Barbosa and Leal Devices - Info and Replication Details

[ZeroMassInertia]

I’m not very good with electronics’ theory but I would like to open a speculative discussion on the circuit operation. The first thing that grabs my attention is the direct connection of the inverter load output that is driving the primary is also connected to the secondary. Anyone remember Edwin Gray's "Splitting the Positive" Engine. A higher voltage, low amp. and lower voltage higher amp. Then we find a magnetic loop on the other side of the secondary. If we look at the Ground plane system the circuit will send a voltage gradient into the earth.
Has anyone ever used the electrical shockers to collect earth worms?
Just my observations someone with more brains than I will get to the bottom of this circuit.

[clarence]

Hello BroMikey,

concerning the UPS system B&L in their last demonstration that I saw - they were no longer using a charger/battery/inverter set up but had incorporated their unit as a battery UPS type system which is basicaly dedicated circuits with its internal charger/battery/inverter components any way. I could be wrong about the internal make up of a UPS as I am not REALLY familiar with them to be honest about it. I like Don Smiths familiar self motto! KISS----KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. so that is why I like my set up. you can see it- You KNOW what each component is doing or not doing as the case may be. the circuits are REALLY simple and visible.
Also it is easy to tell how you are progressing in achieving you goals, etc.

Also I am mindful of LEVEL's train of thoughts also. as you see in my unit several places I use uncovered terminal strips which serve MY purposes but to a unfamiliar handler would be dangerous. 120 volts whether its from mains or an inverter actually can be deadly. most all other loading places I use covered receptacles to avoid uncovered connections and is a better proceedure for sure.

thanks for listening.

BTW: as far as a smaller version I believe the inverter RMS output would wind up defeating you. you would still have to meet that value from the ground potentiol
in odrer to power mini loads any way - so why small!

Clarence

[BroMikey]

Hello LEVEL,

SPOT ON!!!!

thanks,

Clarence

Quote:
Originally Posted by level View Post
@All, for those familiar with how houses are wired from the power lines, you will know well that you can't power a setup like this from the house mains power, with the phase wire going to one wire on the load and the other wire on the load going to ground. Check Clarence's schematic drawing to see what I am referring to. That will be what is called a ground loop. A ground loop current path will bypass a wattmeter and cause it to read wrong, and can even fool a house mains power meter as well. When you have a ground loop like that, the power is still coming from the mains, even if it doesn't show up on a watt meter at the input of the circuit or on the house mains power meter. Doing such a thing may also bring the power company down on you if they detect what is going on. Stick to the battery and inverter method as the power source, as that is the only way you can avoid a ground loop to the mains electrical power system. The one exception is you might be able to avoid such a problem when powering from the mains if you use an isolation transformer, but isolation transformers can be expensive and have a limited capacity as well.

Caution: Also beware that an inverter with an output of 120 volts or 240 Volts can kill you if you touch live wires, so don't build such a setup if you don't understand such things.
You need to take necessary safety precautions.





Thanks Clarence for addressing this fundamental question that LEVEL spoke about. We all want to know, before we proceed if we are getting our power from the earths dyno or are we getting the power by stealing from the power companies spiderweb of power distribution systems.

I mean that is the first thought that comes into the mind of any passer by.

They assume that the power must be stolen and LEVEL has cleared that up along with your reasons for having the inverter and not looping off the grid.

DO NOT CONNECT TO THE GRID. Very good SIR thank you.

So many will never give this a try til they know where the power in coming from and having fears of being charged with theft. Of course those of us who have gone beyond the Gov/School mental prison know that what is taught there is only half truths to keep the blind leading the blind.

Your system gets energy no different than a solar panel or a wind turbine, the energy is extracted and processed into your house and has NO CONNECTION TO THE GRID.

AH, I feel much better already.

The toroidal's, the inverter, the grounding rod questions are all being answered and repeat answered here on this thread with speed and joy.

Time to put our pennies together. In the coming mouths it should be interesting to see such a system operating. This would add to heighten our desire to make our own units.

Hitby is using grounding rods in another thread from this work and I will save that for over there. Also it might be of interest that a standard UPS box produces a sinwave and I have often thought that it might pass for pure sinewave.

This is due to it having a block transformer on the output. Have you ever thought about a UPS circuit as a possible source for a sinewave?

I guess it is not a pure sinewave, but I really don't know. I should check it on the scope and then I would not have to ask you that question that has been bugging me for sometime now.

This would permit some to have smaller systems if they could use the battery and UPS circuit to initiate 120vac, less grounding rods for apartment dwellers. All they would need would be some wire and smaller toroid's.

Bridgeport is where I buy all of my cores and is an excellent choice. I wind them myself. I like toroidal transformers on my projects because the losses are not so great.

I liked the video of using a length of conduit to pump water down like is used to drill a well for water. The ground can be hard sometimes especially here in Kansas where we have so much rock and shale. Hard, hard ground, they build lime stone houses out here.

The salt mines are all around here only 70 miles away and looked at the map but it is hard to tell. Just got put some rods in first.

How do you feel about a smaller version being shown?

Michael Rowland (Central Kansas)

[ewizard]

Hi Clarence, When I was just writing that last post I went looking to see what the current retail on my model inverter was and I wasn't seeing much out there. I even went to Xantrex.com but they don't seem to be making those anymore. I imagine you can Google around and probably find some at the solar off grid web sites that still have some. The one I've got is made to be grid tied if you want also so it can sell back to the grid and it's fully programmable with a built in LCD screen and buttons to set it up in a large variety of situations. I did see that Aims has a high end 12,000 watt ! inverter for less than what I paid for my 4000 watt inverter and with that kind of rating it might be even better than what I've got for high loads although I think the efficiency % was lower. Trace Engineering was either bought out by Xantrex or they merged quite some time ago and I suspect they have tried to stay competitive in a market that is difficult with all the low price Chinese inverters and thus they may have dropped the more expensive units. I do believe Aims has somewhat taken over that market but I wasn't seeing any Aims that are programmable like mine.

I was just looking at ground rods and such and thought I'd mention what I had on the other forum for those thinking about all the hard work of putting in ground rods. While I used PVC this youtube video shows what may be an even better setup that can make the process a lot easier and quicker. The last 8 foot ground rod I had to pound in with a sledge took me about an hour. This method I have used will cut that down a lot. Note this guy uses metal electrical conduit (cheap) to make his water drill. Just don't get caught doing this in California

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kpI8PFNYl4

[clarence]

In place of ground , grounding, would it be possible to put the ground lines into a lake or ocean, depending on what is more handy ?
Or even using tall areal grounding, as in some of the atmosphiric power projects ?
(tall poles high in the air, strung with many wires )

Andrew

Hello BobBrown,

I'll have to say that is out of my knowledge.
that is where someone can explore and achieve an answer.
Would like to know myself.

thanks

BTW: tesla with a unit VERY similar to this DID power the huge induction moter in his 1931 Pierce Arrow car.
across the back of it he had a 4 ' x 6 ' aluminum plate as his ambient energy source and history SAYS it worked. I would be pretty sure the way he attached it to the car was well insulated .
the whole thing was powered by a 6 volt batt i believe and in those days batt ground was POSITIVE not negative like today?
the field is open.

Clarence

[clarence]

Hi Clarence, glad you decided to try Energeticforum. As I mentioned in PM it may not be perfect here but it's generally a lot more friendly and definitely has moderation if needed. If by chance things go South here you still have that forum I setup you can use as we discussed in PM but you will probably get a lot more interaction here and may pick up some new people here that can contribute more so than you would on my rather isolated invitation only forum.

Since I've already got the most expensive component of this (I think the inverter would be the most costly anyway) I'm still looking seriously at replicating as time allows. At least I believe the true sine wave Trace / Xantrex 4000 watt inverter will be a component that can be substituted for the Aims. I doubt the magic is in the Aims itself My one concern is the difference in battery input voltage as the Trace I have requires 48 volts (at least 4 - 12V batteries in series or 8 6V in series) In fact here are a few comparisons between the 2 units:
Aims :
90% efficiency full load
95% efficiency 1/3 load
weight 16 pounds
retail cost $795.00

Trace (4000 watt):
96% efficiency
weight: 140 pounds
retail - not sure but I see some for $2800.00 - I think it is hard to find prices on them because people compare them to other inverters that cost far less while not realizing these are intended for full time use with off grid homes and situations requiring reliable high load power.

I'm not suggesting people buy the Trace /Xantrex as it is a serious expense but just sharing what I know if you eventually want something full time to handle high loads this unit can do that. Most other inverters you see on the shelves at your local Walmart or hardware store that claim 2000 or 3000 watt output will fry if run anywhere near that all the time. From what I know the Aims is much better than most of those cheaper units but just by the weight difference alone I know the hardware in it is not as heavy duty as the Trace. But I can assure you it is a lot easier to mount that Aims on the wall than the Trace

Hello ewizard, thanks again for you generosity and kindness.

all of the specs you show are real nice. I just did what I could for now.
your unit makes my mouth drool.!!
WOW.

BTW: where can one purchase that - I looked a while back couldn't find.

thanks again,

Clarence

[clarence]

@All, for those familiar with how houses are wired from the power lines, you will know well that you can't power a setup like this from the house mains power, with the phase wire going to one wire on the load and the other wire on the load going to ground. Check Clarence's schematic drawing to see what I am referring to. That will be what is called a ground loop. A ground loop current path will bypass a wattmeter and cause it to read wrong, and can even fool a house mains power meter as well. When you have a ground loop like that, the power is still coming from the mains, even if it doesn't show up on a watt meter at the input of the circuit or on the house mains power meter. Doing such a thing may also bring the power company down on you if they detect what is going on. Stick to the battery and inverter method as the power source, as that is the only way you can avoid a ground loop to the mains electrical power system. The one exception is you might be able to avoid such a problem when powering from the mains if you use an isolation transformer, but isolation transformers can be expensive and have a limited capacity as well.

Caution: Also beware that an inverter with an output of 120 volts or 240 Volts can kill you if you touch live wires, so don't build such a setup if you don't understand such things.
You need to take necessary safety precautions.

Hello LEVEL,

SPOT ON!!!!

thanks,

Clarence

[clarence]

Thank you Clarence for sharing information on your build.
In the Donald Smith Device thread post 225 you posted a thumbnail picture of a damaged Toroid did that picture come from a Barbosa Leal device?
Can you explain the Thumbnail?

Hello,

that photo was just to say that B&L did not use micro transformers as they purposely mislead people to believe.

that was one of what they actually used. mine is way better and more efficient!

simply to show they used TOROIDS.

Thanks,

Clarence

[ewizard]

Hi Clarence, glad you decided to try Energeticforum. As I mentioned in PM it may not be perfect here but it's generally a lot more friendly and definitely has moderation if needed. If by chance things go South here you still have that forum I setup you can use as we discussed in PM but you will probably get a lot more interaction here and may pick up some new people here that can contribute more so than you would on my rather isolated invitation only forum.

Since I've already got the most expensive component of this (I think the inverter would be the most costly anyway) I'm still looking seriously at replicating as time allows. At least I believe the true sine wave Trace / Xantrex 4000 watt inverter will be a component that can be substituted for the Aims. I doubt the magic is in the Aims itself My one concern is the difference in battery input voltage as the Trace I have requires 48 volts (at least 4 - 12V batteries in series or 8 6V in series) In fact here are a few comparisons between the 2 units:
Aims :
90% efficiency full load
95% efficiency 1/3 load
weight 16 pounds
retail cost $795.00

Trace (4000 watt):
96% efficiency
weight: 140 pounds
retail - not sure but I see some for $2800.00 - I think it is hard to find prices on them because people compare them to other inverters that cost far less while not realizing these are intended for full time use with off grid homes and situations requiring reliable high load power.

I'm not suggesting people buy the Trace /Xantrex as it is a serious expense but just sharing what I know if you eventually want something full time to handle high loads this unit can do that. Most other inverters you see on the shelves at your local Walmart or hardware store that claim 2000 or 3000 watt output will fry if run anywhere near that all the time. From what I know the Aims is much better than most of those cheaper units but just by the weight difference alone I know the hardware in it is not as heavy duty as the Trace. But I can assure you it is a lot easier to mount that Aims on the wall than the Trace

[level]

Don't use the mains electrical power to power this setup!

@All, for those familiar with how houses are wired from the power lines, you will know well that you can't power a setup like this from the house mains power, with the phase wire going to one wire on the load and the other wire on the load going to ground. Check Clarence's schematic drawing to see what I am referring to. That will be what is called a ground loop. A ground loop current path will bypass a wattmeter and cause it to read wrong, and can even fool a house mains power meter as well. When you have a ground loop like that, the power is still coming from the mains, even if it doesn't show up on a watt meter at the input of the circuit or on the house mains power meter. Doing such a thing may also bring the power company down on you if they detect what is going on. Stick to the battery and inverter method as the power source, as that is the only way you can avoid a ground loop to the mains electrical power system. The one exception is you might be able to avoid such a problem when powering from the mains if you use an isolation transformer, but isolation transformers can be expensive and have a limited capacity as well.

Caution: Also beware that an inverter with an output of 120 volts or 240 Volts can kill you if you touch live wires, so don't build such a setup if you don't understand such things.
You need to take necessary safety precautions.

[clarence]

Thanks Clarence,
Thank you for sharing here.

I'm glad to see this presented here for all to replicate. We live out in the country and I've been trying small tests with earth power and see a lot of return. I already have a small solar setup with inverter powered with bank of batteries in my shop. Want to add this system to it and run my small shop.

Did you try different ways to send and receive the power? Copper pipes, steel rods, copper cables, aluminum cables. Sorry my inquisitive mind experiments all possibilities. Even some I shouldn't.

Thanks for the help,
wantomake

Hello wantomake,

1. copper gives the best conductivity and degenerates the least.

2. what you need is to obtain the MOST square area surface contact with dirt . earth that you can get!

3. the area of contact with earth determines how much potential you ca
collect.

4. enough potential to make the Captor output voltage rms voltage match the inverter output rms voltage is what you need to achieve.

5. after you match the inverter rms voltage you will need MORE added ground source potential to start carrying loads.

meet all of those things and your home!

simple as that.

my pleasure Sir. thanks

Clarence

[ZeroMassInertia]

Damaged Toroid

Thank you Clarence for sharing information on your build.
In the Donald Smith Device thread your post 227 you posted a thumbnail picture of a damaged Toroid did that picture come from a Barbosa Leal device?
Can you explain the Thumbnail?

[BobBrown]

In place of ground , grounding, would it be possible to put the ground lines into a lake or ocean, depending on what is more handy ?
Or even using tall areal grounding, as in some of the atmosphiric power projects ?
(tall poles high in the air, strung with many wires )

Andrew

[clarence]

Hi Clarence
thanks for the swift reply
as im out on work in Macau China, I cannot test your set up
thats why I suggested but I will accomplish that when I come back to Philippines where I have a farm to plant those rods lol

as for captor less battery and charger / inverter with BL first design hope you can test also for starters like me

Hello totoalas,

yes B&L in their 2013 demonstration did power their toroid Captor with mains power which only consumed 0.10 amps by the toroids. and that was their point at that time. however the major power that lit their 6 ea 1000 watt lights come from the ground source that he was showing when he lifted and pulled on the green wire to get the audience attention! the phase of the mains he was using also was powering a small amout and that was reflected back thru the meter to the power company so that he was't cheating the power company. they have a SWER type utility system over there.
Single Wire Electrical Rurality.

this unit with the battery and inverter is its OWN SWER system. ground input by inverter neutral and then ground return as neutral with inverter phase. the powered return neutral receiving most of its power from the earth. you can test like that when you get back. since the actual mains power you would be using is reflected back through the meter to the utility company and you would be paying for what you use is legal but I would NOT
do it often. just imagine if you were a utility co and you found that somebody was using you for a Guinea pig and and then just flipping you a few quarters.I don't think they would be happy.

I think that's why the Brazilian power company created difficulties for Barbosa and Leal when they investigated and saw how their system could limit some of their Company revenues. I would be pissed.

that's why I love my unit. It's just me in my unpolluted world doing what I like with out disturbing any others as long as I'm here.


Thanks for listening.

Clarence

[wantomake]

utility mains

Hello totoalas,

you know since I don't live in the concrete jungle as you say, a city dwelling proposition hadn't really crossed my mind and I would think that B&L didn't think about either.

its not just "a ground" that is needed for this kind of unit to work properly,
it needs to be one entirely independent from any form of utility mains possible linkage or all you will be doing is using their grounding to feed the captor neutral and be by passing any of their meters to do so. I'm pretty sure that is illegal.

If you can find any totally isolated ground source that has sufficient square surface area of conductivity to provide enough earth potential to the Captor
ground return looped about the #4AWG wire ---that would work (a lot of
words - but needed to keep the point clear).

the square area would have to be large enough and provide enough potential
to keep the Captor output rms voltage value steady and matching the inverter rms voltage output at the same time. that in a nut shell is what you are trying to achieve. accomplish THAT and you are on the inside looking OUT!

I do hope I am getting the information across so as to be clear to members.
If I am not succeeding just let me know and I will go at it again.

always remember the name of this unit is "energy from the ground"

thanks,

Clarence

Thanks Clarence,
Thank you for sharing here.

I'm glad to see this presented here for all to replicate. We live out in the country and I've been trying small tests with earth power and see a lot of return. I already have a small solar setup with inverter powered with bank of batteries in my shop. Want to add this system to it and run my small shop.

Did you try different ways to send and receive the power? Copper pipes, steel rods, copper cables, aluminum cables. Sorry my inquisitive mind experiments all possibilities. Even some I shouldn't.

Thanks for the help,
wantomake