Topic: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[gotoluc]

Those coils were made up for an electromagnet project some time back and I simply converted them for this one.

I have used the 12ohm coils in other projects also the 10k, 5k they produce some interesting results. They might work well for a small test project.

It seems to me I remember watching one of your videos testing the effects of the QEG ( motor in a box? )... seems like that would work well for a similar test base for this. You'd have to isolate the director plates, magnetically, and add some magnets...

Thanks for the details.

I've been away from my home and won't be back for some months, so I don't have access to my motor and MOTs in a box. That could of been a way to test.
I would have to start from scratch if I built something.
At this time I'm trying to better understand the effect by seeing the results and the way each build their test device.

Looking forward in seeing more results, so please keep sharing.

Regards

Luc

[dragon]

Personally I don't see this as a delayed, isolated or blocked Lenz effect... this is Lenz force at its peak. It's simply being re directed.

The rotating iron is simply directing the flux and completing a magnetic circuit. As this circuit is completed all the forces of change are placed on the 2 non movable structures ( magnets and stator ). It's still there in full force but the input isn't the force fighting it.

From what I've seen so far this is a done deal for me. It's down to dealing with all the other challenges related to achieving the maximum flux transfer and coging issues.

[gotoluc]

Personally I don't see this as a delayed, isolated or blocked Lenz effect... this is Lenz force at its peak. It's simply being re directed.

The rotating iron is simply directing the flux and completing a magnetic circuit. As this circuit is completed all the forces of change are placed on the 2 non movable structures ( magnets and stator ). It's still there in full force but the input isn't the force fighting it.

From what I've seen so far this is a done deal for me. It's down to dealing with all the other challenges related to achieving the maximum flux transfer and coging issues.

Well Dragon, that is amazing news

Looking forward in a video demo of your newest test device and results.

BTW would any of these configuration work any better to maximize flux transfer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8DzUqDisi0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySId1F9YKvM

Regards

Luc

[dragon]

The first one would work fine but incredibly difficult to build because of the geometry and forces involved...the axial design using iron cores and magnets puts a lot of strain on centrally mounted bearings. It could be done but a radial assembly might be a better choice.

The second appears to be a conventional generator ...

[jimboot]

Personally I don't see this as a delayed, isolated or blocked Lenz effect... this is Lenz force at its peak. It's simply being re directed.

The rotating iron is simply directing the flux and completing a magnetic circuit. As this circuit is completed all the forces of change are placed on the 2 non movable structures ( magnets and stator ). It's still there in full force but the input isn't the force fighting it.

From what I've seen so far this is a done deal for me. It's down to dealing with all the other challenges related to achieving the maximum flux transfer and coging issues.

I would pretty much agree with this. I think it's there but just not causing drag.

[jimboot]

Well Dragon, that is amazing news

Looking forward in a video demo of your newest test device and results.

BTW would any of these configuration work any better to maximize flux transfer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8DzUqDisi0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySId1F9YKvM

Regards

Luc

I actually really like that first one. Playing around with my current motor I want to place the coils where they are in that animation. It's a big investment in time though for an unknown benefit. I'm trying to triage activities. I think I can get more benefit in the short term with better coils and core material.

[gotoluc]

Here is another video I stumbled upon and was wondering if this would qualify as a Lenz work around design?

I chopped the original video to get to the final design.

TubeChop - Part 2 The evolution process to the source of Murray's ultra efficiency (02:05)

Please let me know what you all think

Luc

[Dog-One]

Personally I don't see this as a delayed, isolated or blocked Lenz effect... this is Lenz force at its peak. It's simply being re directed.

The rotating iron is simply directing the flux and completing a magnetic circuit. As this circuit is completed all the forces of change are placed on the 2 non movable structures ( magnets and stator ). It's still there in full force but the input isn't the force fighting it.

From what I've seen so far this is a done deal for me. It's down to dealing with all the other challenges related to achieving the maximum flux transfer and coging issues.

dragon, on the fixed inner core where the magnets are located, you have these mounted to a shaft correct?

If so, are you able to loosen the lock nut for this shaft and detect a torque on it?

What you said above is exactly what I suspected--the Lorentz force is happening between the outer fixed core and the inner fixed core, hence no detectible load is being transferred to the rotating directors. My question above is to get verifiable proof of this theory. If the shaft mounted inner core presents a torque under electrical load, then yes, this is a done deal. We know exactly where the force is being redirected and why this generator design works as we suspected.

If you get a chance to try this simple test, please report your findings. If it does what I think it will do, that will seal-the-deal.

[jimboot]

Hi guys. Quick question. Is amps gauss in this config?. Ie. the denser, higher freq field is what will increase amps. Which is what our cores are so important. For my rig I was thinking using ring mags so I get more poles flipping. Any thoughts?

[dragon]

Luc - that one looks interesting, I'd have to study it a bit to fully understand the dynamics. For now, I plan to stay focused on the current project.

Dogone - yes their mounted on a fixed central shaft. It would be difficult to set up a scale of sorts to measure pressure against this shaft - maybe a sensor behind the magnets to measure force. I originally set up the 3rd build so it could be driven with a drill motor leaving the stator free to rotate and a spring scale to hold it in place. I monitored open circuit forces against the stator ( coging, magnetic drag, bearings - all involved ). Then added loads to the output - there was no noticeable change in tension on the scale loaded even short circuit into an amp meter. I plan to set up the pincore on a floating mount as well. This process gives me all the data I need to find the input required to drive the input while reading the output directly.

Jimboot - there are a number of variables that determines the output of a generator. Magnet size(area), magnet strength(tesla), number of turns, rpm, poles etc.... in a conventional generator the amount of turns determine the voltage at a given rpm - the wire size determines the amperage - larger wire (lower resistance) higher amps. Still, all the variables will determine the outcome - Changing any of the variables alters the outcome.

If some of the variables are unknown you can take a 10 turn coil, for example, and drive it to the desired rpm. Measure the voltage from the coil and divide that by the amount of turns. This will give you voltage per turn then it's simply a matter of calculating the amount of turns needed for a desired voltage. To achieve the highest amperage from that coil you want to use as large a wire as would be allowed in the geometry of your coil using the determined number of turns. Unfortunately, geometry wins and amperage suffers... hope that was helpful....

[jimboot]

[QUOTE=dragon;268575

Jimboot - there are a number of variables that determines the output of a generator. Magnet size(area), magnet strength(tesla), number of turns, rpm, poles etc.... in a conventional generator the amount of turns determine the voltage at a given rpm - the wire size determines the amperage - larger wire (lower resistance) higher amps. Still, all the variables will determine the outcome - Changing any of the variables alters the outcome.

If some of the variables are unknown you can take a 10 turn coil, for example, and drive it to the desired rpm. Measure the voltage from the coil and divide that by the amount of turns. This will give you voltage per turn then it's simply a matter of calculating the amount of turns needed for a desired voltage. To achieve the highest amperage from that coil you want to use as large a wire as would be allowed in the geometry of your coil using the determined number of turns. Unfortunately, geometry wins and amperage suffers... hope that was helpful....[/QUOTE]
Thanks mate that is the best explanation I have read so far. Extremely helpful.

[gotoluc]

The below image is a design idea shared by lumen at the OU Forum as simplified version of the Murray's generator video I posted yesterday.

Please share your thoughts

Luc

Posted by lumen:

This arrangement should prevent Lenz in the coil from affecting the rotor if that is possible.
The key factors are:
1: No movement between coil and magnet.
2: The field propagates outward as the rotor approaches the core and propagates into the core as the rotor moves away.
The idea is that Lenz will work to contain the field within the core as the magnet tries to push it outward into the rotor.
With Lenz working against the magnet not against the rotor.
When the rotor is moving away, Lenz will push back against the collapsing field and prevent pulling back on the rotor.
The total pull back on the rotor to the core can only be the same as the pull into the core as the field would be the same magnitude minus some losses from other events.

This is only a concept until proven to work anything like described.

Luc,
The coil is off a solenoid and the bump is where the wires are connected.
It's not a good position but should be ok.
I left the rotor open or "C" shape because the wires need to connect in a simple manner for now.
A closed rotor would be more effective and there are many ways to achieve this concept but I need to test the entire concept to see if this line of thinking goes anywhere.
Also, the polarity of the magnet is with the poles facing into the two core sections. One core N the other core S.
This causes the rotor to flip the field direction through the coil for AC output. 1800RPM for 60HZ

[jtanguay]

One thing to note with generators is that while thicker wire (lower resistance) can produce more amps, it generally takes more motive force to actually produce the high amps, which is why a car alternator has a 3:1 pulley ratio (to be able to charge the battery even at idle).

An idea that would greatly reduce the RPMs required to produce high amperage, would be to run more than one wire in parallel but using a smaller gauge. 3-4 smaller wires with a combined resistance that of the thicker wire should net the same amperage output, but at a lower RPM. This is due to the fact that the pressure is attained much more easily with the smaller gauge wire.

[desa]

UF How about this, it sounds workable,,,

http://youtu.be/iXocT3vIzVw

David.

[jtanguay]

I'm not too sure how much it would take to modify one of those washing machine motors, but it would essentially be the reverse of the one in the video.

See here

I think all that would need to be done is remake the 'rotor' portion by removing the magnets and somehow modifying it to create more of a gap or making a whole new stationary outer ring as well as the actual iron rotor composed of maybe welding rods or if you're lucky enough to have some, soft iron? Or maybe even take laminated core and grind it into the right shape?