Topic: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[Ufopolitics]

Nice build!

The 4th build is a pincore 120/240 3kw. I didn't have any silicon handy so I made the director plates from a substandard 1008 steel sheet and electrically isolated them using HV 2mil tape. I knew they wouldn't perform as well as silicon but I figured it was good enough for a test and the assembly could be altered in the future.

The first picture shows the field of the original next to the drum assembly I made up to replace it.

Second one shows the drum installed.

Initial tests gave me around 42 volts at just under 2 amps which isn't to terrible considering the steel used. I measured the gauss being transfered into the core and it was quite low, reading around 550 gauss - not even equal to a good ceramic magnet - pretty poor. Lots of room for improvement.

Just as my 3rd build with the 6 pole the Lenz forces are completely redirected into the solid central hub and have no effect on the input so I know I'm heading in the right direction on the upgrade of this build. Calculating the rpm/Hz at the beginning it should have come in at around 1200 rpm but it actually reaches 60hz at 923 which I find a bit puzzling. Also it does output a perfect sine and should as long as the groupings are correct.

This one has 6 poles in the center with 2 rotating directors - 3 poles per sector this helps activate the field power coils which will be used elsewhere. I found you can use as many central poles as you want ( geometry allowing ) as long as they are odd groupings with the least amount being 2. So 3, 5, 7 etc. This one has a 5" hole and is about 3.25" deep so there isn't much room to pack all this stuff in.

Back to the shop to modify a drum.... fun stuff !!!

Hello Dragon,

Nice build Friend!...would love to see it running soon.

Related to the number of Inner Poles...You are right, you can set there as many as Geometry allows...but you still have Two Rotating Iron Elements...about the same exact size as OEM Poles circumference right?

In my understanding of this Original Concept, He uses the same exact number of Poles (4) as the OEM Generator had, and same for the iron elements which are also four. I believe if you 'fragment' the OEM number of poles into more number (whether magnets or electromagnets)...and -of course- they must be of smaller circumference to fit in even a smaller diameter as OEM...you will be weakening the OEM output because of reducing the magnetic field strength in a 'per pole' basis.

What I think this could do is to reduce cogging... the more number of inner poles you could fit there, maintaining the same number of Iron elements as OEM have of Poles.

And that is just my opinion...am not saying that what you are doing is wrong or whatever else...only the real testing will tell.

But you could modify anything later on...like you have said...building the main frame is the big deal...after that is done, everything could be interchanged or modified...and you are doing an excellent work there!, and very professional!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Ufo,
Thanks for taking the time to respond and work up such nice, clear as day images.

Ok, I am still confused, yes, definitely.

Regards

Cadman

Hello Cadman,


I believe I am confusing you even more with my previous post, and it is not my desire at all.

You are right that We see this from different perspectives, and if it works for you the way you see it...then, please, disregard my previous post and continue with your build.

You are right, We both are going away from the main topic, and it is all my fault, not yours.

So, in order to avoid any more confusions, I will not be exposing my point of viewing how Induction works, on this Thread.

And You were also right about Max EMF Output on that Center Line...I was referring to Max Flux Exchange Point, ...two different things...and I believe that is where the whole confusion started, my fault, my bad.


My Apologies and Best Regards.


Ufopolitics

[jimboot]

The 4th build is a pincore 120/240 3kw. I didn't have any silicon handy so I made the director plates from a substandard 1008 steel sheet and electrically isolated them using HV 2mil tape. I knew they wouldn't perform as well as silicon but I figured it was good enough for a test and the assembly could be altered in the future.

The first picture shows the field of the original next to the drum assembly I made up to replace it.

Second one shows the drum installed.

Initial tests gave me around 42 volts at just under 2 amps which isn't to terrible considering the steel used. I measured the gauss being transfered into the core and it was quite low, reading around 550 gauss - not even equal to a good ceramic magnet - pretty poor. Lots of room for improvement.

Just as my 3rd build with the 6 pole the Lenz forces are completely redirected into the solid central hub and have no effect on the input so I know I'm heading in the right direction on the upgrade of this build. Calculating the rpm/Hz at the beginning it should have come in at around 1200 rpm but it actually reaches 60hz at 923 which I find a bit puzzling. Also it does output a perfect sine and should as long as the groupings are correct.

This one has 6 poles in the center with 2 rotating directors - 3 poles per sector this helps activate the field power coils which will be used elsewhere. I found you can use as many central poles as you want ( geometry allowing ) as long as they are odd groupings with the least amount being 2. So 3, 5, 7 etc. This one has a 5" hole and is about 3.25" deep so there isn't much room to pack all this stuff in.

Back to the shop to modify a drum.... fun stuff !!!

Wow looking good Dragon,
What are you driving it with.

[dragon]

Thanks all... the credit goes to syair for initiating thought...

UFO - I missed a few posts while I was gone and it looks like I've got nothing on you in the skills department - very nice ! I agree the more you fragment the inner poles the lower the coging, although it might come with a small price in output. Maybe the right shapes and geometry an optimum design could be found.

The director poles are slightly under OEM on this build and I'm thinking of going a bit smaller. Instead of spanning the full 7 I'm analyzing the outcome of spanning only 4 at a time - this might alter timing a bit. My other thought is reducing the total height of the director and make the inner pole diameter a little larger. I'd like to experiment with different shapes and sizes for the best outcome - using steel sheet - before making a commitment to have the laminates cut in silicon... I'm on a One dollar budget at this point.

JimBoot - Nice work on your end as well ! Your buzzing through ideas faster than I can think... I just completed this build yesterday and haven't had time for a "conventional" motor drive as yet. All my initial tests were done with a battery powered hand drill. I've run it up to around 1500 rpm which is all it will do. The coging on this one is very mild - signs of a poor magnetic circuit.

To all - I realize the stuff you've seen some of us doing is quite daunting to those that don't have access to machines. My first and second build which was reasonably simple, successfully showed the redirected Lenz, was basically 2 coils on a C core and I believe anyone with a little creativity could build. Below is a basic layout of a 2 pole... so... no excuses grab your tools and head out to the scrap pile...

[fer123]

Love your work

The 4th build is a pincore 120/240 3kw. I didn't have any silicon handy so I made the director plates from a substandard 1008 steel sheet and electrically isolated them using HV 2mil tape. I knew they wouldn't perform as well as silicon but I figured it was good enough for a test and the assembly could be altered in the future.

The first picture shows the field of the original next to the drum assembly I made up to replace it.

Second one shows the drum installed.

Initial tests gave me around 42 volts at just under 2 amps which isn't to terrible considering the steel used. I measured the gauss being transfered into the core and it was quite low, reading around 550 gauss - not even equal to a good ceramic magnet - pretty poor. Lots of room for improvement.

Just as my 3rd build with the 6 pole the Lenz forces are completely redirected into the solid central hub and have no effect on the input so I know I'm heading in the right direction on the upgrade of this build. Calculating the rpm/Hz at the beginning it should have come in at around 1200 rpm but it actually reaches 60hz at 923 which I find a bit puzzling. Also it does output a perfect sine and should as long as the groupings are correct.

This one has 6 poles in the center with 2 rotating directors - 3 poles per sector this helps activate the field power coils which will be used elsewhere. I found you can use as many central poles as you want ( geometry allowing ) as long as they are odd groupings with the least amount being 2. So 3, 5, 7 etc. This one has a 5" hole and is about 3.25" deep so there isn't much room to pack all this stuff in.

Back to the shop to modify a drum.... fun stuff !!!

How much distance between center magnets to the rotor and the rotor to coil stator did you find best result up to now? Thanks, we are all exciters for new result.

[jimboot]

just dimly lit an incandescent globe, no lenz drag no extra current consumption.(EDIT- That I can detect) Uploading two videos now. First shows shorted coil, second shows the globe.
Running it on a pulse motor shaft. Consuming 5- 6 watt doing around 5krpm

[jimboot]

Hey guys here is the latest build , I reverted to an older design with some mods that are working really well http://youtu.be/euOnVXwYfEQ

[gotoluc]

To all - I realize the stuff you've seen some of us doing is quite daunting to those that don't have access to machines. My first and second build which was reasonably simple, successfully showed the redirected Lenz, was basically 2 coils on a C core and I believe anyone with a little creativity could build. Below is a basic layout of a 2 pole... so... no excuses grab your tools and head out to the scrap pile...

Hi Dragon,

could you please post a picture of you second build as I'm having difficulty understanding your drawing.

@Jimboot... good progress mate!

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[jimboot]

Hi Guy's here's another lenz test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA3ZOk3kDFk using an incandescent

Also I've taken a scope shot of one of the gen coils which I'm trying to understand

[dragon]

Hi Dragon,

could you please post a picture of you second build as I'm having difficulty understanding your drawing.

@Jimboot... good progress mate!

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Luc - this was the first and second build, second being a modification of the first... the first being simply a pair of magnets then modified for 2 pairs..

Jimboot - Nice work ! It appears your using air core coils as test subjects, you might try a steel washer backing on the coil to help complete the magnetic path through the coil - better saturation better current production.

[dragon]

Jimboot - if you have any telephone relay coils handy they would function extremely well with your set up. I'm not sure of your geographical location but here is a surplus site that sells a variety of them...

Telephone Relays

[gotoluc]

Luc - this was the first and second build, second being a modification of the first... the first being simply a pair of magnets then modified for 2 pairs..

Thanks for the picture

Jimboot - if you have any telephone relay coils handy they would function extremely well with your set up. I'm not sure of your geographical location but here is a surplus site that sells a variety of them...

Telephone Relays

Are those telephone relay coils in your first build?
If so, are they the 12 ohms DCR?

Thanks

Luc

[jimboot]

Jimboot - Nice work ! It appears your using air core coils as test subjects, you might try a steel washer backing on the coil to help complete the magnetic path through the coil - better saturation better current production.

Thanks mate - No im using MOT steels. Also if you can join the steels together between coils you'll get a good jump. I'm looking at getting some steel shot based on Paul Babcock idea.

[gotoluc]

I've been thinking of this effect for a while and what keeps coming back to me is, it seems to be quite the same effect as JLN has noticed when testing Thane Heins ReGen-X coils and found he could produce the same effect just by having more core material between the coil and magnet (as picture)

Could this not be the same effect?... since syairchairun design does adds more distance and core material between coil and magnet?

Just thinking here


JLN video demo of the effect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUoyuiQTrRA

Luc

[dragon]

Thanks for the picture



Are those telephone relay coils in your first build?
If so, are they the 12 ohms DCR?

Thanks

Luc

Those coils were made up for an electromagnet project some time back and I simply converted them for this one.

I have used the 12ohm coils in other projects also the 10k, 5k they produce some interesting results. They might work well for a small test project.

It seems to me I remember watching one of your videos testing the effects of the QEG ( motor in a box? )... seems like that would work well for a similar test base for this. You'd have to isolate the director plates, magnetically, and add some magnets...