Basic Free Energy Device

[Turion]

Information

I've been kinda tied up as late with numerous weird health issues and the birth of a new grand baby, but I do have some POSITIVE news to share.

The big generator I built has been on ongoing project I have been working on for the last couple years. It had triple rotors, 18 neo magnets, 12 coils and is driven by a razor scooter motor. I was getting AWESOME outputs, but kept having issues with the magnetic lock of the magnets to the iron cores. I kept burning up motors. I tried air cores, ferrite cores, all kinds of things, including rewinding the coils too many times to even THINK about. We ran it as a generator at times and a motor at other times to assist the drive motor. It was rebuilt from the ground up at least four different times.

Finally, I rebuilt it to its present form. The motor runs on a modified 3BGS circuit so that better than 80% of the energy used to run the motor is recovered, but even WITHOUT THAT, the results are enviable.

It's currently putting out around 800 watts, and running on around 120 watts. I say AROUND 120 watts, because it speeds up under load, so the amp draw goes down when the load is added. That's a COP >6 WITHOUT considering the fact that we get back MOST of the power used to run the motor with the circuit we are using. When you factor THAT in, and assume only 50% recovery using the 3BGS circuit, the COP goes up to 12.

There are still THREE major modifications to make, all three of which SHOULD improve performance. I need to wind all new coils to take advantage of some of the things we have learned, and I am NOT looking forward to that. In fact, I have been putting it off until I could come up with a coil winder. However, the success of the current model has me motivated to start that process soon. I have wire on order, and am looking at some custom cores that I know will improve the output tremendously, but cost a bit more than I can afford at this time.

Anyway, I probably only spent 5 or 6 thousand on this one project alone. Now that's what I call "Free Energy."


The really interesting thing is, we have TWO other projects that I am more excited about than I am about THIS one. One is Matt's motor/generator, and the other doesn't use a motor at all to produce energy. It's all batteries and solid state.

Dave

[Mario]

Hi Dave,

that sounds quite encouraging, keep it up, I know how much you hate winding coils .
I'm quietly working in the background (just so you know you're not alone..).

One thing I have found is that you can't recover a decent amount of energy from a collapsing motor coil unless it is not generating. If you have a sine wave generated from the moving magnet over imposed on your motor coil pulse (SG style), recovery stays down in the 40-50% area.

regards,
Mario

[erfinder]

It's currently putting out around 800 watts, and running on around 120 watts. I say AROUND 120 watts, because it speeds up under load, so the amp draw goes down when the load is added. That's a COP >6 WITHOUT considering the fact that we get back MOST of the power used to run the motor with the circuit we are using. When you factor THAT in, and assume only 50% recovery using the 3BGS circuit, the COP goes up to 12.

Dave

I would enjoy watching you demonstrate 120 watts in 800 watts out. I really don't think I am alone when I say this. I am fairly positive folk all over the community, from all levels would appreciate seeing a genuine demonstration of more out than in form our ranks.....

On another note, I find it rather interesting and informative, your reference to the current decreasing when you apply a load to your generator. My experience has taught me to take advantage of those relations which lead to the consumption increasing when a load is applied to the generator. I find nothing wrong with the system doing what it wants to do naturally.

Most will argue, stating the obvious, consumption increasing under load is normal behavior, they are be right, but for whatever reason, most cannot see more than the obvious. Normally a loaded generator is producing current which operates in opposition to the current and or fields which induced them, this relationship demands that the prime mover consume more. We have a machine which produces two outputs, 1x mechanical, 1x electrical, the two are one, however, only the electrical is accessible in presently used topologies.

Under ideal circumstances, when the load is applied to the generator, the prime mover's consumption will increase, along with the speed of the prime mover. In this, my scenario, one takes full advantage of the relationship shared by the mechanisms of self and mutual induction. I am working towards refining my understanding of what "unity" is, and establishing this condition as the condition for devices I build to be operating in. Once unity is established as the foundation of the system, the path which leads to excess becomes crystal clear. What follows is a no frills video the only machine in my compliment which can be classified truly as an energizer, or better stated, exciter, the heart of a concept which has no size limitation.

https://vimeo.com/168161264

Current must increase with in creasing RPM in an energizer. As opposition to change increases, with increasing speed, the counterpart to opposition to change in current must also increase so as to counteract the effects of rising opposition to change in current. An energizer must have a powerful, unimpeded influence on systems it governs.

Now you have seen a demonstration of air core acceleration, with low impedance coils...from my bench.


Regards

[erfinder]

Hi Dave,
One thing I have found is that you can't recover a decent amount of energy from a collapsing motor coil unless it is not generating. If you have a sine wave generated from the moving magnet over imposed on your motor coil pulse (SG style), recovery stays down in the 40-50% area.

regards,
Mario

This is a very important point.

We are informed of the relation that the applied EMF has with the induced EMF. We are informed that the difference or Effective voltage is the true no load work horse. Here is the heart of the issue with recovery, we don't recover all that we can because over 90% of the input is tied up in a fight. This is why I spend almost all of my energy in understanding how to invert the relation that the induced has to the applied. When the relation is inverted, the greater portion of the input is no longer tied up in a fight, and is available to the operator to reincorporate as he/she sees fit.

If nothing else....more fuel for the fire.


Regards

[Turion]

Information

I flew out to AZ for the birth of my Grand Daughter, and won't be back home until next Tuesday, so it will be a while before you see a video from me. I have pulled all videos from my YouTube channel.

One thing I have stated over and over and over about running a motor on the 3BGS setup. I believe the generated voltage of the motor comes out of the motor and does NOT fight against the input voltage, which is what makes running an off the shelf motor between the positives SO EFFICIENT. I have stated this many times, and I have described how I am measuring the voltage. As far as I know, in the 8 years I have been spouting off here, no one but Matt and possibly Carrol have EVER bothered to put a scope on it and test my conclusion, so it has been my working hypothesis. It is the MAIN reason I have kept the motor separate from the generator in my design. It makes the motor circuit a very simple circuit and gives me opportunity to wok with the generating circuit to adjust the timing as I see fit. With the current machine I have done NOTHING with timing to improve production or decrease load on the motor. There are lots of adjustments possible.

erfinder,
I find it interesting that you believe that drawing more amps under load is "natural" and speeding up under load is "un-natural". In essence you are saying that I have done something "UN-natural" in my build. I have not as far as I know. I have been able to get all kinds of different coils to speed up under load, with all different lengths and sizes of wire. Under the right conditions, I believe ANY coil will cause a speed up under load, but I don't have the time to try and PROVE that. It is enough for me that the ones I am using right now will do it.

And if I have mislead you into believing my GOAL is for the motor to speed up under load, I apologize. It is not. My goal has been to develop a system that is so well tuned that the load on the generator has NO EFFECT on the motor whatsoever. And I am getting closer all the time.

[erfinder]

erfinder,
I find it interesting that you believe that drawing more amps under load is "natural" and speeding up under load is "un-natural".

What I believe is immaterial. What a system shows is what matters to me. Systems, conventional ones, show that when a generator is placed under load, the prime mover demands higher input. This is the "natural" condition I refer to.

The speed up effect that I not only refer to but also demonstrate is one which is connected with the natural tendency for consumption to increase. Through my approach, the mechanism which causes the prime mover to decelerate when the load is applied is inverted.

In essence you are saying that I have done something "UN-natural" in my build.

I suggest you read my posts again if you can stomach it. My posts are about my work, what I am doing, I make no comparisons to your work, or your efforts, past present or future. So in essence you are incorrect in assuming that I am saying you had done something "un natural" in your build. I am not referring to your build. I mentioned that your position is informative, and moved on to describing what I have found....period....

I have not as far as I know. I have been able to get all kinds of different coils to speed up under load, with all different lengths and sizes of wire. Under the right conditions, I believe ANY coil will cause a speed up under load, but I don't have the time to try and PROVE that. It is enough for me that the ones I am using right now will do it.

I am not calling into question what you have done, nor how you've done it. I am not asking you to prove anything. I did ask you if you would demonstrate your 120watt to 800watt machine, but don't blame you if you don't.

And if I have mislead you into believing my GOAL is for the motor to speed up under load, I apologize. It is not. My goal has been to develop a system that is so well tuned that the load on the generator has NO EFFECT on the motor whatsoever. And I am getting closer all the time.

Your goal is yours, and is about as important to me as mine is to you. What should matter is whether or not we have anything in common as far as methodologies are concerned. You asked some time ago whether anyone had accomplished the effect of acceleration under short with air core. No one answered that question, I am here answering it, late, but I am here! As is usually the case, it took me a while to decide whether I wanted to share what I had found. From what I continue to gather from these exchanges, what I am doing is way different from what is being considered here, as is my perspective on systems, specifically mine.

Regarding generating with "NO EFFECT on the motor what so ever"..... I have two such systems however, in studying the DC motor and in comprehending them as being the seed of something far more promising than their present embodiment reveals, I wrote those two systems off as they were inferior to systems of proper geometric relations. In my opinion, one which is not shared by many, the ideal generator is one where the prime mover and generator are united through mutual and self induction. Through this union, the principle of generation is multiplied.

Most want their input to drop, consumption decrease equates to some form of impedance limiting current. I too desire control of current, however, contrary to the majority, I am of the opinion that impedance (probably not the term to use in this context) is to govern its increase with increasing rpm versus decrease with increasing rpm. I am hoping that there is at least one person reading this who understands the implications of my suggestions, and more importantly recognizes that these aren't simply suggestions, they are working concepts.



Regards

[BroMikey]

I flew out to AZ for the birth of my Grand Daughter, and won't be back home until next Tuesday, so it will be a while before you see a video from me. I have pulled all videos from my YouTube channel.

My goal has been to develop a system that is so well tuned that the load on the generator has NO EFFECT on the motor whatsoever. And I am getting closer all the time.

You asked if I CAN demonstrate it, and yes I can. The question is WILL I, and the answer is NO.

I did not make those videos public.

Since that time I have pulled down ALL my videos from my YouTube channel, and I am no longer posting there or sharing anything until some things get worked out.

... I wanted to start a discussion about my theory on WHY they accelerated under load, (which is DIFFERENT from Thaine's theory of high impedance..

As you may have noticed we are not posting here much anymore.

Eventually it will end up here, but we might make a few bucks from it first.

Dave

Congratulations Dave on the new baby in the family that is so
special for us old guys, we are having some of the children over
as well lately, I hope the health issues get ironed out.

I am watching your motor posts and even tho I am a new
comers to how this all works I basically enjoy the fact that you
are going to succeed and one more thing, I agree with you
on just giving away ALL of your secrets to those who would
run to the patent office stealing your life's work.

God Bless.

PS the boost convert secret is a great addition to the mix.

[Turion]

Boost converter

Everything I learned about running loads on potential difference I learned either FROM Matt or BECAUSE of Matt. He introduced me to the Benitez patents, and the more you read of Benitez, the more you will understand that THE only problem Benitez had with running EVERYTHING, and I do mean EVERYTHING off of potential differences was MAINTAINING the potential difference at a specific voltage required by the load (between the positives.) He did not have the electrical components we have today. The boost circuit does EXACTLY what he tried FOREVER to accomplish. (At least for DC voltages) If that is not enough of a hint for people, I GIVE UP trying to help anybody out with anything. We showed everybody the boost circuit MONTHS ago and sat back and waited to see what would happen. Either the people who have figured it out have gone dark, nobody has TRIED it, or (my personal opinion) only a very few are BUILDING anything.

I believe EVERYTHING that runs on DC power should be run off the potential difference. The same could be said for AC, but most folks don't have the equipment lying around to make THAT happen, so take the first step and do it with DC. Or don't. There are some pretty sharp folks out there who have made some contributions to our community who I am pretty sure are doing the same thing with AC RIGHT NOW, but that's not something to mess with if you don't know what you are doing. Some of my stuff is putting out over 400 volts continuous DC, so I know how tricky that can be. One mistake is all it takes and you are DONE.

[Mario]

Hi Dave,

do you use the boost circuit between the pos. only to run the load at a steady voltage, or do you also use another one to route power back to the primary batts? If yes, since you said "run everything between the positives", I suppose you run that also from between the positives (I don't think you'd take it from the parallel batts).
Or do you just let the series batts run down and swap periodically with the parallel batts?(or a pair that's rested). If yes to what voltage do you let them run down?

I ask because besides my motor/generator stuff bench I also have a solid state stuff bench where I'm working on this or similar kind of things.

regards,
Mario

[Matthew Jones]

Hi Dave,

do you use the boost circuit between the pos. only to run the load at a steady voltage, or do you also use another one to route power back to the primary batts? If yes, since you said "run everything between the positives", I suppose you run that also from between the positives (I don't think you'd take it from the parallel batts).
Or do you just let the series batts run down and swap periodically with the parallel batts?(or a pair that's rested). If yes to what voltage do you let them run down?

I ask because besides my motor/generator stuff bench I also have a solid state stuff bench where I'm working on this or similar kind of things.

regards,
Mario

@Mario,
You cannot charge a battery that is discharging. You can add power to point but in the long run it will be better to use whatever extra power you have to charge a battery. The regulator is in place to counter the potential difference between the High and Low pole. Keeping your load running strong.
How you rotate the batteries is not pertinent to the system.

Matt

[Mario]

@Mario,
You cannot charge a battery that is discharging. You can add power to point but in the long run it will be better to use whatever extra power you have to charge a battery. The regulator is in place to counter the potential difference between the High and Low pole. Keeping your load running strong.
How you rotate the batteries is not pertinent to the system.

Matt

Hi Matt,

I agree with not charging a battery that's discharging, just wanted to check what you were doing. Or, if one has to, it's better doing back popping with a cap when the primaries are off for a moment (Bedini style), but it's better avoiding that also.

I was also wondering what kind of power you take off between the pos. with relation to battery size. do you stay within the C20 limit of the primaries?

regards,
Mario

[dragon]

The only reason you cannot charge a battery while it's being discharged is because the charge source is less than the load requirement. An example of charging while being discharged would be a basic solar system with the batteries connected to a solar panel and inverter. If the charge source is greater than the load requirement the source is shared between feeding the load and charging - if the load is greater than the source charge then the load shares between the incoming charge and stored energy in the battery.

[Matthew Jones]

Hi Matt,......

I was also wondering what kind of power you take off between the pos. with relation to battery size. do you stay within the C20 limit of the primaries?

regards,
Mario

You don't have to worry about me or anyone else for that matter. Just put something together and find out what works. If the batteries don't like what your doing they'll tell ya.

Cheers
Matt

[Matthew Jones]

The only reason you cannot charge a battery while it's being discharged is because the charge source is less than the load requirement. An example of charging while being discharged would be a basic solar system with the batteries connected to a solar panel and inverter. If the charge source is greater than the load requirement the source is shared between feeding the load and charging - if the load is greater than the source charge then the load shares between the incoming charge and stored energy in the battery.

That may be true, but in a potential system you will never pull a load, catch the extra power and put back more in the battery that is delivering that energy. You can only charge the charging battery. We are not talking about a car or a solar system.

Matt

[Turion]

Response

All,
I'm not trying to be an ass about this, but based on some things that have been said, I'm NOT sure everyone here has a real understanding of potential based systems, so I am going to take you through "Potential Based Systems 101." You may already know all this. If so, I apologize, but I am sure it will benefit SOMEONE.

First, let me throw out MY two bit theory of electricity as it specifically pertains to DC power from a battery. I believe the power comes out of the battery, goes through the load with absolutely MINIMAL losses, and back into the other side of the battery where that power DIES. It isn't the load that "kills" the power, it is the battery itself. If you can keep from sending that power into the ground on the battery to die, you can use it over and over and over. Hence my attraction to potential based systems.

Imagine you have four batteries you have charged up to MAX with your charger. It couldn't possibly raise the voltage in any of those batteries by .01 volts if you left the charger on for days. (TRY THIS...I have)

Is the charge that is in each battery going to be exactly the same as the charge in all the other batteries? I doubt it. They will probably ALL be different. Now if you connect all the positives together and all the negatives together and let the batteries sit overnight, what will happen? You will come out the next morning and all four batteries will have EXACTLY the same charge in them. WHY? Because that energy flows like water and wants to equalize. And here is the interesting part. The batteries that were high went DOWN but the batteries that were lower went UP, EVEN THOUGH YOUR CHARGER HAD CHARGED THEM TO THE MAX. You actually increased the POTENTIAL of these batteries to receive energy by doing this. Some batteries went "down" but did you "lose" this energy, or did it just transfer over to the batteries that were lower and went up? Try it and YOU tell ME.

Take two of these batteries and put them in series to make one big battery that has a positive and a negative. You now have a 24 volt "big" battery. For purposes of something I will talk about later, I want you to remember that this is the "HIGH VOLTAGE SIDE". Now connect your other two batteries in parallel with the "big" battery. What you really have is a battery that is charged to 24 volts and two batteries that are at 12 volts. If you leave them set, connected in parallel, what do you think is going to happen? The "battery" that is at 24 volts is going to decrease and the two batteries at 12 volts are going to increase. Do you lose any energy, or does it just move from the battery with more energy to the battery with less energy and actually INCREASE the potential of that battery with less energy to absorb a charge? You HAVE to do the simple experiments over and over and over to understand what is going on and how to make the best use of it.

Let's try that same experiment again, but this time between the positive of the big battery and the positives of the two batteries in parallel we place a motor. Now as the energy moves from the 24 volt side to the 12 volt side, it runs the motor. Dos the motor use up this energy as it moves through? Well some is lost as heat in the wires, but mostly NO, it is not lost. It travels through the motor and out the other side and equalizes the batteries just like before, only it ran our load along the way...basically for free. TRY IT WITH and WITHOUT the motor and compare the results. This motor was not really a "LOAD" because it USED no (or very little) energy.

And it isn't the "load" that determines how much power moves through it, it is the potential difference.

For instance, if I have two batteries in series...One is charged to 12.2 and the other is charged to 12.7....Their combined voltage when wired in series is 24.9.
When you put a load between the positives of these two batteries in series and a third battery that is charged to 12.9, you have a potential difference of 12 volts. If what you are trying to run needs EXACTLY 12 volts to run, it will immediately start running. And will probably run for a while before stopping. Why will it stop? Because as battery 3 charges to greater than 12.9 and the total voltage of the two in series drops to less than 24.9, you no longer have the potential difference of 12 volts to run the load. It's that simple. Thats why a 12 volt motor is a great load. It will run on less than 12 volts, so can continue running even though the potential difference goes down. But at some point, when the batteries in series have gone down and the batteries in parallel have gone up, the potential difference is so little that the motor stops. You should have switched batteries around long before that. This change in the potential difference was the thing that Benitez fought to deal with for YEARS, because the load will no longer run.

You really need a minimum of three sets of two batteries. Two in series providing the 24 volt side. Two in parallel to be charged. And two that are resting after being charged. It would be even better, if you could afford it, to have one extra set of two. The batteries that have just been discharged could move to a rest position to recover, and two batteries that WERE in this rest position move into the position to be charged. If you follow one group of batteries through the cycle it would be
1. Provide power (in series)
2. Rest
3. Charge (in parallel)
4. Rest

Now the boost circuit assures that the voltage that is hitting the charging batteries is HIGH enough to assure proper charging, and it EXTENDS the time that this happens. Because it accepts a "range of voltages" and puts it out at 16 volts (when you set it to) it continues to hit the charging batteries with 16 volts even when the potential difference has gone down below 12 volts a ways.

When do you want to switch batteries around??? When the charge hitting the charge batteries drops below two volts above the charge battery voltage. Because a DC motor PULSES, the charge that hits the charging batteries is a PULSED CHARGE, and you want it to be 2 volts over the battery voltage at all times. The boost circuit takes care of this. With careful management, you can make sure your charging batteries are always being properly charged.

This is a potential based system. You are not USING the power, you are moving it around to do work without sending it to ground and destroying it.

If the motor you are running with this system is used to turn a generator you have a bit of extra power to top off your batteries from time to time, or take one generator coil and use it to cap dump charge a couple batteries to go into the rotation once in a while. No matter HOW you look at it, this is the basis of an over unity system. How FAR over unity is up to you. How big a generator can you run with that motor? How efficient it it? How much power will it put out?

Oh, and then what if the output of the GENERATOR you are running becomes the HIGH VOLTAGE SIDE (remember I talked about that above) of a BIGGER potential based system. That runs a BIGGER motor that turns a BIGGER generator. Work your way up until you are running the country on your eight 12 volt batteries.

AM I crazy? Oh yeah!