Topic: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[Ufopolitics]

About New Generator...

Wow very true UFO politics , Sory i can not much time to go to the forums , busy with the next generator , I 've had success with mygenerator next , I 'm buying a camera for making video more clearly, before I released the next video , you can follow ufo politics , it is very true what drew , I have to get how the magnetic flux runs without any effect of lenz law , it turns out lenz law provides positive efec , maybe tomorrow I will be releasing a video how the magnetic flux occurs in stator.
Another result I get 220v 55A in my next generator with a frequency of 120Hz at 1500rpm rotation with 750W input + 320W for Center Coil , it is not as expected , then I will play it with the speed of 750rpm to 50Hz , then make more windings in Stator , but may only produce a 30A 220V .
Thnk 's .

Thanks Sprocket, for posting Syairchairun comment here.

Now, related to:

I have to get how the magnetic flux runs without any effect of lenz law , it turns out lenz law provides positive efec , maybe tomorrow I will be releasing a video how the magnetic flux occurs in stator.

I believe Lenz is present here as well, since this is still a Symmetrical Induction, a "Mirror Type" Induction , except that the Iron Elements are the ones rotating and NOT DIRECTLY the Source which are the Inner Exciters. On Typical Two Parts Generators the Exciter rotates, so Lenz acts against rotation. Here, by the time Lenz manifests between both Inner-Outer Coils...the Iron is REDIRECTING the Flux "ahead" of "Lenz Time" AS LONG AS a constant rotation is provided.

I don't know if any of You have noticed...but at certain times He is rotating Generator by hand...there comes points where it does get VERY stiff, and much force must be applied to "unlock" rotation. I believe this is due to stopping/not constant steady rotation of the Iron Cores, produces that the delayed Lenz "rushes outwards" and Locks Iron Rotor.

Look at it this way...The rotating Iron Cores (Rotor) are just an "Extension" of the Stators/Exciters Poles, plus they have the ability to "switch" magnetic polarity before getting a perfect alignment with stators poles, which, by the way, I believe are N-S-N-S...The Magnetic Polarity TRANSITION occurs in a "smooth" way at the "in-between" stator poles, that is when Lenz manifests fully IF steady rotation is present, then it throws a positive/favor/assist to rotation to next approaching pole...and so on.

This "Smooth Transition" will NEVER take place when we are rotating Stators/Exciters with a very close Air Gap DIRECTLY to the Generating Fields Cores, like it occurs in all Two Part Generators.

IMO, the Stator should be wound with just a bit heavier gauge and/or more turns (if possible) than OEM Stators, this will increase the magnetic field strength more than OEM, since some percentage would be lost in the REDIRECTION from the Iron Cores to the Generating Fields Cores...not much though, this is the point to reach a perfect balance, and nothing but real building and testing could find out exactly the suitable wiring spec's.

Another suggestion/possibility would be to turn/wind Stators with parallel bifilar or multi-filar of the same or smaller gauge as OEM, as this will strengthen the magnetic field as well, causing a more robust Induction.


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

[Dog-One]

Deep Dive

This "Smooth Transition" will NEVER take place when we are rotating Stators/Exciters with a very close Air Gap DIRECTLY to the Generating Fields Cores, like it occurs in all Two Part Generators.

Thank you for all the nice CAD work and explanations on this device.


I've been thinking about this machine quite a bit and the geometry has me wondering...

First off, the gap. Seems to me you would want a fairly narrow gap between the interrupter and the output coils, with a much larger gap between the interrupter and the center magnets/coils. The idea here being the purpose of the interrupter is to focus the flux without overly being stuck to it. Think of the interrupter as being more like a lens than a pipe.

The other aspect is the round geometry as compared to the flat geometry in the US5191258 patent. Something about cutting the flux in an orbital motion instead of a straight linear motion appeals to me, based on spin and the vortex pattern of a magnetic field.

Syairchairun's device must be optimizing several various characteristics of magnetic inertia in order to function as claimed. Probably we should take a deep dive into what those characteristics are. There might be something we could do even better once we understand what it is he is already doing well.

[Ufopolitics]

Thank you for all the nice CAD work and explanations on this device.


I've been thinking about this machine quite a bit and the geometry has me wondering...

First off, the gap. Seems to me you would want a fairly narrow gap between the interrupter and the output coils, with a much larger gap between the interrupter and the center magnets/coils. The idea here being the purpose of the interrupter is to focus the flux without overly being stuck to it. Think of the interrupter as being more like a lens than a pipe.

The other aspect is the round geometry as compared to the flat geometry in the US5191258 patent. Something about cutting the flux in an orbital motion instead of a straight linear motion appeals to me, based on spin and the vortex pattern of a magnetic field.

Syairchairun's device must be optimizing several various characteristics of magnetic inertia in order to function as claimed. Probably we should take a deep dive into what those characteristics are. There might be something we could do even better once we understand what it is he is already doing well.

You are welcome Dog One,

First off, I wouldn't call "Interrupter" to the Iron Rotor Cage Members...Iron does not interrupts magnetic flow, but transfer it or "Inherit it"...it acts as a Buffer between Inductor/Exciter to Induced Iron Core. Forget about the windings...just think about magnetic fields and bare iron lamination cores interactions.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

If I would say that Induction does not work exactly as we all have been told for so long, since Faraday...you may think I am insane...right?

Induction works from inside the very center of cores to the outer coils, an inside out process in the Generating Fields.

As well as there are absolutely NOT STRAIGHT LINES OF FORCE from ANY Magnetic Field on Earth...therefore, there are NOT PERPENDICULAR TO... VERTICAL Conductors the ONLY ones that receive direct induction...It all depends on the sense of Rotation of Exciters and their Geometry relative to the Magnetic Fields Vortexes...

By utilizing this Iron Rotating Members, redirecting the Static Exciting Fields and projecting them INTO/INSIDE the Generating Field CORES...A completely different Spectrum of Rotary Exciting Fields takes place then...rather than spinning the Exciter Cores and Windings at same time...

There are absolutely NO ABRUPT/RADICAL CHANGES dropping from North to South within the Generating Fields Cores...but smooth transitions.

And this Smooth Transitions somehow break the Symmetry...by distorting the B Fields Vectors from Exciter:

[IMG][/IMG]

Just Focus on the TRANSITION Time (when Iron is NOT Aligned with Stators/Inductors/Exciters), NOT when Iron is Aligned with Exciter Cores...that is then Typical Symmetry......and here is when B-Fields are Facing each others when stiffness (Lenz Law) could lock or tend to lock rotor...NOT when they are Miss-aligned.

This very "slight" twist of the B-Fields Vectors grants the great results He is observing. Then We realize this deviation or distortion of Vectors will never take place when we are rotating Exciter together with Iron Core in a typical Two Part Generator Head...as they will always keep facing each others in a perfect Symmetry...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Cadman]

You are welcome Dog One,

First off, I wouldn't call "Interrupter" to the Iron Rotor Cage Members...Iron does not interrupts magnetic flow, but transfer it or "Inherit it"...it acts as a Buffer between Inductor/Exciter to Induced Iron Core. Forget about the windings...just think about magnetic fields and bare iron lamination cores interactions.

Most people seem to be overlooking the magnetic circuit for the way this generator works. You are correct the iron core is a director, not an interrupter. The magnetic circuit path is just like electrical current in that it will always flow through the least resistance in the iron. It travels from one exciter pole through the rotating iron core through the stator iron and back through the closest opposite exciter pole (or the one with the least resistance) then back around to the first exciter.

Normally a 4 pole generator has 4 magnetic circuits constantly flowing around the stator and through the exciters. Syairchairun said “.. Another result I get 220v 55A in my next generator with a frequency of 120Hz at 1500rpm rotation with 750W input + 320W for Center Coil , it is not as expected ..” This convinces me he is being honest because the rotor iron in his design will flip back and forth between 4 poles and 8 poles as it rotates around the 4 exciters, and this would double the output frequency. He did not expect this to happen, his reported output is very close to the original generator specs.... except for the frequency.

If you are wondering where I see 8 poles, just set one of the iron rotor shoes half way between two exciter poles. The rotor overlaps the the two exciters a significant amount so the left half of the iron will have one pole and the right half will have the opposite pole. At this point in the rotation all 4 rotors will be presenting 2 poles to the stator.

There are some complicated magnetic changes occurring during the rotation.

Regards

[jtanguay]

The shape of the iron plays a big part in how it becomes 'stuck' from the magnetic flux.

Pointed edges will help lower the 'stickiness'. (notice in the CAD drawings)

I've been thinking about modifying a car alternator to get the same effect. Only problem is the RPM's required. The pulley on your typical car alternator will spin at around 3x engine rpm, so around 2200 rpm+ at idle alone, but with the right setup, it shouldn't pose too much difficulty. If the generator takes as little to spin as is shown, then maybe using a bedini style pulsed motor setup will easily provide the rpm required to produce some amperage.

[Cadman]

The thickness of the iron is important too. When the rotor is at the halfway point between the exciter poles it is short circuiting a large portion of the flux before it gets to the stator.

Edit: This means the type of soft iron could be significant. Whether it is non-oriented or oriented, and the direction of the grain orientation.

[jtanguay]

curvedironrotor.jpg

I know it's a crude drawing, but it shows a possible method of reducing the 'cogging' effect by reducing the amount of flux going in and out of the iron core during rotation.

I'm curious as to whether this generator requires large gaps between the four poles, or if it will run fine without. This would mean that to modify an off the shelf generator/alternator might be a lot simpler.

[tachyoncatcher]

NS or NN

Gentlemen,
I don;t mean to beat a dead horse, but the builder, @syairchairun replied to one of his Indonesian friends regarding the magnet construction with the following quote;
"...in middle has 10*12*80 mm neody magnt, any 40 streets magnet NSNSNSNS....., so 1 Streets any 4mgnet wth the same pole, and 2 Magnet for amplydyne (I dn't know it amplydyne, but the inventor say that when u chnge generator to dc welding only function when use diode for dc current), when I remove 2mgnet tht no efect, in my AC gnrator."

For me, the question becomes, with the 40 small neos connected NSNS to make the larger generator magnet, does that mean the NS orientation of the magnet is radial like a normal generator? Or is it axial and the builder is not aware he created such a beast. Of course a electromagnet in the orientation he showed in his second video would be radial. But, I wonder how it will perform compared to the first build.
Oh, and he did mention that all his stator coils were connected in parallel in his first build. The plot thickens.

Randy

[Turion]

Take a look at this washing machine motor core. I can pick up these old washing machine motors two for $5.00 at a local appliance repair place. The core is about 1 1/2 inches thick. The motor itself has a wound rotor and a wound stator, and is in two pieces that are not bolted together, but epoxied. They are a pain to get apart without a little Dremmel cutting wheel

[lostbraincell]

Just Me

I have done many experiments with this concept ( not this were talking about ) many variations using iron and numetal. The best i could do is 89%.
Looking at this machine if the magnets were not stationary but free spinning.
They would chase the iron around and slip at BMF resistance.
Help understanding this will help when i try to make one. thanks

[Ufopolitics]

Variations on the Iron Cores...

Hello to All,

I would do some "Twisting" on the Iron Cores lamination, in order that there will never be a point where they align fully with both cores (Inner Stator/Exciters and Generating Field Core). This is not new, and below is a picture of my Mecc Alte 6K Stator...it has a slight twist just to achieve same purpose, except Stator windings and Iron Core are rotating.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

@Cadman: Thanks for agreeing with me on the transfer or redirection, however, I do not think that Flux manifest 'exactly' as current flow...since it travels through air...plus we can compress it or expand it...and many more things that can never be done with electrical flow.

Plus You 'see' Eight stators when they are in the "in-between zone"...I do not see eight but just four at all times...the thing is when you put a block of steel/iron in front of a magnet, iron becomes automatically 'part of that magnet' in whatever polarity is facing it, will become like another magnet attached/attracted by the field. If it is in between Two Magnets like this case, Iron would become like a magnetic path that would bridge the flow, so if Stators are N-S and Iron is in between the N-S, then Iron would become S/N...If Iron is between S-N Stators then Iron would be N/S. And we must be referring to EXACTLY 50/50 between both Stators, because once it keeps moving >>> and approaching one Stator more than the other, say a 40/60% then the prevailing domain would be that 60% Pole, and I am referring to INNER Polarity only, Exterior projection towards outer generating fields results same exact as Stators facing polarity. Meaning that all Iron does is to TRANSFER whatever polarity it gets closer towards its outer face, and the in between position is just the same effect as when a Four Pole rotary stator have the two adjacent poles hitting one generating field core/winding.

Obviously, this constant reversal of flow taking place at iron cores, which is opposite to the 'real' polarity occurring at the Stators Poles...somehow produces an 'attenuation' of the Lenz effect counter forces.

Related to Radial or Axial...I just see Radial flow here

I do agree that this structure does generates very complex magnetic changes...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Cadman]

Ufopolitics,

I meant that the magnetic 'flow' is exactly like current in that it will always use the path of least resistance, and will divide proportionally between two or more paths of resistance, nothing more than that.

See the attached picture. I still see 8 poles (not stators) at the exact midpoint, but you see pretty much the same things I see going on, the magnetic circuit is in a very fluid state. The nearly short circuiting of the magnetic circuit at that midpoint instant may be the real cause for the doubled frequency. At this point who really knows?

In any case I have a feeling there will be a secondary low amplitude output caused by this. Sort of a superimposed AC ripple in between the large sine wave output.
.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Scope shot of test unit output

High All

I quickly put together a small setup just to see some of what is claimed "not self run, I did not expect that with my setup", just to see the cogging and to scope the output, also to see what drag there is when shorting the output.

To start with there is heavy cogging, when shorting there is next to no drag and once turning with a little speed the cogging seems to reduce a lot, current draw drops to half.

I'm not a motor man but look at the output wave form, the frequency is 160hz and a duty swing of around 60/40 which maybe due to unbalanced coils!!

This is a converted computor fan, so was not expecting much output.

rewgards

Mike

[Joit]

Gentlemen,
I don;t mean to beat a dead horse, but the builder, @syairchairun replied to one of his Indonesian friends regarding the magnet construction with the following quote;
"...in middle has 10*12*80 mm neody magnt, any 40 streets magnet NSNSNSNS....., so 1 Streets any 4mgnet wth the same pole, and 2 Magnet for amplydyne (I dn't know it amplydyne, but the inventor say that when u chnge generator to dc welding only function when use diode for dc current), when I remove 2mgnet tht no efect, in my AC gnrator."

For me, the question becomes, with the 40 small neos connected NSNS to make the larger generator magnet, does that mean the NS orientation of the magnet is radial like a normal generator? Or is it axial and the builder is not aware he created such a beast. Of course a electromagnet in the orientation he showed in his second video would be radial. But, I wonder how it will perform compared to the first build.
Oh, and he did mention that all his stator coils were connected in parallel in his first build. The plot thickens.

Randy

You should can roughly calculate this, because the Polarity has to switch.
Somewhere was mentioned that he used 1200rpm, output was about 220V/120hz?
So it would be about 10 poles what he switch, if i am not wrong.

But i have anyhow my doubts on this thing. You dont create so easy 220V by turning a wheel a bit around.
Ever seens how fast a generator runs that it gives out 220V, i want a better explanation for that as a redirected Fluxpath.

[jtanguay]

You should can roughly calculate this, because the Polarity has to switch.
Somewhere was mentioned that he used 1200rpm, output was about 220V/120hz?
So it would be about 10 poles what he switch, if i am not wrong.

But i have anyhow my doubts on this thing. You dont create so easy 220V by turning a wheel a bit around.
Ever seens how fast a generator runs that it gives out 220V, i want a better explanation for that as a redirected Fluxpath.

Joit, check the gen specs here: St /stc Series Single/three Phase A.c Synchronous Generator - Buy Generator,St Generator,St Single-phase Generator Product on Alibaba.com

The way the iron works, it might be providing an extra 'pulse' if you will to help lower the rpm required.