Basic Free Energy Device

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

John,

John Bedini was clear on the orientation of winding the coil. His suggestion was what some call the right hand rule: If you hold the coil in your right hand, start winding at the bottom and go in the direction that your fingers are pointing. Starting at the bottom is not important, but then his drawings generally showed the bottom wire being the inside starting end.

But...he also said that if your coil was wound in the opposite direction that you could simply turn it upside down so that the poles would be right for his machines. It was about the correct pole attracting in the next magnet that really counted. But the specified winding was supposed to work a little better. I've always wondered if that would be the opposite is we were below the equator, like the way water spins in the opposite direction below the equator. (?)

Bob

[yaro1776]

Incremental Progress

Gents,

I did receive the booster converters last week and managed to get in a few trial runs as a shakedown cruise for the 3 batt circuit (Garden Tractor 230 cca)with DC bulbs as a load. Unfortunately my training wheels fell of a couple of times resulting in a blown cap on one booster board (pilot error) and a couple of blown 12v bulbs (pilot error again). No inverter in system for these runs!

Not much in the way of data as these runs were more a familiarization of the setup and its characteristics - a work in progress to understand the various factors in play. That being said, I will verify that the serial Batt2 does absorb the brunt of the load, while Batt1 remains relatively stable.

This setup charges Batt3 very rapidly leaving little time for fine tuning for the beginner - so, added as a corrective factor was a larger battery in parallel to slow this down. Works!

The load for this system was a 12 watt DC bulb for the training runs - the voltage to the bulb was varied from 13.7v to 15.3v. Will add more load as the testing becomes more defined. The tweaking of the booster pot will stabilize the Batt2 voltage - more play is needed here.

Comments - the wiring screws on the recommended booster converter leave something to be desired. The booster under a low input voltage exhibits a flashing behavior (~9-10v) and further voltage reduction (~8-9v) puts it into a default dim mode, useful...

Thanks to Matt and Turion for making this thread a great experience - obsession, no, not as yet. More to come...

Happy Fourth,
Yaro

[altrez]

After much testing I have noticed that over the 21 battery's I have tested they all keep losing power even after a fresh charge. I used a BK 601 to test each battery:

https://www.amazon.com/PRECISION-BAT...+precision+601

Here is a sample result.



I emailed the company to see if there is a way to make sure the calibration is correct.



-Altrez

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Hola,

I've been running various combinations with this system, trying to use more power across the Positives. Here are some numbers on today's test that worked fairly well. Last night I got to thinking about the tests that I ran yesterday where I put 2 batteries in each Primary position (Batteries 1 & 2) and just 1 battery for position 3, the charge battery.

The reason for this was that it seemed from other tests that if the charge battery was high, then I didn't need to add so much with the Boost Module in order to get the combined Boost Module voltage + Motor voltage + charge batteries voltage to be 2.5-3V over the Primaries. So I thought that if the capacity of the charge battery was smaller, it would rise quicker in relation to the Primaries. I didn't have good success with that, but it was worth trying and might be useful somewhere.

But last night it dawned on me that if I have 24V for the Primary and 12V for the charge battery, then I have to come up with over half of the needed voltage in order to be 2.5-3V higher than the Primary, BUT if I use 36V on the Primary and 24V as the charge battery then I only need to come up with a little over 1/3 of it. !!!

I set that up this morning and have been adjusting it all over the place all day and it seems to be just as frugal with a variety of settings. My numbers have gone up and down all day, of course, but the bottom line is that at 0945 the Primaries were at 36.74V and the charge batteries were 26.89V and at 2140 (a few minutes ago) the Primaries are at 36.78V and the charge batteries are at 26.90V. So both are higher after running a motor all day. I like that.

All the batteries were 12v, 230CCA EverStart U1-7 from Walmart. The motor is really cool, an American-Bosch 0-110V DC, 5A max. (about 3" dia. x 4" w/ 1/2" shaft), #2229027 M030MM. Two unidentifiable Chinese Boost Modules were used. I have included pic s and drawing below.

I only measured the voltages of the battery banks (Primary bank and charge bank). I have a battery analyzer...I should measure before and after with it next time. Here's the numbers that I have:

0945 P 36.74V, ch 26.89V, motor 1099 rpm
1030 P 36.78V, ch 26.89V, motor 1089 rpm
1300 P 36.82V, ch 26.90V, motor ?
1600 P 36.81V, ch 26.91V, motor ?
2140 P 36.78V, ch 26.90V, motor 1153 rpm

The earliest measurements of the day were P37.30V ch25.37V, motor725rpm
They changed constantly until the system settled, giving the above numbers. Some of the time I ran the motor at over 2000 rpm and although the Primary would drop some, the charge batteries would go up quickly and as you see at the end of the day the faster running (ie. bigger load) didn't seem to matter.

The Boost Module pots are not sensitive enough for fine adjustment...that's a problem. I had to run a 2nd Boost Module because the charge battery rose so fast that the main Boost Module (splitting the positives and powering the motor) would drop out because of low potential difference. I finally devised tuning for the 2nd Boost Module like this: I would turn both Boost Modules up to get everything running, then I would turn the 2nd Boost Module down until the main Boost Module dropped out (motor slows), then back up until the main Boot Module cuts back in (motor speeds up). This is the lowest draw on the charge battery. Now you're ready to set the main Boost Module were you want it.

I also found that if the charge battery was still not charging, then turn the main Boost Module up (motor speeds up) and voila! more charging.

I'm thinking about letting the system run all night. (?) I'm waiting on an inverter I bought to come in. The Stanley worked OK, but it had no fuse or over-voltage protection, so I've gone through 5 of them (sure glad I bought that product protection plan for $4). I use the inverter to charge my 6 garden batteries at one time off my 24V solar system. It should be here soon.

OK, good luck. This works. I hope that we can build larger systems that will yield usable power soon. The principle is here...what do we need to do to really capitalize on it. As you can see, everything I used was simple and of reasonable cost, BUT it was NOT just a random smattering of whatever I had laying around from failed experiments of two years ago. Use identical batteries. Don't waste you time and get frustrated.

Oh, Matt, thanks for clarifying that it was the data on my phone that was low.

Take care, enjoy,

Bob

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Update

Well,

I ran the system all night and this morning it was down some: P 36.70V, CH 26.91V. I'm going to run it and adjust it for a while today to see if it holds here. If so, then the problem is in keeping the balance. If not, then back to the drawing board.

I've got something else that I want to try. We'll see.

Stay tuned,

Bob

PS- I found that I can get PowerBright inverters at HomeDepot. You have order online, but you can pick it up at the store if you want (no shipping). The 400W was about what the Stanley 500W costs, but the PowerBright has over-voltage protection and an external fuse that the Stanley lacks. I got the protection plan ($7) because I'm always pushing it out of the box, either accidentally or not.

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Hey,

I put together a 48V/24V system and ran the same motor as before with a pot limiting the motor speed to around 1200 rpm. The charge battery 5 went to 15.84V very quickly, so I put a Boost Module on it and ran 13.8V over to Primary battery 1's positive terminal. Battery 5 fell to mid to low 12V and after a while of seeing it continue downward I took it off. So this experiment was severely compromised.

Before starting the test, I had rested the batteries for well over an hour and then checked each one with the Battery Analyzer. After about a 1.5 hour run, I let everything rest for over an hour and check them again with the Battery Analyzer. That info is attached below as a PDF. The following numbers are from my multimeter.

At rest at 1306, the banks measured P 49.40V, ch 25.12
at 1310 they were P48.7V, ch 28.01 (battery 5 up to 15.84V)
At this point I added the Boost Module.
At 1316 they were at P 49.20V, ch 25.46V (B5 13.04V, B6 12.40V)
At 1407 they were at P 48.90V, ch 25.35V (B5 12.85V, B6 12.48V)
I then took off the Boost Module because ch batteries kept dropping.
At 1437 they were at P 48.60V, ch 28.37V (B5 15.87V, B6 12.49V)
Battery 5 was at 15.87V and I stopped the test.

I keep looking at the numbers. Maybe Matt can pull some meaning out them. It is interesting that the CCA of all the batteries (except B6 which was low on charge) were in excess of manufacture's CCA specs after being run on the 3BGS. I have been using these same batteries only with the 3BGS and have been charging them off my 24V solar system with an inverter between the positives.

I see that my PDF with the Battery Analyzer info is attached as a link to be clicked on.

Good luck, enjoy,

Bob

[Matthew Jones]

Hey,

I put together a 48V/24V system and ran the same motor as before with a pot limiting the motor speed to around 1200 rpm. The charge battery 5 went to 15.84V very quickly, so I put a Boost Module on it and ran 13.8V over to Primary battery 1's positive terminal. Battery 5 fell to mid to low 12V and after a while of seeing it continue downward I took it off. So this experiment was severely compromised.

Before starting the test, I had rested the batteries for well over an hour and then checked each one with the Battery Analyzer. After about a 1.5 hour run, I let everything rest for over an hour and check them again with the Battery Analyzer. That info is attached below as a PDF. The following numbers are from my multimeter.

At rest at 1306, the banks measured P 49.40V, ch 25.12
at 1310 they were P48.7V, ch 28.01 (battery 5 up to 15.84V)
At this point I added the Boost Module.
At 1316 they were at P 49.20V, ch 25.46V (B5 13.04V, B6 12.40V)
At 1407 they were at P 48.90V, ch 25.35V (B5 12.85V, B6 12.48V)
I then took off the Boost Module because ch batteries kept dropping.
At 1437 they were at P 48.60V, ch 28.37V (B5 15.87V, B6 12.49V)
Battery 5 was at 15.87V and I stopped the test.

I keep looking at the numbers. Maybe Matt can pull some meaning out them. It is interesting that the CCA of all the batteries (except B6 which was low on charge) were in excess of manufacture's CCA specs after being run on the 3BGS. I have been using these same batteries only with the 3BGS and have been charging them off my 24V solar system with an inverter between the positives.

I see that my PDF with the Battery Analyzer info is attached as a link to be clicked on.

Good luck, enjoy,

Bob

I am not sure exactly why but usually you see a decrease in internal resistance as well as an increase amp hour capacity, which Cold Cranking Amps is pretty much the same thing. If you lower the internal resistance that means there is more storage capacity, flow capacity and charge capacity, ect....

I believe it has to do with dipole separation during charging. The current that is not received into the crystal structure is not shorted to an opposite charge but converted to the opposite polarity and passed around. All the while your not creating heat to evaporate the fluid at some level.

I know in certain circuits you see less heat overall in components so you raise efficiency on an overall circuit. This is do to dipole currents kept separate. When dipoles come together they short each other and release heat.

The more you look the more you'll find. Lots of benefits.


Matt

[Turion]

DC to DC Boost Module

Just be aware, as I have said before, some boost modules won't run when run in this setup. Hopefully you got lucky.

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Matt,

Thanks for the input. After more runs, it looks as if the battery CCAs are comparatively getting better and better.

BroMickey,

Looks like a cool Boost Module. Can you provide a link for buying it? What did it cost? Let us know if it works. What Dave was referring to is that some of these modules have circuitry that just won't run between the positives and have the load ground back to the same lower voltage positive.

Personally, I'd prefer to find a low tech alternative for raising the voltage.

Bob

[i_ron]

Personally, I'd prefer to find a low tech alternative for raising the voltage.

Bob

As I suggested...another single cell 2 volt battery... or one or two cells of a six volt battery.

The old six volt batteries had the bars exposed on top of the battery, so you had access to 2, 4, or 6 volts

Two six volt batteries, One in the charge position as has been shown in some of the schematics, then swap.

Ron

edit: Actual cell voltage 2,2 volts. But the charge battery needs to see close to 14 volts is my understanding so
the voltage from 1 plus 2 less the voltage drop of your motor or inverter.

[Turion]

additional 2.7 volts

i_ron,

I don't believe what you suggested will work. Here's why I believe that.

If you add the 2 volt cell to the primaries you get say 26 volts from the three batteries in series (12+12+2) pulsed through either the inverter or the motor to the 12 volt charge battery. That is a difference of 14 volts, (26 volts in minus the 12 volts in the charge battery = 14 volts) so the lower battery will charge because of the 2 volt difference and the fact that you are PULSING it.

But now you have the 14 volts coming into the charge battery plus the 12 volts of the charge battery IN SERIES going down the NEGATIVE to try and charge the primaries, and that's 26 volts trying to charge the 26 volts of the three batteries in series, and that is NOT 2 volts over, so the primaries will NOT charge from the negative and will continue to go down in voltage.

When using a boost converter, the primaries are at 24 volts total, but you have 26 volts going out of the converter. This is 14 volts higher than the low battery, so the low battery gets that extra two volts needed for charging. The 14 volts in plus the 12 volts in the charge battery = 26 volts going down the negative and hitting the primaries. This is two volts over what is in the primaries, so they charge from the negative side.

This is what we have been saying all along. This is WHY this system can work and HOW it works. Unless you have these differences, nothing will charge and you will LOSE power. If you can maintain the balances, you can maintain the system. As soon as either side drops below, you start losing power.

A LARGER system has more flexibility and is easier to keep running on the potential differences. A smaller system is much tougher, but it CAN be done.

How do we get that two volt difference on BOTH sides? Boost converter or wound transformer. Take your pick, but remember, it needs to be close to three volts difference, and it needs to be PULSED.

_________________________

On another note, my machinist showed up today out of the blue with my generator that I have been waiting patiently for. I ran it quickly to make sure nothing was flying apart, and sure enough, we hooked it up backwards and unthreaded a nut off the motor shaft that caused all manner of evil results that I spent the last few hours fixing. In the process of testing and messing with things, I ran the batteries down, and they are on the charger so I can run tests tomorrow. This is a NEW, LARGER motor, so results will be different than they were with the smaller motor. From a dead stop, under load it was pulling 15 amps at 36 volts or 540 watts. This is far MORE than what I said the other day, but I am just reporting facts, not telling tall tales, so sometimes the facts do not make me happy. I need to have the machine running at 2800 rpm to get speed up under load, and it needs to start off in a NO LOAD condition. Tomorrow I will work on getting those conditions put in place and some video done. Starting it under load is not going to get the rpm I need. Tomorrow I will connect it all up to my big light board and see just what it can really do. Then maybe we will have some things to talk about. I know I am getting right at an amp per coil and between 150 and 160 volts per coil at 2200 rpm, so close to 2000 watts. The only question is, what does it COST to get there.

I do know that some of the coils need to be rewound and the core material needs to be replaced to get better results, but it is what it is right now. When we have good numbers, we can start making changes.

Dave

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Today I tried running two identical motors in series between the positives of a 36V Primary bank and a 24V charge bank. I coupled the motors and ran the current so that they spun together, not fighting each other.

The idea was that the voltage would rise as it passed through the first motor and rise again in the second motor. Hopefully, the higher voltages would aid in charging the Primary.

This did not work. The motors ran well, but the Primary consistently dropped. The charge batteries charged, but not s much as the Primary lost. What was interesting was that each individual charge battery gained almost the same (just slightly less) than each individual Primary battery. This might be encouraging if there had been as many charge batteries as Primary batteries.

In the following stats, the batteries are numbered as follows:
B1 is the Primary with its Neg. tied to the Neg. of the charge bank.
B2 is next to it in series.
B3 is the Primary battery whose Pos. terminal is the high voltage Pos.
B4 is the charge battery with its Neg. tied to the Primary Neg.
B5 is the charge battery whose Pos. is the low voltage Pos.

Here’s the results of the Battery Anaylzer, Before and After:

Before
Voltage mOhms CCA
1 12.85 7.93 334
2 12.33 9.57 276
3 12.33 10.84 244
4 12.30 12.50 211
5 12.57 9.94 266

After
Voltage mOhms CCA
1 12.61 7.98 332
2 12.21 10.91 242
3 12.20 13.29 199
4 12.51 9.74 271
5 12.79 9.23 286

It’s interesting to note that the CCA of all batteries is high for there charges as these are all 230 CCA batteries according to the manufacturer.

The test started at 0741 and ran until 1305. The batteries rested until I checked them with the Battery Analyzer at 1620.

I’m looking for a way to raise the voltage without a Boost Module. Perhaps a 12V transformer that outputs 15V. (?) The ideal thing would be something that could simply be put in series with a motor so that the motor would pulse it. A regular transformer would guzzle a lot of current from high voltage Pos. to the low voltage Pos. through its primary coil and the motor probably couldn’t run on the secondary even though it was a slightly higher voltage. But if a single wire device from the high voltage Pos. converted the watts to higher voltage with lower amps, then this could go through the motor and on to the low voltage Pos.

I’m just dreaming. I’m not aware of such a thing. Does it exist? Any ideas.

BroMickey, thanks for the info and links.

i ron, I think I understand what you’re suggesting, but I don’t see how that is any different than starting with the charge batteries 2-3 volts higher. I did experience that such did help, but it also drops the potential difference between the Pos. We need to come up with something other than batteries. In fact, once we get something that cycles the extra volts around and keeps the Primary up, then we get rid of the batteries and use caps, etc.

I bought a 400W PowerBright inverter and, boy, is it nice. It has an external fuse and over-voltage protection, neither of which were on the Stanley inverter. I took the Stanley back and ordered the PowerBright online from Home Depot. I picked it up at the store…no shipping charge. If you buy one of these, get some 40A car fuses at the auto parts store.

Take care all,

Bob

PS -As I was posting this I notice that Dave just posted too.

[Matthew Jones]

Stock Motors lower the voltage on the output side.. This has been mentioned in the past.

Matt

[OrionLightShip]

This is not me!! http://www.energeticforum.com/member...matthew_jones/
Matt

That looks like my next door neighbor when I lived in Rutherford County, NC

[Wistiti]

Hi to all the builders here!
I finally recieve my boost converter! (it take more than 1 month!!!) This little module are really greath things! I have play with it a bit, but now i'm in vacations with my familly so no much time on it...

I have something i whant to try with this... i will show you guys when i have finish and test it.

just letting you know im still on it!
Ciao!