

OK, been playing around with this for a couple of hours now. I have tried other meters and they show the same thing. There is something about having the resistor in the circuit that is having a big effect to how it works. Matt suggested I try running it without the resistor and I agree in theory that should be better because then I wouldn't be wasting power heating the resistor. But if I try to lower the resistance to 10 ohms my ratio of input to output starts getting worse. In other words I start drawing more input current (which I would expect) but the output current going to the charge battery does not go up a corresponding amount. It still goes up but not in the same proportion as the input current. I tried to make several adjustments to the boost circuit and the timing but could never get as good a ratio as with the 20 ohm resistance. If I tried to eliminate the resistor altogether my input current went higher than my output current. There again I tried to adjust things to correct that but never found a combination that worked as well as with the 20 ohm resistance. I need to find another 10 ohm 10 watt resistor to add in series and see what that does to the ratio of input to output current. Unfortunately I have some errands to run and won't get back to this until late this evening.

Matt also suggested I look at the charge signal with a scope and make sure the timing was such that the battery was able to accept what I was hitting it with. He suspected my timing might be too fast. He was correct. I could see on the scope that I was not getting all the charge out of the cap and also as soon as the cap turned off the battery voltage dropped some before tapering off like it should have. So I changed the timing to a 15 millisecond discharge and a 60 millisecond charge time. My current seemed to stay the same but the battery seems to be charging better. On the scope I could see the end of the cap discharge and then a nice slow drop in voltage as the battery absorbed the charge.

My scope does not have any way to calculate any current curves or anything like that. It is just an old B&K dual trace scope. So I think the only way I am going to know if this really is doing what it looks like it is doing is to just keep going and see if the batteries continue to hold up or even get better. Or maybe they will die.

Thanks for your interest in all this.

Later,
Carroll

[level]

Citfta, thanks for the update. That's interesting about the 20 ohm resistor giving you the best input to output current ratio. Yeah, maybe a higher series resistance will give even a better current ratio. Keep us posted.

[ZeroMassInertia]

Eric dollard had an old military device in his Toyota that used a mechanical vibrator that charged several caps to get an increase in voltage. I was looking for a link on youtube but was unable to locate one .I did fine this link in which this fellow is trying to explain the process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uEN7SUEJrg

[kenssurplus]

Eric dollard had an old military device in his Toyota that used a mechanical vibrator that charged several caps to get an increase in voltage. I was looking for a link on youtube but was unable to locate one .I did fine this link in which this fellow is trying to explain the process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uEN7SUEJrg

I think this thing has a mechanical vibrator that changes 6V / 12V into operating voltage for the tubes. I remember seeing (and hearing) one operate as a youngster:
Vintage C 1954 Civil Defense Motorola 2 Way Radio Model T43G 1 for Parts Repair | eBay

[citfta]

Hi guys,

I am old enough to remember the days when all car radios had vibrator circuits. You could always hear the hum of the vibrator. There should be a thread in the Eric Dollard section of this forum about the device Eric had. There was a discussion about it on here about a year ago or more I think with pictures and the schematic of the device.

Carroll