Topic: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[Dog-One]

This being a very small motor ( 3" rotor ) I didn't expect much output and was primarily interested in measuring torque. Surprisingly it produces about 18 watts but it requires 25 watts to overcome coging forces.

So... it's time for build 4 - something a little larger... Back in January folks happy building !

Very good dragon. Thanks for the update.

Sounds like you set Lenz as it relates to input/output aside.

So we know cogging can be a real issue here. Can you post a pic of your cylinder with the slotted segments. Also, the magnets, are they pretty big and powerful? What RPM range did you test in?

This device may have physical limitations preventing it from scaling to any size you want. Sometimes bigger is better. It very well may take advantage of how quickly the flux propagates the iron. Hopefully everyone saw some of the demonstrations J.L. Naudin did with his Delayed Lenz Effect experiments. What I'm thinking is the length of a piece of iron effect timing, timing is related to RPM; it's also related to frequency. Coils of wire have frequencies they work best at. As they say, timing is everything.

All in all a good show dragon. I'm guessing folks will have some ideas what to try next.

[dragon]

UFO... your arrangement solves the magnet to pole coging problem but introduces another problem with eddy currents in the end plates. This could cause a heating problem.... a fan with a high cfm volume could offset this and if you can use the heat it could be beneficial yet still cause drag on the rotor. Rewinding for a lower rpm would help.

Looking over some Delco 10si parts wouldn't take much to modify this structure to your plan. Solving the other problems may be the key to continuous use... Cool idea indeed !

For DogOne... center magnet structure

[jimboot]

Uploading now. Stay tuned. @ufo I d be interested in your feedback please. I need a new rig but I want to understand the theory more before I build it.

[jimboot]

Here's my latest Generator test 8 - YouTube

[Ufopolitics]

My opinion, Jim...

Uploading now. Stay tuned. @ufo I d be interested in your feedback please. I need a new rig but I want to understand the theory more before I build it.

Hello Jim,

Good test!, no drag when you connect bulb...and if you had a Power Supply showing Amps and Volts...it would not show increase either (I believe)

Now, what I see that you are doing different on this arrangement...is that you are taking the pick up coils iron cores all the way inside the spinning plane...and you do not need to do that...just by being 'near' the rotating plane, but PERPENDICULAR to it, not inside...you will still pick up energy, and not 'add up' to cogging in 'face to face' iron-magnets.

However, the excellent demonstration on your video...is that just by setting this Pick Up Coils iron cores RIGHT NEXT to the Magnets (and not facing them, not Spinning)...but JUST facing the spinning Iron Cores...you get power to light an Incandescent Bulb without any noticeable change on rotation speed.

I would post (later on) some graphics related to a simple way to build a Model, based on this principle.


Regards



Ufopolitics

[RAMSET]

another builder testing his theory

courtesy of TinMan [not his work,his friends work]

from the OUR Thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39Un7-Gsj2c

thx
Chet

[dragon]

UFO, one quick observation ... if the poles are set as you've laid them out in the car alternator drawing it is no different than the having the central field in place. You still have a rotating magnetic field caused by the end magnets (or field coil ) and it will function as a normal alternator. At first look it was brilliant but for some reason it bothered me then I realized why...

[Wistiti]

Wow!

Thank you Jim!
It is a realy interessant video!
Keep gooing

[Dog-One]

Rotor Variation

For DogOne... center magnet structure

Thank you dragon.

Have an idea if you can implement it. Whether it will work or not, I do not know, but it will certainly tell us something useful.

Suppose your cylinder is almost solid steel, but not completely. Hang with me here. What if we divide that cylinder up into say 11 (some odd number) segments and place a small gap between the segments. Use aluminum, copper, plastic, whatever you want as tiny spacers, non-magnetic of course. I'm very curious about two things here: Will the cogging diminish and will you still get usable power from the coils? I'm thinking the gaps between segments should be just slightly larger than the gap between the rotor and the coils.

If you get the desire to try this out, I for one would sure like to know what it does.

Thanks again,

D1

[dragon]

I see the coging as a good and bad thing... bad because it requires a bit of torque to move to the next segment, good because it tells us we have a very good magnetic circuit in play.

Coging isn't necessarily caused just between poles although does factor in, it's the act of breaking the connection it has to the pole it's on. Moving between the poles is an added force because the pole piece is magnetized identical to the one it's over which is opposing the pair on each side. Without a completed magnetic circuit the movement between poles is much smaller as the pole piece is demagnetized then re-magnetized in the opposite direction. Generally to reduce this force you would skew either the magnets or lamination's to reduce the pole to pole transition. That force is reasonably easy to deal with. Breaking connection to a closed magnetic circuit is another problem all together.

[Ufopolitics]

UFO, one quick observation ... if the poles are set as you've laid them out in the car alternator drawing it is no different than the having the central field in place. You still have a rotating magnetic field caused by the end magnets (or field coil ) and it will function as a normal alternator. At first look it was brilliant but for some reason it bothered me then I realized why...

Hello Dragon,


I believe there is a slight detail you have not seen...or just missed.

In my design, the Magnets or Stators do NOT Move. That is why I have set Bolts attached to each stators, coming from the frt. and rear casings.

In any car alternator the Coil inside the core does move/rotate, along with the jaws core, as a whole structure, you know that, reason why there are slip rings/brushes.

The point here (basically on this original design) is NOT to move the Magnetic Source, but just the Iron(s) carrying/transferring the magnetic polarity to the generating fields.

So, magnetic field SOURCE is NOT rotating. What rotates is just the transferred flux from plate to plate, BUT, since it is the same polarity...there would be absolutely no change in flux density, direction, etc.

Think of it this way...We are putting a "CLUTCH", an air transferred cushion that absorbs/flexes between both reacting forces, and NOT Directly from Magnetic Source to Reacting Magnetic Source structures, like we have so far. So "clutch" will just "slip" or "give a bit" whenever a reversed force is applied...but it would not affect the rotation.

Hope you see it now.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[jimboot]

Hello Jim,

Good test!, no drag when you connect bulb...and if you had a Power Supply showing Amps and Volts...it would not show increase either (I believe)

Now, what I see that you are doing different on this arrangement...is that you are taking the pick up coils iron cores all the way inside the spinning plane...and you do not need to do that...just by being 'near' the rotating plane, but PERPENDICULAR to it, not inside...you will still pick up energy, and not 'add up' to cogging in 'face to face' iron-magnets.

However, the excellent demonstration on your video...is that just by setting this Pick Up Coils iron cores RIGHT NEXT to the Magnets (and not facing them, not Spinning)...but JUST facing the spinning Iron Cores...you get power to light an Incandescent Bulb without any noticeable change on rotation speed.

I would post (later on) some graphics related to a simple way to build a Model, based on this principle.


Regards



Ufopolitics

Thanks @ufo. T-1000 suggested the field was perpendicular because i had opposing one another which makes sense to me.

[dragon]

UFO... with all due respect, I mean that with great admiration of your work and knowledge - I saw it the same as your explaining it in the beginning but... I realized the claw poles become the magnets when they are exposed to the magnetic field's. Whether the field is produced inside, outside or being transferred from a stationary source to the claw core externally they are still acting as individual magnets at the stator.

[jimboot]

UFO... with all due respect, I mean that with great admiration of your work and knowledge - I saw it the same as your explaining it in the beginning but... I realized the claw poles become the magnets when they are exposed to the magnetic field's. Whether the field is produced inside, outside or being transferred from a stationary source to the claw core externally they are still acting as individual magnets at the stator.

Hi Dragon,
Yes they take on the properties of the mag field the same way they would take on heat as they passed through a fire but they are not the fire. Just my observations

[jtanguay]

The clawtooth design is very inefficient for what we are proposing.

I would love to see the actual magnetic field lines, as they must be fighting fiercely for dominance

The car alternator probably runs at some interesting frequencies, but the best reason for the clawtooth design is the purpose of the alternations and the speed of the diodes. The increased alternations make for a higher than normal frequency but also a consistent output. It does this at the cost of overall efficiency. But considering the size, the possible output and efficiency is massive in comparison to a similar sized generator.

It might be necessary to invest in one of those re-wired stators which are meant for wind power or hydro power generation.