Basic Free Energy Device

[Wistiti]

This is a shunt regulator which could be re-purposed as a cap dump circuit. Generally used to dump energy without allowing a load ( like a wind turbine ) to run free - always loaded. I've built a few of these long ago and they work exceptionally well.

Thank you very much Dragon for this circuit!
So as i see it the input is on the left side (where the bat is) and the output is on the right side (where the 250w resistor is)... Is this correct?

[citfta]

Here is the cap dump circuit Bob has been using.

[Wistiti]

Here is the cap dump circuit Bob has been using.

[voltan]

that's a neat dual battery jt circuit dragon. simple and efficient.
cheers.

[wantomake]

Similar

Hey guys,

I should have another Razor Scooter motor to modify today (UPS), and a part for my other one is coming from Dave Bowling, so maybe next week I'll have two of Matt's motors to test with. Also, I am expecting a rotor for a setup mimicking Dave's generator soon.

Wistiti, I want to get away from solid-state components because I can't fix them and don't feel confident in checking them to find a problem when the system goes down, although I am pretty sure about things when I see smoke coming out of one. lol

I was using a Boost Module with the inverter because the potential difference dropped so fast that the inverter couldn't function. But this only happens on a small system. My large solar battery bank is big enough that the inverter has no problem at all until the solar panels RAISE the voltage above of the inverter's range. At night, the charging batteries may go up into the 15Vs while the 24V set is sitting at 25.8V and then my refrigerator kicks on and pulls the potential difference below 10V. Other than that, it works fine.

I said that to say that a larger system doesn't need a Boost Module to run an inverter between the positives. My plans are to do this and use two Bedini 2A12-EX battery chargers plugged into the inverter to keep the two Primaries up. We'll see. If that works, then we'll have to see how much more we can pull off the inverter -all of which would be free.

I was positively impressed with running a transformer in series with a motor between the positives of the 3BGS. It didn't seem to adversely affect the overall performance. I was easily able to produce 30V to over 100V DC, but just putting that to the batteries doesn't work. It needs to go to a cap and dumped at 2-3 volts over the Primary. I was getting there until I did something that blew the cap dump that Carroll built for me. I'll need his help to fix it. (damn solid-state...just kidding)

I have tried using a Zener to control the gate of a SCR and dump a cap, but the SCR seems to remain latched and the voltage of the cap just keeps rising. I'm guessing that the incoming high voltage from the transformer is doing this. I have used this arrangement before, but I guess the incoming voltage was always lower than the Zener value. Any suggestions?

Good luck,

Bob

Hey Bob,
My goals are similar to what you are doing.

I too try to stay away from solid state. I have a modified Matt motor as generator driven by a stock my1016 motor. The solar panels are disconnected. I did receive a better boost converter from my daughter that is : "DC 8-60V to 10-120V 900W numerical control CC CV step up module with digital tube display, maximum current is 15A, with a fan to dissipate heat".

The motor/generator setup runs between the positives, while the inverter(2k watt) runs off the seven in parallel #3 batteries. I get long runs with small loads. But as we back yard inventors do, I want to run my house off a AA battery.

I did as Dave said, can balance the 3BGS to good long runs. Now attempting Matt's proposed way to have separate circuits working to power the charge batteries.

Sorry not posting schematic or anything until I get something working.
Thanks for all who help out here,
wantomake

[dragon]

An update from post 1204, the MPPT controller didn't increase the return rate as I had hoped, it was slightly less than the original Buck converter test. The best run I've had with it was by controlling the pulse from the charged cap back to the battery bank. All 3 methods were less than my expectations for energy return. I plan to pursue the 2 battery switch and variations of this as this has exceeded my 80% return mark which gives me a path to achieve my 10amp goal.

I'd like to thank Matt, Dave, and Bob for the inspiration that brought me to this point, if there is anything I can do for you let me know.

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Hey guys,

Thank you all for your kind words and suggestions. Carroll's cap dump is great, I'll have to get it going again.

The SCR triggered by a Zener works, but I think it won't work if the incoming voltage to the cap is higher than the Zener reverse voltage. Yes, the SCR latches closed as long there is current flowing, which allows it to fall below the Zener voltage and reset automatically. Very simple, just not for this situation.

Matt, I'm winding one of your Razor Scooter modifications using the attached drawing. It says, "3 strands of 24 AWG". Is that 3 strands per turn (the 40 turns has 3 strands, the 30 turns has 3 strands) or is it one strand of 40 turns, then one strand of 30 turns, and one strand of 30 turns?

Thanks,

Bob

[Matthew Jones]

Hey guys,

Thank you all for your kind words and suggestions. Carroll's cap dump is great, I'll have to get it going again.

The SCR triggered by a Zener works, but I think it won't work if the incoming voltage to the cap is higher than the Zener reverse voltage. Yes, the SCR latches closed as long there is current flowing, which allows it to fall below the Zener voltage and reset automatically. Very simple, just not for this situation.

Matt, I'm winding one of your Razor Scooter modifications using the attached drawing. It says, "3 strands of 24 AWG". Is that 3 strands per turn (the 40 turns has 3 strands, the 30 turns has 3 strands) or is it one strand of 40 turns, then one strand of 30 turns, and one strand of 30 turns?

Thanks,

Bob

Its just 3 strands all the time. I think the total was 100 turns.

I am not sure who told you an SCR will work for a cap dump. An SCR gets turned on then stays on until the current stops flowing. If your isolating your Capacitor then you have to wait until the cap equalizes to the charge point. Then the SCR will shut off as long as the zener isn't holding it on. But if you are dumping straight from the source the SCR will not shut off.
I am not avoiding solid state components because I know how they work. LOL. Someone lied to you if they said an SCR is a good choice.

Matt

[Peter Lindemann]

SCRs and Cap Dump Circuits

Hey Guys,

Back in 2004 and 2005 when I was working with John, we DID get some circuits to work with an SCR providing a Cap Dump. The conditions necessary for it to work required that the source of charge to the cap was in discrete pulses, such as the output from a relaxation oscillator, SG circuit, or the like.

If the source charge to the cap is continuous current, then Matt is right, the SCR will not re-latch under normal circumstances. But IF there are discrete and periodic NULLS in the source current, (meaning that the voltage across the SCR drops to ZERO) then the SCR can re-latch and the SCR can be used to provide the cap dump.

John also demonstrated the ability to turn SCRs off whenever he wanted to, but I have no idea how he did it. So, if you experiment in this area and get lucky, you might find something. Otherwise, trying to use SCRs in cap dump circuits are, as Matt said, "not a good choice."

The point is, SCRs can be used to provide a cap dump control, but the methods have very strict limitations.

I'm pretty sure that John's current Comparator Controlled cap-dump circuits use FETs to cut off the cap dump before the cap voltage equalizes with the battery it is being used to charge. FETs are definitely used in the 2A12 EX battery charger, which is a 24 volt cap dump charger for 12 volt batteries.

Awesome thread guys!!!

Peter

[Wistiti]

Hey Guys,

Back in 2004 and 2005 when I was working with John, we DID get some circuits to work with an SCR providing a Cap Dump. The conditions necessary for it to work required that the source of charge to the cap was in discrete pulses, such as the output from a relaxation oscillator, SG circuit, or the like.

If the source charge to the cap is continuous current, then Matt is right, the SCR will not re-latch under normal circumstances. But IF there are discrete and periodic NULLS in the source current, (meaning that the voltage across the SCR drops to ZERO) then the SCR can re-latch and the SCR can be used to provide the cap dump.

John also demonstrated the ability to turn SCRs off whenever he wanted to, but I have no idea how he did it. So, if you experiment in this area and get lucky, you might find something. Otherwise, trying to use SCRs in cap dump circuits are, as Matt said, "not a good choice."

The point is, SCRs can be used to provide a cap dump control, but the methods have very strict limitations.

I'm pretty sure that John's current Comparator Controlled cap-dump circuits use FETs to cut off the cap dump before the cap voltage equalizes with the battery it is being used to charge. FETs are definitely used in the 2A12 EX battery charger, which is a 24 volt cap dump charger for 12 volt batteries.

Awesome thread guys!!!

Peter

Are you welling to share your experiment with us???

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Thanks for the info on the motor Matt.

Thank you, Matt and Peter, for the SCR parameters.

Bob

[i_ron]

Here is the first run, seems to be working...

This is my Phil Woods 16/24 replication with Somaloy cores, modified as a motor generator... just running as a motor in this shot.

Ron

[IMG]image hosting 30 mb[/IMG]

[i_ron]

Here is the first run, seems to be working...

Ron

]

Charging a second battery from the generator

Ron

[IMG]image url[/IMG]

[Turion]

First, let me say that I believe THE most efficient design is a machine that has the motor coils and generator coils on the same machine. That is where I have ALWAYS been headed, but to get there I believe it is important for people to understand the DIFFERENCE between using a coil as a motor coil and using it as a generating coil. Matt's little motor is a perfect example of what you want a motoring coil to do. It takes in energy, BOOSTS it, and sends it out (to the charge battery at THIS point).

So once you have all that working, you can start looking at a simple rotor on that motor shaft that produces power. When you have the coils that put out power WITHOUT slowing down the motor you have reached COP of >1 or 2.

But it is the step after that when things really get exciting. When you start using the output of one or two of your gen coils to run your motor because it's amp draw and voltage requirements are so low. THEN it is time to put it all together into one unit.

At least that was the road I intended to take people down, step by step. I know there are some watching who disagree with that approach, but I thought it was important for people to understand what is going on inside the machine and you can best do that by keeping the motor separate from the generator for a while. I started the "Basic Free Energy Device" thread talking about John's original machine which DID keep them separate, and that was for a REASON. I know he eventually went to a motor/generator design with the SSG, but there is much to learn about running the motor between potentials. A generator coil is ALSO a source of potential difference. So is a cap charged by a gen coil.

We didn't start by building 747's. We started with a rickity old plane with men strapped to the wings.

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Rant

OK guys,

I’m pissed. I have seen a pattern happen to me for years and I would like to know what the hell is going on and how to capitalize on it.

What I have experienced over and over again is, the first time I do something, I get great results. But when I keep the ‘thang’ going, the good results evaporate! So I get something happening, have run it for an hour or two and it’s great, so I call a friend or post it, and then from then on it’s crap. So I look like a fool.

Below is an experiment that I did two days ago. I started in the morning with batteries that had rested over night. The first round was OU. Great. Then the old pattern kicks in, a continuing tale of woe, UNTIL it all rests over night. Then, OU and the pattern returns.

This experiment was done with 6 identical batteries in the 3BGS setup, two as the Primaries and four as Battery 3. I would run the system until the Primaries got down to around 12V, then I’d stop it and rest them an hour. Then I’d move the Primaries to the end of Battery 3 and move the first two charged batteries to the Primary position. I kept them in order throughout the testing, so each set of batteries got charged twice as long as they were used. I used more batteries in Position 3 so that I wouldn’t have to worry about 3 going too high.(Maybe too many batteries in 3 if we’re going to switch them soon…?)

In the data below, Time is across the top, the ”X” is when I stopped, and all the numbers starting with “12.” are voltages. Here’s the results:


Thanks for listening to my rant. Hope this comes in useful at some point.

Good luck,

Bob

PS –I guess I should have done this post in red. lol