Barbosa and Leal Devices - Info and Replication Details

[clarence]

Thanks

I think this needs an incryption not a translation from the other side lol ...happy to note the healthy discussion.... thanks to Mr Mscoffman and MH

totoalas

Thanks totoalas,

thanks much!

Clarence

[level]

From what I can gather from what Clarence has been saying so far, it seems that Clarence's setup does not self run, and Clarence appears to have done very little longer term testing to try to understand better how his setup actually does perform. When a couple of us here asked if Clarence could do a few very simple tests where the device is left to run for a reasonable amount of time, such as 24 hours or so while self looping, to really understand better how long his setup can maintain its battery voltage, Clarence has not responded. Clarence also then suggested that if people want to understand how his setup performs they should build their own. Considering the cost of the setup and the fact that you have to put a whole lot of ground rods in, it is reasonable in my mind that people should be able to have a clear idea first how Clarence's own setup is actually performing.

If Clarence's setup could self run, then I would see no reason that Clarence would not be happy to just fire up his device and leave it running for 12 or 24 hours or even longer while making periodic battery voltage measurements. Certainly that would take almost no effort on Clarence's part to do. I can only gather from this that Clarence's setup is not a self runner, and for whatever reason Clarence does not want to come out and admit this. Gather from this what you will. I don't understand it.

In engineering there is a concept of diminishing returns. A person could keep adding more and more ground rods beyond a certain point of say, for argument's sake, 40 or 50 ground rods. As you increase the ground rods in increments of 5 or 10 up to say 40 ground rods you may see increases in performance, but any increases in ground rods beyond that may only make a small difference, or no difference. It is also possible that people at different locations on the globe could get better results with less ground rods, as location or soil type might be a factor as well, as has been suggested here already. Another possibility to consider is that performance could possibly improve, or fall off, over time at the same location. This was something that mr. Thomas Bearden has mentioned seeing, where performance began to improve over time for an over unity device he was investigating, so the location appeared to be slowly getting 'conditioned'.

Good luck with your experiments everyone!

[BroMikey]

When a couple of us here asked if Clarence could do a few very simple tests where the device is left to run for a reasonable amount of time, such as 24 hours or so while self looping, to really understand better how long his setup can maintain its battery voltage, Clarence has not responded.

Good luck with your experiments everyone!

I thought he said when it rained was the only time the power dropped off. The battery would drop in charge if he didn't lessen the loads as the rain seemed to diminished output. Also he said he shut it off if he left the house after it had run 4-5 hours?

I never heard him say he never ran it 24 hrs.

If it works for 5 hrs it will work forever. I think Clarence has answered everyone very well.

Hey Level did you build this one? You seem to know so much about this it seemed like you must have built one of these devices before. And if so did it work right?

Either way you are way ahead of me on these designs.

Mikey

[BroMikey]

If Clarence's setup could self run, then I would see no reason that Clarence would not be happy to just fire up his device and leave it running for 12 or 24 hours or even longer while making periodic battery voltage measurements.

This seems a little personal, if i had one of these devices I would not leave it run while I was gone if my wife was home. That is me personally. I would not do that, I would make sure it worked well first and maybe run a small heater with it or AC unit, but not unattended. I have to work and I just would not want to come home to a toasty setup after all my hard work.

That is a personal matter.

[level]

Hello BroMikey. I think what I have said is a reasonable assessment of the situation. If I have said anything that is not accurate, Clarence is free to correct me. I am very open minded about the concept of free energy, and regularly conduct my own experiments, but like many other people I am busy so I am really only interested in putting time and energy into things which can at least stand up to some preliminary basic testing. The only way to tell if something really works or not is to do some honest testing and put it through its paces. If someone appears to be avoiding such basic things, then you have to wonder what their real motivation is. Think about it. Wishful thinking or excuses doesn't really help anyone. If a person does some honest testing and it works, then great. Let's hear the results. I am all ears. If it doesn't do well in those basic tests, then so be it. We also need to hear those results. A person who is interested in trying to get some real understanding will want to know the actual test results no matter what they indicate. Clarence is free to do and say whatever he wants, but I am also free to express my own opinion. If you see that as some sort of personal agenda, then you need to stop and think again.

[citfta]

Hi level,
I can tell you from personal experience you are wasting your breath trying to have an intelligent discussion with Bro Mikey. When I raised those same points about the Gerard Morin generator I was told by Bro Mikey I was not smart enough to change a tire on a car. Then I was told I had too much education and then I was told I didn't have enough education. He doesn't know how to have a discussion about the technical aspects of a project. He only knows how to make personal attacks against someone that tries to ask legitimate questions.

Now as to what Clarence is doing, I think it is well worth looking into because it reminds me of a man from western KY. Nathan Stubblefield was powering his home and also had a telephone system the whole community used that was all powered by connections to the ground. He went around the country demonstrating his telephone system trying to get investors to back him so he could start selling them. Some bad business experiences turned him into a bitter man and he went home to continue his experiments until his death. It was told by those that found him dead that his small cabin was toasty warm in the middle of winter with no apparent source of heat other than a couple of strange parabolic mirrors that were aimed at each other from opposite sides of the room. It was also told that the whole hillside around his cabin would be lit up at night without any apparent source where the light was coming from. Look him up it this interests you. He was a very interesting fellow. There is a whole lot more about him that I don't recall right now and some of what I posted may be a little wrong because I am posting strictly from memory.

I was somewhat skeptical about the claims of this device until I remembered Stubblefield. I also recall that Tesla had done some research into the idea of getting energy from the ground. I am not saying I believe what Clarence has is the real deal but I think it could be.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[Wistiti]

The best way to know it still remain to try it!

With that said, i think the most expensive part of the project is the grounding part... but it seem to be just a mater of an area in contact with the ground.
Clarence use a proportion of 1/15... and use ground rod.
I think evrething else until it give good ground conexion will work. Tariel use car radiator but i think it could be iron sheet, bare cooper wire, metalic pipe, etc...
The idea is to keep the 1 to 15 grounding surface as Clarence do.

For those how do not want to replicate now, just wait... Im pretty sure we are many how will be much than happy to share the good or bad result... i meen as long the thread stay respectful.

Ciao!

[level]

The best way to know it still remain to try it!

Hello Wistiti. That might be true if no one has one already built, but in this case Clarence has one already built and all he would have to do is run some simple longer duration tests and tell people honestly how his setup performed in those tests.

[genessc]

Stubblefield is cool. Here is John bedinis Old page that he used to maintain back when I started looking at his stuff around age 26... almost 40 now.

JOHN BEDINI'S COLLECTION OF FREE ENERGY MACHINES

Theres some stubblefield stuff in there... among many different schematics of the different types of pulse motors bedini and his pals built.

Stubblefield

Enjoy! (brings back memories of being frustrated for about the first 6 months trying to get his "simple" SG to work... along with finally some satisfaction that it was running.... )

Gene

p.s. I second the comment on bromikey. Best to just block him so all his posts are blocked from coming thru. That guy is not about results, hes about mouthing off. Reminds me of Hector on Evgray...

Hi level,
I can tell you from personal experience you are wasting your breath trying to have an intelligent discussion with Bro Mikey. When I raised those same points about the Gerard Morin generator I was told by Bro Mikey I was not smart enough to change a tire on a car. Then I was told I had too much education and then I was told I didn't have enough education. He doesn't know how to have a discussion about the technical aspects of a project. He only knows how to make personal attacks against someone that tries to ask legitimate questions.

Now as to what Clarence is doing, I think it is well worth looking into because it reminds me of a man from western KY. Nathan Stubblefield was powering his home and also had a telephone system the whole community used that was all powered by connections to the ground. He went around the country demonstrating his telephone system trying to get investors to back him so he could start selling them. Some bad business experiences turned him into a bitter man and he went home to continue his experiments until his death. It was told by those that found him dead that his small cabin was toasty warm in the middle of winter with no apparent source of heat other than a couple of strange parabolic mirrors that were aimed at each other from opposite sides of the room. It was also told that the whole hillside around his cabin would be lit up at night without any apparent source where the light was coming from. Look him up it this interests you. He was a very interesting fellow. There is a whole lot more about him that I don't recall right now and some of what I posted may be a little wrong because I am posting strictly from memory.

I was somewhat skeptical about the claims of this device until I remembered Stubblefield. I also recall that Tesla had done some research into the idea of getting energy from the ground. I am not saying I believe what Clarence has is the real deal but I think it could be.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[BroMikey]

Hello BroMikey. I think what I have said is a reasonable assessment of the situation. If I have said anything that is not accurate, Clarence is free to correct me. I am very open minded about the concept of free energy, and regularly conduct my own experiments, but like many other people I am busy so I am really only interested in putting time and energy into things which can at least stand up to some preliminary basic testing. The only way to tell if something really works or not is to do some honest testing and put it through its paces. If someone appears to be avoiding such basic things, then you have to wonder what their real motivation is. Think about it. Wishful thinking or excuses doesn't really help anyone. If a person does some honest testing and it works, then great. Let's hear the results. I am all ears. If it doesn't do well in those basic tests, then so be it. We also need to hear those results. A person who is interested in trying to get some real understanding will want to know the actual test results no matter what they indicate. Clarence is free to do and say whatever he wants, but I am also free to express my own opinion. If you see that as some sort of personal agenda, then you need to stop and think again.

I think you are well within your rights Level. I was trying to avoid an argument hoping that Clarence would chime in and correct any errors that were posted.

It is good to have a Q&A time if you are serious about building one of these gadgets, in fact before you build it all of the questions you have raised are in order.

Level here is what I am getting from your last assumptions. Basically you think that maybe the device does not always put out hour after hour based on the assumption that Clarence turns it off. I am not saying that any of your reasons are wrong either.

Okay so what would be happening then? Yes more experimenting will always be needed but let's say the device runs 4-5 hours running a refrigerator plus turning on the Microwave periodically.

Would there be enough power in that table top battery to run a frig 5 hrs? And if so how many amp hours would that be? Let's see 120vac X2.5amps= or 25amps @12vdc.

How long could that small battery give 25amps?

Okay I am sure you understand my thinking here and you are smart enough to know it wouldn't go over an hour or so before it crashed because a 70ah battery has to be discharged at no more than 1-2 amps per hour to get the full rating. If this battery were discharged at 10amps per hour the stats say about 3 hours before 12vdc is reached.

Okay so the battery could not have provided the power needed to run a frig for 5 hrs. So when Clarence shuts off the frig the battery charges back up in 12 hours he said, I think that is what Clarence said but I am not real sure.

All of this while it is raining outside so Clarence wants to put more posts into the ground to compensate for this problem during rain.

We can't just assume that the earth currents are charging the battery and then the monkey flips the switch on for 5 hours and back off again. Largely because the battery can not run that frig 5 hours.

I am interested in seeing any experiment through and Clarence has been kind enough to share all of the positive and negative results but that we need not experiment to get huge amounts of power, just build it like it is.

And like John Bedini said that after you build it then change it and many people have. What Clarence is saying is that improvement is always on the horizon but no one need to experiment to get great results.

Just build it. If you personally don't want to chance it then leave it to someone who has $2000 to test it. We spend billions on oil.

Someone has $2000 to try it, improve it, for pete sakes. We are talking trifles. That is my free will offering on the subject.

If you want to keep squeezing out another answer from Clarence and not build one then this is unacceptable to me. The purpose is to get our foot in the door and Clarence has shown one of the ways.

Why close the door if you are set on replicating. Why hurling assumptions that show your true intent. Build one and if you have no desire to build one then that is okay as well.

How many millions are we spends on building gasoline pumps eery year?

How many billions on bio-fuels? $2000? is an insult to our intelligence.

Build it then improve if, isn't that what we have done with automobiles?

Please don't insult my intelligence that $2000 is too much.

We all spend that and more on a car each year or a boat or a 4 wheeler.

I heard JOHN BEDINI say he spent all experimenting, building, improving. JOHN was insulted many times by people who wanted to power their homes for free on free energy.

People who are series spend the money if they have it. Let's see 2 packs of cigarettes per day = $10 X 200 days = $2000 oh but that is to expensive.

See what I mean? People spend $20-30 a day on beer.

Or they spend $100 a week on the lotto.

These are my personal views on our quest for free energy and are not meant to insult your person. Yes we all have a right to our own personal views I agree.

May each of the serious inventors find it.

Mikey

[BroMikey]

Hi level,
I can tell you from personal experience you are wasting your breath trying to have an intelligent discussion with Bro Mikey. When I raised those same points about the Gerard Morin generator I was told by Bro Mikey I was not smart enough to change a tire on a car. Then I was told I had too much education and then I was told I didn't have enough education. He doesn't know how to have a discussion about the technical aspects of a project. He only knows how to make personal attacks against someone that tries to ask legitimate questions.


Respectfully,
Carroll

Thats not nice.

[BroMikey]

Stubblefield is cool. Here is John bedinis Old page that he used to maintain back when I started looking at his stuff around age 26... almost 40 now.

JOHN BEDINI'S COLLECTION OF FREE ENERGY MACHINES

Theres some stubblefield stuff in there... among many different schematics of the different types of pulse motors bedini and his pals built.

Stubblefield

Enjoy! (brings back memories of being frustrated for about the first 6 months trying to get his "simple" SG to work... along with finally some satisfaction that it was running.... )

Gene

p.s. I second the comment on bromikey. Best to just block him so all his posts are blocked from coming thru. That guy is not about results, hes about mouthing off. Reminds me of Hector on Evgray...

So everybody has a right to speak his mind but BroMikey? Sounds socialistic to me. And you guys don't like my comments so you block them? That explains why you won't answer my questions. I asked the wrong ones, like, "DID YOU BUILD IT?" big mistake not answer just block Mikey.

[ZeroMassInertia]

Here is a cut and paste from Pat Kelly Chapt. 3 see page 2 post#36 for link .
The present circuit may have to be optimized to get additional power, in addition the primary and secondary winding directions and connections are difficult to get correct.
There is also speculation of a Hemispherical device that can trap electrons from the air?
Nothing ventured nothing gained


One very interesting feature is that the continuous-loop coil formed by wire 4 in the diagram below, is literally, only two turns of wire. The power-gaining mechanism, amazingly, is the earth wire (shown in blue) which is merely wrapped around wire 4 and not directly connected to it as the electron-transfer link is by induction. With this arrangement, the current circulating in the closed loop wire 4, attracts more electrons from the ground, flowing through the wrapped connection of wire 5, into wire 4, augmenting the current flow there by a major amount. Wire 3 can have an alternating voltage applied to it in order to get alternating current in wire 4, but please understand that the current flowing in wire 4 is not the result of the current in wire 3. If the current in wire 3 is DC, then the current in wire 4 will be DC as this is not a conventional transformer, but instead, it is an electron trap, operating in an entirely different way.
The electron trap can be connected in an AC circuit of this type:
Here, the earth wire 5 is wrapped around the continuous loop wire 4, feeding it additional electrons captured from the ground. The ends of wire 4 are connected together to form the loop, and that connection also forms the positive side of the output (where a DC output is being produced). The magnetic field produced by the current flowing in wire 3, acts on the electron flow coming from the earth, but as it does not provide any of the electric power flowing in wire loop 4, the current flowing in wire 3 can be tiny, without affecting the power output.

In their patent WO 2013/104043, also of 18th July 2013, they show several different ways of connecting their electron trap in a useful circuit. For example, like this: FIG 1
Here, the battery 13, is used to power an ordinary inverter 12, which produces a high alternating voltage, in this case, at very low power. That voltage is applied to the wire 3.1 to 3.2 of the electron trap, creating an oscillating magnetic field, which creates an oscillating inflow of electrons into the closed loop wire (4), which creates an amplified electrical output at the same frequency – typically 50 Hz or 60 Hz as those are the common mains frequencies. That amplified power output from the electron trap 14, is passed along wire 18 to an ordinary diode bridge 10, and the pulsing DC from the bridge is smoothed and used to replace the battery input to inverter 12. The battery is now switched out of the circuit and, as well as making the overall circuit self-powered, the power coming from the electron trap is used to recharge the battery if it needs recharging (and/or, perhaps, to charge the batteries of an electric car). Because the electron trap needs almost no input power at all, the input power to the inverter is very small, and so a good deal of additional AC power can be drawn off through cable 17, and used to drive powerful electrical loads, with no electrical power being needed from the battery. Being self-powered, the COP value for the circuit is infinity.

[kenssurplus]

Inverter substitution

Here is a cut and paste from Pat Kelly Chapt. 3 see page 2 post#36 for link .
The present circuit may have to be optimized to get additional power, in addition the primary and secondary winding directions and connections are difficult to get correct. <snip>
.....
</snip>
Because the electron trap needs almost no input power at all, the input power to the inverter is very small, and so a good deal of additional AC power can be drawn off through cable 17, and used to drive powerful electrical loads, with no electrical power being needed from the battery. Being self-powered, the COP value for the circuit is infinity.

If this is indeed true, then I don't see why there needs to be a high capacity pure sine wave inverter, if a pure sine wave can be produced by starting with a cheaper modified square wave inverter and then run that into a Rotoverter or a MagAmp. The outputs from these, If I understand correctly, are putting out pure sine wave from whatever type wave is input into them.
If the "electron trap" needs only a very small amount of power, then why the need for the high capacity inverter? Perhaps I have missed something or not understood.

[kenssurplus]

I made the above post realizing that suggesting what I did would deviate from the 100% replication. At $2000.00 for a 100% Clarence replication, I can't make a 100% replication. I can only use those things that I have on hand. Contrary to what BroMikey would think is the norm, I don't spend 100s of dollars on cigs and beer per month. I must make a disability check cover the entire month for a family of three.

There is always a different way to skin the proverbial cat. Yes, by altering the recipe, we might fail, but like was mentioned by ZeroMassInertia :

Nothing ventured nothing gained

At least we will either have another way that doesn't work, or we will have broadened the scope of operable conditions and parts. If you think that this dilutes the purity of the thread, and the purity of the device under discussion, then I will bow out and let those with thousands of dollars extra with nothing to put it to, build and discuss this device.