Topic: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[wantomake]

yes

Shylo,
From what I've seen yes. Or the coil would short itself.

wantomake

[Dog-One]

Iron wire

A couple of ways to go here.

You could find sleeving material or dip the wire in shellac or similar. The later way is going to be messy as you need it to dry before you can spool it up for use.

At one time I found a huge roll of iron wire for farm fencing. Later on I was able to locate some sleeving material:
http://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.as...glass-sleeving

If you haven't experimented with iron wound coils before, it is worth investigating. Just like John mentioned in the video, everything seems to work backwards.

I actually had an idea to wind two pancake coils, one with iron and the other with copper, then set the copper one on top of the iron coil and try to make some sort of pulse motor. My thought was that the iron coil would attract the magnet without being energized, so I could collect the electricity in a capacitor from the iron coil on approach and when the magnet just crossed center, dump the electricity into the copper coil to push the magnet away. Have no idea if it would work, but if someone wants to take a stab at it, I'd sure like to know what it does.

[MorningStar]

US Patent No. 6,246,561 Methods for Controlling the Path of Magnetic Flux from a Permanent Magnet and Devices Incorporating the Same by Charles J. Flynn Figures No. 23 through 29 illustrates a variation of the device in question here. Additional variations are shown in the patent.

[Cadman]

This is what I am building. Syair gave the design to us.

It's been known for almost 200 years that if you take a bar of iron and put two magnets with like poles at each end, the fluxes will combine and produce a more powerful opposite pole in the middle of the iron bar.

An electromagnet will produce a magnified flux in the center line of the poles while little flux will be present on the exterior of the electromagnet.

Winding the coils to present opposite poles towards each other when induced, and redirecting the electromagnetic flux parallel to the iron rotor will give an attraction and a repulsion to the rotor at the appropriate times.

Regards

[d3x0r]

This is what I am building. Syair gave the design to us.

It's been known for almost 200 years that if you take a bar of iron and put two magnets with like poles at each end, the fluxes will combine into a more powerful opposite pole in the middle of the iron bar.

An electromagnet will produce a magnified flux in the center line of the poles while little flux will be present on the exterior of the electromagnet.

Winding the coils to present opposite poles towards each other when induced, and redirecting the electromagnetic flux parallel to the iron rotor will give an attraction and a repulsion to the rotor at the appropriate times.

Regards

what about the inner coils and their polarities?

[Dog-One]

This is what I am building. Syair gave the design to us.

I like it a lot Cadman, but at the moment with only two snapshots, all I see is the pole flipping of the iron bars. I can't see the flux changing in the outside stator core.

If you would, can you maybe show three or four snapshots with some more annotation showing direction of rotation for the iron bars and how the flux is changing?

Also, do you think your design is limited to four poles? Could six or eight work equally well or better?

Attached are some templates I drew up to scratch on with pencil. Hopefully they are useful.

[Cadman]

Dog-one,

I'll try to be more specific. I've broken it down into 4 basic steps. The rotor is the only thing that rotates and you have to imagine the gradual changes taking place between each step. The red dashed lines are not an accurate representation of the flux, they show the basic direction only.

The coils are induced by the rotor as it passes clockwise between the stator coils and the armature magnet poles much like an ordinary generator but the induction takes place mostly on the long inner side of the stator coils. See the section A-A image.

Step 1 is where maximum induction will occur, this is a cogging point, and all the induced interpoles will be at full strength.

Step 2 is just after max induction, the interpoles are attracting the rotor irons, induction is starting to decline.

Step 3 is another cogging point where the stator flux collapses and induction ceases. The collapse will prevent saturation of the stator iron.

Step 4 is where the flux begins to build again. As the flux builds the rotor irons will be repelled from the interpoles and they will also begin to be attracted to the next pole in the rotation.

This all repeats 4 times per revolution.

This design needs to be refined. I think the interpole area should be shaped more like Syair's cad drawing for one thing. There are other design details to work out but I think this represents the concept fairly well and I can't see any fault with the process at this time.

I hope this makes everything clear.

This should work with more coils and armature poles as long as they are an even number and as long as there is enough space for the induced interpoles. Getting the coils too close together or too far apart would interfere with the interpoles.

[Turion]

Steel Wire

enamel coated steel wire by the spool
Enameled Florist Wire - Greenden Florist Wire Factory

[d3x0r]

Dog-one,

I'll try to be more specific. I've broken it down into 4 basic steps. The rotor is the only thing that rotates and you have to imagine the gradual changes taking place between each step. The red dashed lines are not an accurate representation of the flux, they show the basic direction only.

The coils are induced by the rotor as it passes clockwise between the stator coils and the armature magnet poles much like an ordinary generator but the induction takes place mostly on the long inner side of the stator coils. See the section A-A image.

Step 1 is where maximum induction will occur, this is a cogging point, and all the induced interpoles will be at full strength.

Step 2 is just after max induction, the interpoles are attracting the rotor irons, induction is starting to decline.

Step 3 is another cogging point where the stator flux collapses and induction ceases. The collapse will prevent saturation of the stator iron.

Step 4 is where the flux begins to build again. As the flux builds the rotor irons will be repelled from the interpoles and they will also begin to be attracted to the next pole in the rotation.

This all repeats 4 times per revolution.

This design needs to be refined. I think the interpole area should be shaped more like Syair's cad drawing for one thing. There are other design details to work out but I think this represents the concept fairly well and I can't see any fault with the process at this time.

I hope this makes everything clear.

This should work with more coils and armature poles as long as they are an even number and as long as there is enough space for the induced interpoles. Getting the coils too close together or too far apart would interfere with the interpoles.

Again; what about the inner coils?

http://youtu.be/SqWU12Db_MY?t=16m31s
inner-coils-Untitled.jpg

[Dog-One]

I hope this makes everything clear.

This should work with more coils and armature poles as long as they are an even number and as long as there is enough space for the induced interpoles. Getting the coils too close together or too far apart would interfere with the interpoles.

Real good Cadman, I can see this working now.


Are you planning on cutting sheets of silicon steel for this?

I've been hunting everywhere and just haven't found a company yet that will sell me sheets stacked on a pallet. I have two local outfits that can do water jet cutting, but so far the only thing I can get my hands on for material is small scrap or huge rolls. I can't say I like the idea of buying a big line transformer and trying to cut it up either.

[marxist]

Again; what about the inner coils?

Hi d3x0r,

I think cadman depicted the 4 inner coils (primary inductors) in his drawing.
Their pole-pieces point away from the center and are depicted blue. These 4 end pieces of the coils cores are energized by the 4 inner coils depicted in black.

Hi cadman,
I hope my understanding is correct.
Are you planing to energize the primary coils (inner coils) with DC and keep them ON all the time? Or will you try with permanant magnets first?

[jimboot]

This fantasticc work Cadman, thank you. Would be nice if we had more time we coul pool our resources and enter. The PMBO with a team entry! I'm in the middle of a rebuild at the moment but I have greatly reduced cogging possibly sacrificing some output I have noticed some interesting things though. You must have that middle distance between your steels for the inter poles to form. So that is a great illustration of it. Otherwise your out put is drastically reduced. Also so the more steel you can load your coils with the better. I manged to double the output of one coil today simply by loading more steels behind it. Not the front though that will reduce the induction. Great work. I lack a lathe and 3d printer to fast track this but these drawings really help.

[jimboot]

Btw here the latest vid http://youtu.be/y3kbDQuoERA

[Cadman]

d3x0r,
Sorry, I didn't intend to ignore your question. I plead exhaustion and being in too big a hurry... marxist has it right, the armature has poles of alternate polarity and they could either be DC coils, on all the time, or permanent magnets.

Marxist,
I think the first build will be a small scale version with N52 neos. I have 10 of them, 1/2” cubes, and I intend to get 6 more so there can be four poles with 4 neos each. These already have a hole in line with the pole axis so the armature can be assembled with machine screws and loctite. I also have one of those 12V DC goldmine motors to drive it with. I should be able to get some reference measurements to compare losses in different configurations with this small setup.

Dog-One,
Steel is a pain in the rear isn't it? We buy over 40 tons of steel every week at work and I still can't get a small quantity of electrical steel. Minimum order quantity only but I haven't given up yet. In the mean time I guess steel shot will have to do. I don't want to use transformer steel because I think we need non-oriented steel for this to work.

Jimboot,
Yeah, a team PMBO would be a lot of fun if we had time.
You already have verification of the interpoles and their effect? That's great news! It sounds like we might be on the right track. Good to know about the steel on the outside perimeter of the coils too. I have been wondering if that would affect the output. A transformer action perhaps?
Looking forward to your next video. Ah, you just posted it. Crud, looks like I need to update flash-player.

[jimboot]

d3x0r,

Jimboot,
Yeah, a team PMBO would be a lot of fun if we had time.
You already have verification of the interpoles and their effect? That's great news! It sounds like we might be on the right track. Good to know about the steel on the outside perimeter of the coils too. I have been wondering if that would affect the output. A transformer action perhaps?
Looking forward to your next video. Ah, you just posted it. Crud, looks like I need to update flash-player.

Yeah I knew I had better performance with better gaps in the rotor and your illustration makes sense of it