Topic: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

a quick test of the thngr's simple build of Ramadan Device

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wP1GSLa_AY

Next I'm working on using the motors bushes and commutator to power the electromagnet coils.

Luc

[dragon]

First picture shows completed parts prior to assembly, second shows the new rotor assembled. Took advantage of the extreme heat friday night ( above freezing ) and finished machining the parts. Saturday morning assembled everything and put the new rotor in the pincore.

Preliminary tests... coging is still high even with the skewed magnet assembly (N45 neo's ). Made up a quick hand crank for it to test and calculate forces. Hand cranking it gave me 1.5 amps shorted - slow cranking. My first rotor required close to 900 rpm to reach just under 2 amps so it looks promising. Solved one problem, still working on the other...
Next, measured the static forces to overcome lock up... 8.38 lbs of force to break lock at a 5.5" radius which comes in at 3.85 ft lbs. My calculation to reach 60hz is 520 rpm.

So... 3.85 ft lbs at 520 rpm's would require .38hp or 284 watts to drive it. Once it's rotating the forces are a bit less but thought it wise to size the drive motor to the static numbers. Now it's time to scrounge up some pulleys, motor and base then do a little reflecting on what I've learned so far...

[prochiro]

Dragon
It looks like your rotor has survived the cold also. Good work. In looking over your pictures, if I am seeing correctly, your skewed magnets and the irons are both turning together as one unit. Is this correct?

Prochiro

[machinealive]

Beautiful work dragon!

[dragon]

Dragon
It looks like your rotor has survived the cold also. Good work. In looking over your pictures, if I am seeing correctly, your skewed magnets and the irons are both turning together as one unit. Is this correct?

Prochiro

The magnets are fixed on the rear shaft ( right shaft in the picture ), this is locked in place and can not move (rotate). The drum with directors rotates over the magnets ( left shaft, input ).

To clarify how it functions... there are 8 director poles and 14 magnets. The magnets are separated into 2 groups of 7 . The top 7 are NSNSNSN and the bottom 7 are reversed SNSNSNS. The top 4 director segments always fall on one pole the bottom 4 on the opposite pole. When it cogs to the next magnet the polarity reverses - so you have top all N, bottom all S then cog to the next magnet in line the top becomes all S and bottom all N. Each cog reverses polarity through the stator... 14 pole reversals per revolution.

[prochiro]

Dragon
That's what I was hoping was going on there but your assembly is so small and tight and simple that it looks as one chunk. It seems as you are shooting in the correct direction with the motor also but a little bigger may also help. I think that we, as in the film, need to reach 1000 rpm to max out the generator potential. Ether way, for now, all is good and you are on the correct path. By the way, what type of iron is that, its shape is well machined also. Also as time goes on, thinning the long edges may by helpful.

Prochiro

[jimboot]

Our builds all seem to be diverging which is great for us rank amateurs I get to learn a lot sweet build machine .

Just a quick update on where I'm heading and why based on my tests.
http://youtu.be/ihwID-Fzrzg

[dragon]

Our builds all seem to be diverging which is great for us rank amateurs I get to learn a lot sweet build machine .

Just a quick update on where I'm heading and why based on my tests.
http://youtu.be/ihwID-Fzrzg

jimboot - How would you define the actions of your build? I find it quite curious and I'll give a little of my own insight of what is going on -
Magnets have their own little "force field" around each one, a bubble field as an analogy, and remains unchanged until another magnetic structure is introduced. When 2 like poles are in close proximity the bubble expands and when unlike fields are close the field contracts. When iron is introduced, ultimately changeable, will take on the characteristics of the field it's introduced to and ultimately re-directs the bubble altering the field.
Your placing your coil in close proximity to the changing bubble. The magnetic field is either expanded into the core of the coil or is directed away from it.

Since it's being pulsed on one end of the core the return path has lots of resistance (air) and can not successfully relax or return to a normal state fast enough to cause large current flow. As an example lets say you bundled a bunch of coat hanger iron together and formed it into a C and slid your coils over that. Then positioned them so the fields were reversing or at the very least causing a bubble and return on opposite ends at different times. If you wire tie these together so they are still somewhat flexible you should be able to find two points on your rotor assembly that gives you the best output...

I've formed stators using coat hangers that worked out quite well - not necessarily the perfect structure but for experimenting they are quick and simple to cut and shape. Bundle the "C's" together to make up multipoles.

Also, run down to the local automotive brake shop ( bring your own box ) and ask for some of their iron shavings from machining brake rotors. The lathe usually has a pile of them in the catch tray and their happy to give you as much as you want.... use some 2 part epoxy or liquid plastic to form your own magnetic structures or form shaped magnetic ends on coat hanger irons. ( Mechanics wire works well also )

It is an interesting avenue you've chosen - Oh... and by the way... we are all amateurs here, looking for a common truth.

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

I made a new version of lumen's Ramadan variation which I call Thane Heins Ramadan Bitt version.

The good news is high current coils can be used and the power dissipated in the core has dropped from 33 Watts (first lumen version) to 10 Watts.
We are also delivering 5 Watts to our 1 Ohm load without the prime mover input power increase.

Link to test video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LK2C4qBY1Y

I would say this is encouraging and further testing and use of better cores like Iron Powder would be on the list to do.

Share your thought if you wish

Luc

[jimboot]

jimboot - How would you define the actions of your build? I find it quite curious and I'll give a little of my own insight of what is going on -
Magnets have their own little "force field" around each one, a bubble field as an analogy, and remains unchanged until another magnetic structure is introduced. When 2 like poles are in close proximity the bubble expands and when unlike fields are close the field contracts. When iron is introduced, ultimately changeable, will take on the characteristics of the field it's introduced to and ultimately re-directs the bubble altering the field.
Your placing your coil in close proximity to the changing bubble. The magnetic field is either expanded into the core of the coil or is directed away from it.

Since it's being pulsed on one end of the core the return path has lots of resistance (air) and can not successfully relax or return to a normal state fast enough to cause large current flow. As an example lets say you bundled a bunch of coat hanger iron together and formed it into a C and slid your coils over that. Then positioned them so the fields were reversing or at the very least causing a bubble and return on opposite ends at different times. If you wire tie these together so they are still somewhat flexible you should be able to find two points on your rotor assembly that gives you the best output...

I've formed stators using coat hangers that worked out quite well - not necessarily the perfect structure but for experimenting they are quick and simple to cut and shape. Bundle the "C's" together to make up multipoles.

Also, run down to the local automotive brake shop ( bring your own box ) and ask for some of their iron shavings from machining brake rotors. The lathe usually has a pile of them in the catch tray and their happy to give you as much as you want.... use some 2 part epoxy or liquid plastic to form your own magnetic structures or form shaped magnetic ends on coat hanger irons. ( Mechanics wire works well also )

It is an interesting avenue you've chosen - Oh... and by the way... we are all amateurs here, looking for a common truth.

The bit that does my head in is the backside of the mag being a good pu point. If I look at Luc's latest build he's not even using it. Doesn't need to. To me he's got two cores that are part of a mag circuit. When the rotor meets the stator , the mag flux flows. It's like it's releasing it from the mag. In my build, I'm trying to snatch it before it dissipates. That latest from Luc has shed more light on things for me. Thanks for the tips on the brake shops

[dragon]

Luc, very interesting - I did almost the exact same thing while playing with the QEG theory. Out of curiosity, how are you cutting your cores? Silicon is really hard on cutting tools...

Jimboot, I use liquid plastics from Smooth-On, Inc. - Mold Making & Casting Materials Rubber, Plastic, Lifecasting, and More for making gears, pulley's and other parts and cores.

[gotoluc]

Here is a quick update of the next logical test of having both N - S poles on the fixed C core.

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h-MTjJ44v8

[gotoluc]

Out of curiosity, how are you cutting your cores? Silicon is really hard on cutting tools...

Jimboot, I use liquid plastics from Smooth-On, Inc. - Mold Making & Casting Materials Rubber, Plastic, Lifecasting, and More for making gears, pulley's and other parts and cores.

Hi dragon,

I agree, laminations of silicon steel is not easy to cut.
I've developed many techniques over the years.
The most important thing is when you make a cut is to have two 1/4" (or thicker) steel plates on each sides of the side of the core material you want to keep. The plates are parallel to the lamination grain and clamped with a lot of pressure using a vice or heavy C-clamps. The plates should be exactly where you're making the cut so they guide your cutting tool as it rests against the plates while cutting.

The finer details are done with a file but you still need the clamped plates to keep the laminations compressed or else, the filings will start to fill between the plates and inflate the core which causes shorts between laminations and the cores become useless.

The tools to cut can be a hacksaw, sawzall (with metal blade) or an angle grinder with super thin cut-off blade.

There are many other things one needs to know about the kind of transformers that are ideal to use. I find MOT's are about the easiest for this. Many techniques also need to be known on how to press out the coils. Basically a vice is used with blocks of wood to press on the correct points as one cranks the vice.

Most of the MOT's are made in China and core lamination quality are not so good but it's usually enough to evaluate if a device is worthy of quality cores which are a very expensive route to take if unsure.

Super glue is great to re-glue liminations that no longer hold or you want to hold sections together.

Hope this helps

Luc

[dragon]

Thanks Luc, I used to cut slots in silicon using a mill with a continuous flow of coolant. Even then I went through cutting bits like candy. I've never cut a MOT core maybe the material has less glass added to the steel. I still have 2 80lb rolls of M19 non oriented and a half roll I've been using for small projects.

Guess I'll have to give your method a shot next time I need a core ! Looks like you have it down to a science...

[jimboot]

Got a scope on things weirdarse waveform. 5ohm resistor over the scope probe. http://youtu.be/tSM57l4DKJE