Energy Amplification...revealed!

[jettis]

Hi all,

I thought this configuration was special but after some more testing and running the middle section with capacitors and finally just straight hooking the motors between the high voltage and low voltage sources it turns out to just be a series motor configuration with recovery to the small side battery. It is all in the name of learning and trying to learn about this tech. Perhaps I should learn to tone down the names of my threads...though.

If anyone has tried this let me know if you have found the same results as I have.

-Dave Wing

[Ted Ewert]

Ted,

Don't take anybody's word. My grandpa used to tell me "Trust everyone, but always cut the cards."

If you want to know if free energy can really be had, you will never decide by listening to theory and discussion. You HAVE to put something together on the bench. There is NOTHING simpler than this circuit. You can put this together with three "C" batteries and a $5.00 radio shack motor, so for less than $8.00. And you can always use those batteries in a flashlight later. Then all you need is a voltmeter and you will see it for yourself.

I agree, I've always been a builder and will give this a try.
More reading tonight when I get home from work!

[Turion]

Dave,
Haven't tried your setup, so I don't have any data for you there.

BUT, I have run the 3BGS enough times over the last 9 years to know that if you shaft connect three PULSE motors to each other, and adjust them so that only one at a time is on...run 3 separate 3 battery circuits.

When one motor is acting as a motor (but also generating) the other two motors are acting only as (Lenz free, because they are connected between the positives) generators.

This is the setup I REALLY want to try with Matt's new pulse motor design. I have only tried it with stock motors. Anybody who has played with the 3BGS can tell you what happens when you put a load on the battery in that setup. Motor speeds up.

[gotoluc]

Hi all,

I thought this configuration was special but after some more testing and running the middle section with capacitors and finally just straight hooking the motors between the high voltage and low voltage sources it turns out to just be a series motor configuration with recovery to the small side battery. It is all in the name of learning and trying to learn about this tech. Perhaps I should learn to tone down the names of my threads...though.

If anyone has tried this let me know if you have found the same results as I have.

-Dave Wing

Hi Dave, disappointing to hear this now!... was not expecting this from you
What was your original setup that convinced you this worked?
Maybe there is something the caps can't do?

I appreciate your honesty

Luc

[altrez]

On the Tesla Switch DvD John says not to use caps for this configuration becuse it won't work.

-Altrez

[Turion]

In all the years I worked on the 3BGS, I NEVER got it to work with caps. There is just something about batteries!!

[mbrownn]

Hi all,

I thought this configuration was special but after some more testing and running the middle section with capacitors and finally just straight hooking the motors between the high voltage and low voltage sources it turns out to just be a series motor configuration with recovery to the small side battery. It is all in the name of learning and trying to learn about this tech. Perhaps I should learn to tone down the names of my threads...though.

If anyone has tried this let me know if you have found the same results as I have.

-Dave Wing

This configuration, if operated like the three battery generating system, is special and for the same reasons, but it wont work quite how some would expect as you have seen.

The way I see it is to operate it as the three battery system, first discharging the five into four discharged batteries, then the four recharged batteries into three and so on. This way you get to run a 12v motor for 15 times that of a single battery, or 3 times what 5 batteries could be expected to do, assuming none of the other characteristics of the 3 battery generating system show up.

Unfortunately because of standard DC motor efficiencies, our output from the motor shaft is likely to be 50% or less of the input. This means that if we connect a generator to our motor with its efficiency losses we are back to not quite fully charging the original 5 batteries.

There are ways around this problem but you need a special motor/generator setup that has a higher overall efficiency.

If you do get the anomalies of the three battery generating system, then it is very special.

The thing to note about using a 15 battery system is this. Lead acid batteries have around an 80% charge efficiency so 5 battery’s will fully charge 4 batteries with no excess waisted. 4 on to 3 and 3 on to 2 etc there is more available in the primary than what is needed to charge the secondary so the tenancy is for us to waist that extra energy.

Personally I have only operated a 3 battery system and never had the exceptional results of Turion, but that is because of the condition of the secondary required, just as he states in his thread. Great work Turion

The COP of 3 to 1 is there, its the efficiencies that stop us from achieving it. We need an overall electrical efficiency of the motor/generator combination in excess of 75% and then we will start to see an excess. Using high efficiency off the shelf motors and generators we need a COP of 4 to 1, and I believe JB has said they wont take anything less than that seriously. Maybe this is the reason why.

[Ted Ewert]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the mechanism behind this device is basically a drain and pulse system. Drain some current then ring the battery back with a high voltage pulse. The pulses, in this case, would come from the switching in the DC motor.
It would seem one would have to tune the frequency of the motor to some harmonic of the battery. Is this the reason for needing the same type of batteries?
I tried to make a Tesla switch work years ago and gave up in frustration. Recently I've been thinking of building a solid state battery charger based on a video I saw on utube. Same basic theory, but a different configuration and only one battery.

[Matthew Jones]

On the Tesla Switch DvD John says not to use caps for this configuration becuse it won't work.

-Altrez

You don't use caps in cases where you would switch into serial. Serializing full caps is an automatic %50 loss of your power. Unlike a battery 2 caps of a given value (IE, Farad) will double in voltage but capacity is knocked in half.

But don't bet for minute you can't build a capacitor based circuit that acts like a Tesla switch without switching anything into serial.

Matt

[altrez]

You don't use caps in cases where you would switch into serial. Serializing full caps is an automatic %50 loss of your power. Unlike a battery 2 caps of a given value (IE, Farad) will double in voltage but capacity is knocked in half.

But don't bet for minute you can't build a capacitor based circuit that acts like a Tesla switch without switching anything into serial.

Matt

Hi Matt,

Yes you can build a Tesla Switch with caps and John shows one using all caps at the end of the DvD with a COP over 5 its pretty neat.

-Altrez

[jettis]

Dave,
Haven't tried your setup, so I don't have any data for you there.

BUT, I have run the 3BGS enough times over the last 9 years to know that if you shaft connect three PULSE motors to each other, and adjust them so that only one at a time is on...run 3 separate 3 battery circuits.

When one motor is acting as a motor (but also generating) the other two motors are acting only as (Lenz free, because they are connected between the positives) generators.

This is the setup I REALLY want to try with Matt's new pulse motor design. I have only tried it with stock motors. Anybody who has played with the 3BGS can tell you what happens when you put a load on the battery in that setup. Motor speeds up.

Hi Dave,

These are some great concepts. They do remind me of the Bedini SG, Erfinder pointed out the that if you remove the primary battery and replace it with a capacitor it will charge the cap when the circuit is free wheeling and then fire the transistors when voltage is high enough... and that imparts rotation to the flywheel as we all know. Is it possible the SG would be one of the best producers of energy for the lowest cost available? Just thinking out loud here.

Regarding the Cascading Splitting the Positves... Nityesh over on Energy Science Forum suggested, as I think you are suggesting, run them in sequentially and you can run each motor from the 60 volt section down to the 12 volt section on the initial throughput from the first motor. Have not tried this yet but it does in fact seem to be a sound concept.

The concept in the diagram I posted, was running all motors at once this appeared to work, however then I got side tracked using capacitors in place of the interior batteries and finally running the motors directly in series across the negatives of the 60 volt section down to the inverted 12 volt battery. With this in mind I panicked that, that's what was going on in my drawing, the interior batteries were not being used and the circuit was just completeing the path oruond the outside perimeter and were of no benifit to the system. I felt horrible that I had mislead everyone, so I quickly removed all claims I had made.

In the end now I do believe, simply that the current will choose the path of least resistance, which happens to be the battery loops rather than the next motor in line. Unless the inverted battery acts like a high resistance of some type, then of course there would then be a chance of the system acting like a simple series circuit and bypass the interior batteries altogether thus flowing current through all the motors as a series connection.

Hope this makes sense.



-Dave Wing

[jettis]

Ok for those who do not get the concept John Bedini has shared in Splitting the Positive... Here is a short video that proves out the concept.

Note: In the video you see a gain on the inverted 12 volt battery, the voltage is increasing at a fairly good rate this is because the two motors used in the test are not quite identical in their current draws, the one across the negatives is drawing around 100mA more, so this puts a little more current in the charge battery than the other motor can take away. If the motors were identical we should have a slight loss, at least according to conventional theory.

http://youtu.be/Z4s_9MfTo_Q

Here is John Bedini's image taken from his website.

-Dave Wing

[Matthew Jones]

I guess I never tried it, never heard of anyone trying it, cause it seems to simple to work but with the right setup of a High Voltage (HVB) battery in the front you could pass current from the HVB through a motor into a cap, turn the first motor and the second one on into a Low voltage battery (LVB).
Now of course to really take advantage you would have to have 4 motors minimum, 2 on 2 off or 2 off 2 on. Shift the usable power down the line and not just let it free run. Little bit of Math to figure out how much on time to fill the cap to given voltage, more than likely 12 volt lower per pass. Some good switching...



See you weren't wrong Jettis so stop criticizing yourself, you just forgot a component, blond moment...

Matt

[jettis]

I guess I never tried it, never heard of anyone trying it, cause it seems to simple to work but with the right setup of a High Voltage (HVB) battery in the front you could pass current from the HVB through a motor into a cap, turn the first motor and the second one on into a Low voltage battery (LVB).
Now of course to really take advantage you would have to have 4 motors minimum, 2 on 2 off or 2 off 2 on. Shift the usable power down the line and not just let it free run. Little bit of Math to figure out how much on time to fill the cap to given voltage, more than likely 12 volt lower per pass. Some good switching...



See you weren't wrong Jettis so stop criticizing yourself, you just forgot a component, blond moment...

Matt

Hi Matt,

We need to put a capacitor before the 1st motor and put the switch in between the 60 volt side and the capacitor otherwise the motor will only turn until the capacitor is charged by the battery... Which is very short if at all, but with fast switching perhaps the cap may not be needed. Time will tell.

-Dave Wing

[Matthew Jones]

You can put a capacitor there but you don't need one.

Discharging caps takes the same time as charging caps. But the charge cycle is on a curve, you can calculate the difference and the time it will take based on that curve.

So the first thing we need to do is charge the caps to an appropriate voltage.
Lets assume the caps are 100v 250k uf capacitors. (We could use any cap just need faster switching)
Lets assume the motor is 1 ohm of resistance.

First step is to turn on motor 1. To fill a CAP1 to 48 volt. .25 seconds
Next we have to turn on both motor 1 and 2 until CAP2 is at 36 volt, shut off motor2 and make sure Cap1 is at 48. Then we do the same for cap 3 and make sure 1 and 2 are full to there level. Simple start up procedure.

So once its full the time to charge the caps is based on 12 volt. 60v down to 48v. Then 48 down to 36, then 36 down to 24. Or motor 1 and 3 are on then motor 2 and 4 are on. So your looking at around 300 microsecond for time to switch. Thats not real fast. Being you are at or under 12 khz for switching time you would have no problems driving current through them.

I wish I had a calculator to calculate discharge point on the curve but I don't thats my best guess based on this calculator figuring 48v into a 100v 250f cap takes .25 seconds through a 1 ohm load Charging a Capacitor

Its do able for sure. Smaller caps faster switching. Bigger cap slower switching.

Matt