Topic: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[gyula]

Dear Grum,

Thanks for cheking all those I mentioned. I think you did everything correctly.

You started with the 0.1 Ohm resistor and you found that at 20V across that resistor the current is 200 mA. Now calculate the resistor from Ohm's law.

R=20V/0.2A = 100 Ohm and not 0.1 Ohm. This caused the problem. To err is human, of course. An Ohm meter should also show 100 Ohm, no?

Greetings,
Gyula

[Grumage]

Dear Grum,

Thanks for cheking all those I mentioned. I think you did everything correctly.

You started with the 0.1 Ohm resistor and you found that at 20V across that resistor the current is 200 mA. Now calculate the resistor from Ohm's law.

R=20V/0.2A = 100 Ohm and not 0.1 Ohm. This caused the problem. To err is human, of course. An Ohm meter should also show 100 Ohm, no?

Greetings,
Gyula

Dear Gyula.

A rather red faced Grum sit's typing an apology !! Yes 101 Ohm to be exact I will have to blame my failing eyesight on this one.

On a brighter note at least my protocol was ok, more tests to come with the right resistor in place. Thanks' again.

Cheers Grum.

[jimboot]

Thanks Grum. Looking forward to the next instalment.

[rosehillworks]

William, My appologies - I was out of line

No offense taken.
It did not seem offensive to me
I took what you said as a reminder to always seek wisdom and contemplate what we learn.

[gotoluc]

Dear Gyula.

I have put together a short video of the test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s95CwLmqB-0

I know you will tell me where I have gone wrong !!

Cheers Grum.

PS. Forgive me if I pronounced your pen name incorrectly !!

Thanks for making this new video Grum

A few pointers. I see your scope can display data. If you can select VRMS instead of VPP it would be better for power calculation. Also, the way most scopes displays data is based on what you see in the window. To get more reliable numbers, you would need more samples (20 or so) will give you a better result. One or 2 samples like you did in your video would not be considered to be enough for a reliable data but is good when we want to look at the shape of the waveform.
Your voltage divisions could of been set one division lower so the waveform doesn't fill the screen as much, again this would be for more accurate data. But again, if you wan to just look at the waveform then it's okay.

Fine details but if you want to present information to .99, TK and MileHigh that they will consider, then these are the pointers they've taught me over the years!... oh, and I just remembered a real important one. Make sure your scope probe setting is on DC coupling and not AC coupling even though you are scoping AC.

I kind of knew you resistor was not correct the first time. I thought you would check it with your meter after I mentioned if it was a 0.1 Ohms it would be so hot you would not be able to handle it like you did. Glad you eventually found the problem.

So it looks like you had up to 5vpp which is about 3.5vrms across 100 Ohms = 0.122 Watts

Thanks for sharing your great research and being open to suggestions

Luc

[Duncan]

Red herring --- sorry

Hi Duncan,

you may not be aware but a high quality replication of the Flynn PP motor was built by Jetijs 5 years ago which demonstrated no OU

Topic: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...replicate.html

Video demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1MVYvlQqnM

Lets not post anything more about this here

Kind regards

Luc

Hi Luc I'm a big fan of Jetjis's work and have written to him on a few occasions .. usually for advice, as you say “ high quality” his craft work is outstanding, however I didn't know he'd fought the good fight with Flynn's PM motor so thanks for the links and Info of course I now regret introducing the link on this thread anyway, as you say ' subject closed' kind regards Duncan

[RAMSET]

Message to Gyula

Gyula
I did send you a quick PM/question
thx
Chet

[Grumage]

Dear All.

Suggestions/Comments welcome!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VTlQdTDLcg

Cheers Grum.

[shylo]

magnet polarities

Hi Grumm, Excellent videos , Are all your magnets the same pole out or do they alternate? I'm sure you mentioned it , but can't remember.
By alternating the magnet poles ,but having the coils all wound the same direction ,and pulling load off of all the north induced coils as a bundle, and pulling off all the south induced coils as a bundle . Should the lenz from the 2 seperate bundles not cancel?
Maybe that does'nt make sense, I'm not very good at getting my point across.
Nice work Thanks for posting.
artv

[gyula]

Dear Grum,

I think that to get the most out of this particular setup, you may wish to adjust and find the best distance between the stator magnets and the rotor plates and the best distance between the rotor plates and the lower ends of the coils (cores). This process may sounds to be a tedious job but the 4 hands of two persons could do it...
I think the stator plate in which the magnets are fixed could be either lowered on the 4 brass bolts (to increase the magnet-plate distance) or lifted upwards (to decrease the magnet-plate distance).
Here I suppose the drive motor to which the plastic rotor disc with the plates are fixed would remain at the same height when the stator plate with magnets are lifted or lowered.
So one person would hold the stator plate and the other person the upper plate with the coils and watch the brightness of the bulb while adjusting the two distances little by little.
Maybe you have already done some attempts to find the optimal distances, I do not know.

The problem is that the output power will surely depend ALSO on the width of the plates and to find it out would need making another rotor plate with different, maybe narrower set of soft iron plates, unfortunately. And when using another set of plates with the different width on the rotor, the distances I referred to above may also be adjusted to get the highest output.

I assume that when you connected all the coils in parallel, you checked the main output with the scope to see the correct phasings for the coils i.e. no any coil reduces the main output when connected.

One question because I could not see on the video: what was the input current when you shorted the output coils with the Ampermeter? It was impossible to see. When the bulb was lit the current was 1.44 Amper, where did it get reduced to? In the first video it got reduced to 0.96 A from 1.01 A or so.

Greetings,
Gyula

[Grumage]

Hi Grumm, Excellent videos , Are all your magnets the same pole out or do they alternate? I'm sure you mentioned it , but can't remember.
By alternating the magnet poles ,but having the coils all wound the same direction ,and pulling load off of all the north induced coils as a bundle, and pulling off all the south induced coils as a bundle . Should the lenz from the 2 seperate bundles not cancel?
Maybe that does'nt make sense, I'm not very good at getting my point across.
Nice work Thanks for posting.
artv

Dear shylo.

The 16 PM's are NS, NS consecutively.

T-1000 posted somewhere a single coil and magnet drawing but it eludes me at present.

Many thanks for your compliments.

Cheers Grum.

[Grumage]

Dear Grum,

I think that to get the most out of this particular setup, you may wish to adjust and find the best distance between the stator magnets and the rotor plates and the best distance between the rotor plates and the lower ends of the coils (cores). This process may sounds to be a tedious job but the 4 hands of two persons could do it...
I think the stator plate in which the magnets are fixed could be either lowered on the 4 brass bolts (to increase the magnet-plate distance) or lifted upwards (to decrease the magnet-plate distance).
Here I suppose the drive motor to which the plastic rotor disc with the plates are fixed would remain at the same height when the stator plate with magnets are lifted or lowered.
So one person would hold the stator plate and the other person the upper plate with the coils and watch the brightness of the bulb while adjusting the two distances little by little.
Maybe you have already done some attempts to find the optimal distances, I do not know.

The problem is that the output power will surely depend ALSO on the width of the plates and to find it out would need making another rotor plate with different, maybe narrower set of soft iron plates, unfortunately. And when using another set of plates with the different width on the rotor, the distances I referred to above may also be adjusted to get the highest output.

I assume that when you connected all the coils in parallel, you checked the main output with the scope to see the correct phasings for the coils i.e. no any coil reduces the main output when connected.

One question because I could not see on the video: what was the input current when you shorted the output coils with the Ampermeter? It was impossible to see. When the bulb was lit the current was 1.44 Amper, where did it get reduced to? In the first video it got reduced to 0.96 A from 1.01 A or so.

Greetings,
Gyula

Dear Gyula.

Many thanks for taking the time to study our motor.

I am able to raise and lower the rotor whilst the device is running as I allowed the drive motors spindle some ample room vertically in the bearing housings. Funnily enough there is little to be gained by having the rotor closer to the PM's, in fact there is a sweet spot where cogging is minimal with no change in output. It is the distance of the Soft Iron coil cores from the rotor plates that makes the most effect, the closer the gap, the better the output!!

The current drops to 1.39 Ampere on short circuit.

What you and the other members may not know is that this is the Mk 1 motor, it has some serious flaws !!

1. Rotor plates made from solid Soft Iron, massive Eddy current loss and overheating, this has seriously warped the plastic rotor.

2. Output coils. Off the shelf solenoid actuators 12 V with 50 Ohm resistance each. No good at all for this idea to work properly.

I have already cut up an old MOV transformer into 5 mm slabs, these slabs will be surface ground and placed into correctly machined sectors of a new Polycarbonate rotor disc. The laminations will be aligned at 90 deg offset to the magnets so as to minimise eddy current loss.

I have today wound a single experimental pancake coil of 100 turns 0.9 mm dia wire. This single coil outputs 0.4 V AC and a short circuit current of 35 mA ( Digital Multimeter reading ). We are getting there !!

Cheers Grum.

[RAMSET]

Mr Caribbean's contributions

for those unaware this is being discussed here also

The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )


Mr Caribbeans effort here.

Just some updates on this spinning ring magnets setup...

Two ring magnets...south facing in...Push Mode one... ;D 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=690tYFZUbjE

Two ring magnets...south & north facing in...Pull Mode one... ;D 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9IWKFDwdrY

One ring magnet & one full iron rotor...Pull Mode also... 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjZU1W93_Xo

These updates/tests takes about 30min to do so what you see here is only a tiny bit of it...otherwise it would be a long boring video...lol... :

In these videos one can clearly see the basic workings of the magnetic field of rings magnets when they are spinning... ;D 8)
Guess i only need a coil now that doesn't slow down the drive side and i'm done...???...lol... :

Good thing is also the fact that the leds are not flikkering in the 3rd video sooo...stable output... ;D... 8)

[jimboot]

Hi Guys,
Just on the cogging issue = more amps.
Not the case in some tests Ive been doing using some very small samarium cobalt mags.
http://youtu.be/b5a6wRRz1R8
Ive had a little bit of feedback on this but I'd appreciate some boffin input.
Based on Grum's last post Ive also been testing another config which has given me another 30% output from a badly wound coil

[machinealive]

Hi guys
I posted this last night, but this am it was gone. I guess it was server maintenance.
I hope people feel it is relevant, on this this thread.
I finished winding my motor and it worked, not the best but it is a start.
So, I built a brushless motor with no permanent magnets, just an itch I had to scratch. The build is very similar to the 90* gen, posted by UFO, the rotor is also similar to Dragons rotor.
The first of the video is the build, last min or two is the motor spinning.

http://youtu.be/o6yZQpX9y5k

Again, just an experiment, will probably switch to pm rotor.

Grumage and jimboot, great testing. Grumage my gen rotor is similar to your, I hope to test mine soon.